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U.S. 2012 Election

On Nov 6 Who Will Win President Obama or Mitt Romney ?

  • President Obama

    Votes: 39 61.9%
  • Mitt Romney

    Votes: 24 38.1%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .
If you want to talk irony, one talking head I was watching the other day pointed out that the big GOP, Tea Party, Conservative talking point is that Obama wants to turn the US into a European style Socialist economy, by spending and taxing.

However, if you look at the trend in Europe over this past year or so, they are moving faster than economically possible towards austerity. Sever cuts in spending, reducing government, and eliminating social programs. Exactly the same things that the Tea Party, The GOP and the Conservatives are trying to push through.

Isn't it Ironic? Don't ya think?
 
Yeah, complete and utter bankruptcy... economic and as a nation (Yes, we're talking about you Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland) will do that.  You might note that these austerity moves have been mild at best, and that they have brought the spoiled and entitled masses to the streets to protest their not being able to retire at 55 anymore. 

As Mr. Campbell said earlier, when did the American dream become envy?
 
I've never seen President Obama decrying the rich. I've seen him decrying a system where their secretaries pay a higher rate of tax. He's highlighted, and many Americans I suspect agree that that isn't right.

I suspect that a Republican President would have likely intervened in Libya as well, and would also highlight that the USA made a point of not taking the lead, nor seeking to do anything than support the strongly popular but totally outgunned rebel movement with the UN sanctioned aim of ending violence and protecting the civilian population.

I have no doubt that a Republican President would have given the very same orders to kill Osama bin Laden, even if it does generate some discussion about the extrajudicial killing. Except no one really had a problem with that - it's the Yemeni-American cleric, al-Alwaki, that is the more problematic case - but it's in large part "the left" decrying that.

President Obama followed the advice of his military leaders by putting more soldiers in Afghanistan. I would imagine that McCain would have done the same. Of course, if the GOP hadn't started the ridiculous, useless Iraq War and turned Afghanistan into a neglected sideshow, that might not have been necessary in the first place.

As for the Nobel Prize, well, that was pretty ridiculous. But hey, he didn't award it to himself.

So, just curious, other than some hyperbole, was there a point here?

Bird_Gunner45 said:
I wonder if anyone will see the irony in Obama being worth $10.5 million but decrying the rich and implying that they are the problem... Or the fact he won a Nobel Peace prize for not doing anything, but then went on to start bombing Libya, putting more troops into Afghanistan, not closing Gitmo, and killing Bin Laden by violating a nations sovereignty... nah, that's right wing propaganda!
 
Redeye said:
So, just curious, other than some hyperbole, was there a point here?

There was no obvious or intended exaggeration (the meaning of hyperbole).... The point was that Obama is arguing for economic equality while earning several times more than any average American. 

As for your discussion on the Republicans, what exactly is your point... one can speculate all one wants about such thing... hey, maybe if McCain had won the election they'd have found the cure for cancer or invaded Iran and there wouldn't have been an attack.  That's hyperbole, obviously, but your final statement is asinine, and your insistence on bringing Republicans into the discussion demonstrates your own political blindness. 

The secretary paid less tax due to investment taxation laws, which were explained in Mr Campbell's post, and Obama has always played himself off as the man fighting the big man for the little man, talking of taxing the rich more, etc. 

As for Hyperbole, you may want to look at the quote below, from yourself, for a perfect example of it

"President Obama is setting the stage for quite a contest this year. He's highlighting obstructionism and corruption brilliantly. Whoever crafted this message and this speech is a genius, because while he's not actually pointing partisan fingers, anyone watching will get the subtext right away".

 
Bird_Gunner45 said:
There was no obvious or intended exaggeration (the meaning of hyperbole).... The point was that Obama is arguing for economic equality while earning several times more than any average American. 

So what? Plenty of rich people are involved in causes that don't directly impact them. Plenty of people, regardless of wealth, take interest in and get involved in causes that don't directly impact them. There's no requirement that he "not be rich" to take an interest in ameliorating the plight of those less well off.

Bird_Gunner45 said:
As for your discussion on the Republicans, what exactly is your point... one can speculate all one wants about such thing... hey, maybe if McCain had won the election they'd have found the cure for cancer or invaded Iran and there wouldn't have been an attack.  That's hyperbole, obviously, but your final statement is asinine, and your insistence on bringing Republicans into the discussion demonstrates your own political blindness. 

My point is that your initial statements suggest that in some way things would be different were President Obama were not President - that would be if the GOP candidate had one. And that's ridiculous.

Bird_Gunner45 said:
The secretary paid less tax due to investment taxation laws, which were explained in Mr Campbell's post, and Obama has always played himself off as the man fighting the big man for the little man, talking of taxing the rich more, etc. 

Laws which have some merit, as well, but of which the average American probably wasn't aware, and particularly in the context of the current fiscal position of the United States might find in some way obscene or perverse. I don't know if you realize this, but most voters are "the little man", and politically, that's what a candidate does. The real test, of course, is whether they support policies that do so.

Bird_Gunner45 said:
As for Hyperbole, you may want to look at the quote below, from yourself, for a perfect example of it

"President Obama is setting the stage for quite a contest this year. He's highlighting obstructionism and corruption brilliantly. Whoever crafted this message and this speech is a genius, because while he's not actually pointing partisan fingers, anyone watching will get the subtext right away".

Okay then.
 
Redeye said:
I've never seen President Obama decrying the rich. I've seen him decrying a system where their secretaries pay a higher rate of tax. He's highlighted, and many Americans I suspect agree that that isn't right.

The argument that you are throwing out here is a bit disingenuous.  Warren Buffet et al don't pay a high tax rate as they don't usually pay themselves a large salary but rather make money off of investments and stock options.  Those are taxed as capital gains which are taxed at a fairly low rate(set to rise in 2013/14).  Despite this the "rich" or the the top 10 percent pay 68 percent of all income tax. The bottom 50 percent pay just 3-5% percent of the taxes.  I thought we had gone over that already in this thread?

The American tax system is a boondoggle of epic proportions that one can't blame on Obama as no administration has had the balls to reform the system.  It has many loopholes that all wage categories can use to pay less overall tax.  The well off are just able to take advantage of that by being able to afford professionals to do their taxes.

I would argue rather than "soaking the rich" that they get some balls and simplify their tax system to eliminate tax loopholes.  They are already set to raise capital gains in the coming years so there is no need to raise it higher(unless of course you want to discourage investment).
 
I'm not really a fan of estate taxes, but it's interesting to see how they're argued over in the USA - it seems in a lot of comments that the average "John Q. Public" thinks that somehow estate taxes impact them, while they generally have no impact except on estates of considerable value. You'd think that of all taxes, assessed in terms of economic impact, it would be the most benign. Like any taxes, though, tax rates/incidence have to be balanced against potential for avoidance. Mitt Romney's efforts to avoid taxes are of course becoming an issue in his campaign efforts.

MJP said:
The argument that you are throwing out here is a bit disingenuous.  Warren Buffet et al don't pay a high tax rate as they don't usually pay themselves a large salary but rather make money off of investments and stock options.  Those are taxed as capital gains which are taxed at a fairly low rate(set to rise in 2013/14).  Despite this the "rich" or the the top 10 percent pay 68 percent of all income tax. The bottom 50 percent pay just 3-5% percent of the taxes.  I thought we had gone over that already in this thread?

The American tax system is a boondoggle of epic proportions that one can't blame on Obama as no administration has had the balls to reform the system.  It has many loopholes that all wage categories can use to pay less overall tax.  The well off are just able to take advantage of that by being able to afford professionals to do their taxes.

I would argue rather than "soaking the rich" that they get some balls and simplify their tax system to eliminate tax loopholes.  They are already set to raise capital gains in the coming years so there is no need to raise it higher(unless of course you want to discourage investment).
 
I agree that the tax system in the US is broke... as per the link (by CBS news so it can't be brushed off as Fox propaganda) 43% of Americans pay absolutely no income tax.  That's nil, nadda, zero, zilch, nothing.... 13% or 14% of $20,000,000 a year is $2.8 million... or $2.8 million more than all those 43% put together.  I tend to agree with the author of this article in that excluding a large number of income tax payers from the process it creates a system in which the "little man" simply expects things without paying for them, than ask the persons paying tax to just pay more since they can afford it. 

I understand that those 43% still pay taxes in them form of goods and services taxes, though if it's like in Canada there's likely a GST refund sort of program.  Or they live in one of the many states in which sales tax is 0%. 

I also agree that if Obama is rich or not is not particularly relevant to his ability to help the poorer folks... it's just ironic that the media goes through Romney's records but not Obama's... having been an accountant, I would be willing to be that Obama also looked for loopholes in the tax codes... as we all do.  If you scrutinize and judge one, scrutinize and judge all... that's my point.
 
Assuming Warren Buffett makes most of his investment income from corporations that have profits measured in the millions, those profits are taxed somewhere around 35% before Buffett pays his 15% on what is left after it flows through.  I doubt his secretary's federal tax rate is that high.

Victor Davis Hanson publishes an article or two a week pointing out the absurdities, contradictions, and outright lies of the Obama administration - I can't be bothered to link or repeat them or say/write identical things any more.  No amount of Obama apologia can obscure the disconnect between what Obama promises/claims and what he has done, or his tiresome hectoring/lecturing/blame-mongering.  Not much of Obama's economic agenda is really an agenda of the US political centre.  I mean, really - the man stands up and prominently claims credit for oil production which has happened _despite_ his policies rather than _because_ of his policies and people are supposed to pretend he is an honest and well-intentioned intelligent statesman.  No way, no how, never.
 
The Cato Institute has an interesting response to the SOTU address:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQdwr-xNJIU&feature=player_embedded

and some further follow up (includes embedded links):

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/the-cato-institute-responds-to-president-obamas-state-of-the-union-address/#comment-21869

The Cato Institute Responds to President Obama’s State-of-the-Union Address
January 25, 2012 by Dan Mitchell

I’ve already bragged that the Cato Institute is America’s best think tank, highlighting the fact that we took the lead in battling against Obama’s faux stimulus at a time when many were dispirited and reluctant to fight big government.

I’m biased, of course, so I’ll understand if you discount what I say. But I hope you’ll agree that my colleagues have put together an excellent video response to the President’s state-of-the-union speech.


As part of my contribution to the video, beginning around 6:35, I debunk the President’s class-warfare tax agenda by citing IRS data from the 1980s to explain that higher tax rates don’t necessarily mean higher tax revenue.

After a night’s sleep, here are a few additional observations on the President’s remarks.

I was disappointed, but not surprised, that he repeated the economically foolish assertion that Warren Buffett pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.

I also was not surprised that he didn’t say much about jobs and the economy. These four charts show he doesn’t have much to brag about.

It was also noteworthy that he didn’t spend much time talking about Obamacare, which suggests that White House pollsters understand that government-run healthcare isn’t very popular.

It was equally revealing that he didn’t spend much time on the so-called income inequality issue. Redistribution was implicit in what he said, to be sure, but the Occupy-Wall-Street crowd is probably disappointed that he didn’t explicitly embrace their agenda. More evidence that the pollsters played a big role in this speech.

I’m definitely not surprised that he talked about eliminating Osama bin Laden. Kudos to the Commander-in-Chief.

I was amazed that he had the gall to say “no bailouts,” particularly given his support for TARP, the Dodd-Frank bailout bill, and the giveaway to GM and the auto unions. And if the GM bailout is supposed to be a success, I’d hate to see his definition of failure.

And I was stunned that he could talk about the housing meltdown and mortgage crisis without mentioning the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae, or Freddie Mac. Sort of like analyzing World War II and pretending Germany and Japan didn’t exist.

Since most of the previous observation are critical, I want to stress that I’m not being partisan. I also was disappointed in the Republican response. Was the GOP smart to showcase a governor who was part of the big-spending Bush Administration? Especially one who has said nice things about the value-added tax?

I even was a bit disappointed in Governor Daniels’ remarks. He focused a lot on means-testing for entitlements, but that’s the wrong way of reforming the programs. Such policies impose higher implicit marginal tax rates on people who save and invest during their working years.

If we’re going to reform entitlements, do it the right way.
 
He's the only President that has been endorsed by the Communist Party USA. No I dont listen to Glen Beck. President Obama recently planned to give the Russians the USN's SM-3 missile data.He is about to gut the defense budget to pay for more social spending.His energy policy is anti-coal,anti-gasoline,anti-nuke and his environmentalist supporters dont think he has gone far enough.He decides to kill Keystone but who benefits ? Warren Buffet's Norfolk Southern railroad.I will be the first to volunteer to help the man pack and put him on a plane to Hawaii.

http://www.examiner.com/obama-administration-in-los-angeles/the-communist-party-usa-has-endorsed-their-friend-barack-obama-for-2012
 
tomahawk6 said:
He's the only President that has been endorsed by the Communist Party USA.

And Ron Paul was endorsed by Stormfront. So what?

tomahawk6 said:
No I dont listen to Glen Beck.

Rush? Mark Levin? Someone similar?

tomahawk6 said:
President Obama recently planned to give the Russians the USN's SM-3 missile data.

A missile that the quick scan of sources says doesn't even work? Okay then. I can't find a source article (Heritage and other sources cite among other places the Washington Times, which is slightly more credible than the National Enquirer), and thus I can't see the actual context to comment on this much.

tomahawk6 said:
He is about to gut the defense budget to pay for more social spending.

He's cutting the defense budget like most budgets. Since it's something like a quarter of the federal government's spending, it has to be cut. And you'd be hard-pressed to find many serious arguments that there isn't room for lots of fat trimming there.

tomahawk6 said:
His energy policy is anti-coal,anti-gasoline,anti-nuke and his environmentalist supporters dont think he has gone far enough.He decides to kill Keystone but who benefits ? Warren Buffet's Norfolk Southern railroad.I will be the first to volunteer to help the man pack and put him on a plane to Hawaii.

You know, if you're going to make these sorts of claims, maybe I can offer you a suggestion that you know what you're talking about. For one thing, the railway in question is Burlington Northern Santa Fe, not Norfolk Southern. As cupper opined, and I think he's correct, KXL was killed for now because of the way the GOP tried to force it through. It's going to happen down the road. And yeah, it'll probably be well-timed for his re-election campaign. At least you're not trotting out birther nonsense, I was waiting for that.

tomahawk6 said:
http://www.examiner.com/obama-administration-in-los-angeles/the-communist-party-usa-has-endorsed-their-friend-barack-obama-for-2012

As I said, lots of organizations endorse lots of people. And sometimes those endorsements aren't groups one wants to be associated with, but they have that whole "First Amendment" thing going for them.
 
tomahawk6 said:
President Obama recently planned to give the Russians the USN's SM-3 missile data.

Okay, so I found a mirror of the Washington Times article here: http://americanreport09.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/obama-plan-to-give-sensitive-data-to-russia-on-the-sm-3-anti-missile-interceptor/

So, let's have a read, a critical read, shall we? Go read the article itself, so I don't have to quote the whole thing and can focus on the important stuff - but do read it all, so I'm not looking like I'm quotemining.

What did the guy questioned by the Senate say about plans to give any info on the SM-3? Well, according to the article, this:

"Mr. McFaul then sought to play down security concerns by stating that Russia probably learned details of the SM-3 speed from technical intelligence from monitoring tests.

He said the administration does not intend to give the Russians telemetry data – signals sent to ground stations during test flights – about missile-defense interceptors or target vehicles."

Shall I translate? The most detailed and sensitive telemetry data won't be shared. And, no shock to me, the Russians monitor the testing pretty closely to get their own data. Okay. Well, are there efforts ongoing to make exceptions to share more information? Let's see what the Times says:

"Mr. McFaul said a special security committee that can waive rules against providing classified U.S. data to foreign governments has not been asked to make an exception for SM-3 velocity burnout data."

So, no, there are in fact no proceedings in place to change standards on shared info.

Well, wait... they're going to let Russians watch the tests! See here:

"However, he said the National Disclosure Policy Committee (NDPC) has approved an exception for Russia to watch an SM-3 missile-defense flight test. Earlier, it approved waivers for Russian viewing of flight tests for a ground-based interceptor (GBI) and Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) missile in 2007 and 2010. Viewing flight tests normally is restricted to prevent foreign intelligence services from learning classified capabilities from U.S. weapons."

So this is nothing new. That last statement is a little yellow journalism. Yeah, viewing are "normally" restricted, but we've shown the Russians this stuff before. Including, notably, under a previous administration.

Carrying on:

"Mr. McFaul further explained in written responses to Mr. Kirk that a decision to provide velocity burnout data would not violate assurances provided to the Senate last year that no U.S. missile telemetry data would be given to Russia under the New START arms treaty. Telemetry data, he said, originates onboard a missile and is encrypted.

“Velocity burn out (VBO) is a performance specification that is readily observed and confirmed by land-based, sea-based, and/or space-based sensors,” Mr. McFaul said."

So, a reiteration about what won't be shared, and a statement that the "sensitive stuff" the Russians could pretty easily monitor anyhow.

More to the point though, why's this an issue? Well, if you remember, the Russians are a little pissed about a ballistic missile defense system being constructed in their backyard that basically ruins their nuclear deterrent. Since the whole ABM program started the US has been trying to convince the Russians that in fact it's to contain rogue states, not so much to deal with Russia. And frankly, given the size of the Russian arsenal, and the proposed ABM shield, it simply wouldn't work for that - but the Russians aren't having it. So before Obama was even around, data has been selectively shared to help the Russians get more comfortable with the idea. It's a diplomatic technique called "confidence building". New START cuts are the same sort of thing. They shrank their nuclear arsenals, sure. By amounts that in the end make literally no difference to their ability to utterly obliterate each other. But doing so shows a willingness to continue diplomacy.

So, enough hysterics. It's basically nothing.
 
Assuming Warren Buffett makes most of his investment income from corporations that have profits measured in the millions, those profits are taxed somewhere around 35% before Buffett pays his 15% on what is left after it flows through.  I doubt his secretary's federal tax rate is that high.

Interesting

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/01/25/warren-buffetts-secretary-likely-makes-between-200000-and-500000year/
 
Brad Sallows said:
Assuming Warren Buffett makes most of his investment income from corporations that have profits measured in the millions, those profits are taxed somewhere around 35% before Buffett pays his 15% on what is left after it flows through.  I doubt his secretary's federal tax rate is that high.

I want to stay out of this whole thread but those assumptions don't hold. What you are saying would only be true if all of Warren Buffett's income was from being paid dividends (because they are paid out of after-tax profits). Dividends are probably a small fraction of his income.

But no matter, because I think using Warren Buffett in any of these arguments, one way or another, is the wrong idea. He's an outlier in all circumstances, plus he gives more to charity in 3 months than I will make in my entire lifetime. Between taxes and charity, he distributes at least between 30-40% of his wealth.

EDIT: Oops, he distributed almost 48% of his wealth last year. He made 62.9 million, gave somewhere around 23.1 million to charity, and paid 6.9 million in taxes. http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2011/10/12/warren-buffets-effective-federal-income-tax-rate-is-just-11/

But it does say he makes a lot of money off of dividends. I would have thought it was primarily capital gains.
 
Redeye said:
And Ron Paul was endorsed by Stormfront. So what?

I think the so what is that the communists feel that Obama has enough in common with their views to endorse him.  Which says a lot.  Like the CAW constantly endorsing the NDP, it's because he best meets their interests.  Ipso facto, Obama must at least share SOME values with the group.

Further, this constant insistence of yours to negatively quote Fox news pers for being at the root of any views you disagree with is silly.  If you want to be the talking head apologist for Obama than go for it... but that doesn't mean other views are wrong or worth being mocked.
 
An interesting angle. The SOTU address made little mention of foreign policy, and what it did mention was (to put it mildly) wrong. Foreign policy isn't one of the major issues animating the electorate, but the fact the GOP response was so firmly and single mindedly on the economy suggests they are ignoring a potential wedge issue:

http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2012/01/25/obamas-sotu-speech-my-response/?print=1

Obama’s State of the Union Speech: My Response Discovers Some Curious Insights and Strange Formulations
Posted By Barry Rubin On January 25, 2012 @ 12:44 pm In Uncategorized | 46 Comments

In his State of the Union message, President Barack Obama began by wrapping himself in the flag, patriotism, and love of the armed forces while trying to highlight his foreign policy achievements. Among his points:

“The United States [is] safer and more respected around the world.”

Presumably, a lot of Americans will believe this. The United States may be said to be safer in terms of facing direct terror attacks but that was basically true in 2002. As for “more respected”—a phrase no doubt chosen to seem more statesmanlike than saying “more popular”–that is a joke. If there’s one thing that should be obvious (and this is often revealed even by international public opinion polls) it is that the United States is not more respected at all.

Moreover, while individual Americans may be relatively safe from terrorist attacks in their homes, neighborhoods and workplaces within the territory of the United States—a perception partly reinforced by redefining terrorist attacks as something else—U.S. interests abroad are far less safe.

“For the first time in nine years, there are no Americans fighting in Iraq.”

True, though the remaining forces may have to fight to defend themselves. This withdrawal, of course, was planned by Obama’s predecessor and Iraq is not doing so well today.

“For the first time in two decades, Osama bin Laden is not a threat to this country. Most of al Qaeda’s top lieutenants have been defeated.”

Aside from the lack of grammar here—was Obama trying to avoid saying that these people were killed?—the statement is true. The problem is that Hamas, Hizballah, the Turkish regime, Iran, Syria, and the Muslim Brotherhood add up to a far bigger threat, a problem magnified by Obama refusing to acknowledge they are a threat.

“The Taliban’s momentum has been broken, and some troops in Afghanistan have begun to come home.”

While the latter point about withdrawal is true, the Taliban is still quite strong. It would be quite possible for the Taliban to return to power within five years.

Then Obama rearranges history—quite obviously though no one in the mass media will point this out:

“Ending the Iraq war has allowed us to strike decisive blows against our enemies. From Pakistan to Yemen, the al Qaeda operatives who remain are scrambling, knowing that they can’t escape the reach of the United States of America.”

In fact, of course, the successes against al-Qaeda were obviously achieved before the withdrawal. Are al-Qaeda operatives trembling in fear before the might of America? Of course not. And in both Pakistan and Yemen (one should add Somalia) they are doing quite well. Obama could have done better by referring to the defeat of al-Qaeda as being part of the American “victory” in Iraq.

“From this position of strength, we’ve begun to wind down the war in Afghanistan. Ten thousand of our troops have come home. Twenty-three thousand more will leave by the end of this summer. This transition to Afghan lead will continue, and we will build an enduring partnership with Afghanistan, so that it is never again a source of attacks against America.”

Again, Obama tells an unnecessary lie. The withdrawal from Iraq is a correct move but hardly puts the United States in a position of strength, especially given Obama’s deep cuts on the military. And of course the end of the war in Afghanistan was planned long before any withdrawal in Iraq; indeed it was basically planned during his predecessor’s term.

As for an “enduring partnership with Afghanistan,” that’s the kind of statement bound to come back to haunt Obama. Afghanistan remains unstable, its government is angry with Obama, and the tide may well turn there after a U.S. withdrawal.

Next, Obama turns to the Arab Spring. He refers to his success in Libya:

“A year ago, Qadhafi was one of the world’s longest-serving dictators – a murderer with American blood on his hands. Today, he is gone.”

True, but what will replace him?

“And in Syria, I have no doubt that the Assad regime will soon discover that the forces of change can’t be reversed, and that human dignity can’t be denied.”

In fact, for two and a half years, Obama strongly backed—in contrast to predecessors—that regime which denied “human dignity.” And he’s doing very little to help that transformation now.

My number-one complaint about Obama—not that there aren’t others but this is in first place—is that he never hints at the dangers in the region precisely because he doesn’t recognize that they exist.

And, in total contrast to his actual policy, he gives lip service to doing something productive:

“While it is ultimately up to the people of the region to decide their fate, we will advocate for those values that have served our own country so well. We will stand against violence and intimidation. We will stand for the rights and dignity of all human beings – men and women; Christians, Muslims, and Jews. We will support policies that lead to strong and stable democracies and open markets, because tyranny is no match for liberty.”

In fact, though, Obama has basically ignored the “violence and intimidation” against Israel; the people of the Gaza Strip; the Turkish people; the Iranian people; the tyranny taking shape in Lebanon; the Christians in Iraq and Syria; and elsewhere.

How can “tyranny” be “no match for liberty” when U.S. policy is largely on the side of tyranny, indeed a tyranny of a worse kind that has previously prevailed in Egypt, the Gaza Strip, Lebanon, and Turkey?

When it comes to U.S. security interests, Obama can only talk about Iran, where he claims success:

“Through the power of our diplomacy, a world that was once divided about how to deal with Iran’s nuclear program now stands as one. The regime is more isolated than ever before; its leaders are faced with crippling sanctions, and as long as they shirk their responsibilities, this pressure will not relent.”

Nice. But Iran is still advancing in its nuclear program and its influence in Lebanon and Iraq increases while Tehran adequately defends its interests in Syria. If the State Department had not restrained Obama, he would also have handed Iran a victory in Bahrain.

On nuclear weapons, Obama repeats the standard line:

“America is determined to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, and I will take no options off the table to achieve that goal. But a peaceful resolution of this issue is still possible, and far better, and if Iran changes course and meets its obligations, it can rejoin the community of nations.”

And if it doesn’t? Yes, it is quite true that Obama led a move to tougher sanctions on Iran but he did so only by excluding Russia, Turkey, and China from compliance. I would argue that the same result could have been achieved far earlier than Obama did it.

Here is the worst sentence of the speech: “The renewal of American leadership can be felt across the globe.” It is precisely the lack of American leadership that is being felt.

“Our oldest alliances in Europe and Asia are stronger than ever.” Really? The South Koreans would probably agree but generally the alliances are not stronger than ever but about as weak as they have ever been.

“Our ties to the Americas are deeper.” Actually, Latin American leaders are very unhappy, feeling that Obama has coddled the Chavez dictatorship while ignoring them.

“Our iron-clad commitment to Israel’s security has meant the closest military cooperation between our two countries in history.”

This is a carefully constructed sentence which I find makes me even more suspicious about Obama’s commitment toward Israel. Why? Because it is true that the bilateral military cooperation is as good as it has ever been. But all other areas of relations are terrible. This sentence tells me that Obama understands that and wants to accentuate the positive without doing anything to improve the negative. He thinks U.S.-Israel relations are good enough and will not—even if, or especially if, elected to a second term–make any effort to improve relations with Israel or U.S. support for that country. After all, he thinks that the relationship is perfect right now.

Another point to notice is Obama’s failure to mention—much less highlight—the Israel-Palestinian “peace process.” They’ve given up on that one, at least for 2012.

And then he concludes with this statement, remarkable for being so directly opposite to the truth:

“America is back. Anyone who tells you otherwise, anyone who tells you that America is in decline or that our influence has waned, doesn’t know what they’re talking about.”

Wow, first, America is not back because Obama has reduced U.S. influence, leverage, and activism. Second, who has done more than Obama to assert that U.S. power is in decline? And, third, this fact is totally obvious to leaders in Latin America, Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. Obama, however, is always one for doubling down on his lies or errors. (You choose the word you prefer.):

“That’s not the message we get from leaders around the world, all of whom are eager to work with us. That’s not how people feel from Tokyo to Berlin; from Capetown to Rio; where opinions of America are higher than they’ve been in years.”

The truth is generally the exact opposite and even in the polls one can see this. Obama can be daring because he knows the media won’t bash him for saying stuff like this.

There’s something else I find fascinating and generally ignored about this speech. All presidents, of course, want to put the accent on the positive. But with Obama I don’t see any real consideration of threats and problems. Yes, he mentions al-Qaida and the Taliban (no longer a problem, he says) and Iran (under control and they will be pressed into making a deal), and democratic transitions (we don’t know what will happen but…).

Nevertheless, America faces no real threats or enemies. revolutionary Islamism doesn’t exist as an issue; Russia poses no problem; Chavez and Castro and various other dictators are vanished; even underdevelopment or instability aren’t mentioned. There is a Pollyanna aspect to Obama arising from his belief that everything would be okay as long as America behaves properly and he is president.  In his world there are no real conflicts; few true enemies but only misunderstandings.  With Obama the problem is not merely his politics and views but also his total lack of true understanding about international affairs, security issues, and strategy.

Governor Mitch Daniels gave the Republican response and stuck completely to domestic economic issues, which was after all Obama’s main theme. Yet international affairs was the only other theme and if Obama’s critics can’t do a better job of analyzing his claims, responding to his policies, and offering an alternative to his strategies he is more likely to remain president for five more years.

Article printed from Rubin Reports: http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin

URL to article: http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2012/01/25/obamas-sotu-speech-my-response/
 
Bird_Gunner45 said:
I think the so what is that the communists feel that Obama has enough in common with their views to endorse him.  Which says a lot.  Like the CAW constantly endorsing the NDP, it's because he best meets their interests.  Ipso facto, Obama must at least share SOME values with the group.

Perhaps. A desire for a little more equality, a little less income disparity? Things like that are pretty innocuous. How many members does the Communist Party USA have anyhow? About the same number as the "New Black Panthers"? I've got no real interest in them as suck.

Bird_Gunner45 said:
Further, this constant insistence of yours to negatively quote Fox news pers for being at the root of any views you disagree with is silly.  If you want to be the talking head apologist for Obama than go for it... but that doesn't mean other views are wrong or worth being mocked.

I disparage people who add noise to the debate. I've not really had to, but Michael Moore does it too. So does Glenn Greenwald. However, the "left" doesn't have an equivalent to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, though Beck's basically gone the way of Alex Jones and seems to be increasingly regarded as a self-serving lunatic. For me, it's noteworthy that there's no massive media left wing propagandists who lie or spin incessantly in any major media outlet. That's just the way it is. There's a difference between views I or anyone disagree with that are presented reasonably, and what amounts to just agitprop BS. The former I can handle as being productive to civil discourse, the latter are useless.
 
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