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U.S. 2012 Election

On Nov 6 Who Will Win President Obama or Mitt Romney ?

  • President Obama

    Votes: 39 61.9%
  • Mitt Romney

    Votes: 24 38.1%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .
Here is a possible outcome of a electoral split between a Democrat Administration and a Republican House and Senate. The downline elections are looking ever more important. WRT the Congress, the House is quite active, but the Democrat Senate is where bills go to die; they have not even proposed or passed a budget in over 900 days:

http://www.city-journal.org/2012/eon0106fsjk.html

The New Authoritarianism
A firm hand for a “nation of dodos”
6 January 2012

“I refuse to take ‘No’ for an answer,” said President Obama this week as he claimed new powers for himself in making recess appointments while Congress wasn’t legally in recess. The chief executive’s power grab in naming appointees to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the National Labor Relations Board has been depicted by administration supporters as one forced upon a reluctant Obama by Republican intransigence. But this isn’t the first example of the president’s increasing tendency to govern with executive-branch powers. He has already explained that “where Congress is not willing to act, we’re going to go ahead and do it ourselves.” On a variety of issues, from immigration to the environment to labor law, that’s just what he’s been doing—and he may try it even more boldly should he win reelection. This “go it alone” philosophy reflects an authoritarian trend emerging on the political left since the conservative triumph in the 2010 elections.

The president and his coterie could have responded to the 2010 elections by conceding the widespread public hostility to excessive government spending and regulation. That’s what the more clued-in Clintonites did after their 1994 midterm defeats. But unlike Clinton, who came from the party’s moderate wing and hailed from the rural South, the highly urban progressive rump that is Obama’s true base of support has little appreciation for suburban or rural Democrats. In fact, some liberals even celebrated the 2010 demise of the Blue Dog and Plains States Democrats, concluding that the purged party could embrace a purer version of the liberal agenda. So instead of appealing to the middle, the White House has pressed ahead with Keynesian spending and a progressive regulatory agenda.

Much of the administration’s approach has to do with a change in the nature of liberal politics. Today’s progressives cannot be viewed primarily as pragmatic Truman- or Clinton-style majoritarians. Rather, they resemble the medieval clerical class. Their goal is governmental control over everything from what sort of climate science is permissible to how we choose to live our lives. Many of today’s progressives can be as dogmatic in their beliefs as the most strident evangelical minister or mullah. Like Al Gore declaring the debate over climate change closed, despite the Climategate e-mails and widespread skepticism, the clerisy takes its beliefs as based on absolute truth. Critics lie beyond the pale.

The problem for the clerisy lies in political reality. The country’s largely suburban and increasingly Southern electorate does not see big government as its friend or wise liberal mandarins as the source of its salvation. This sets up a potential political crisis between those who know what’s good and a presumptively ignorant majority. Obama is burdened, says Joe Klein of Time, by governing a “nation of dodos” that is “too dumb to thrive,” as the title of his story puts it, without the guidance of our president. But if the people are too deluded to cooperate, elements in the progressive tradition have a solution: European-style governance by a largely unelected bureaucratic class.

The tension between self-government and “good” government has existed since the origins of modern liberalism. Thinkers such as Herbert Croly and Randolph Bourne staked a claim to a priestly wisdom far greater than that possessed by the ordinary mortal. As Croly explained, “any increase in centralized power and responsibility . . . is injurious to certain aspects of traditional American democracy. But the fault in that case lies with the democratic tradition” and the fact that “the average American individual is morally and intellectually inadequate to a serious and consistent conception of his responsibilities as a democrat.”

During the first two years of the Obama administration, the progressives persuaded themselves that favorable demographics and the consequences of the George W. Bush years would assure the consent of the electorate. They drew parallels with how growing urbanization and Herbert Hoover’s legacy worked for FDR in the 1930s. But FDR enhanced his majority in his first midterm election in 1934; the current progressive agenda, by contrast, was roundly thrashed in 2010. Obama may compare himself to Roosevelt and even to Lincoln, but the electorate does not appear to share this assessment.

After the 2010 thrashing, progressives seemed uninterested in moderating their agenda. Left-wing standard bearers Katrina vanden Heuvel of The Nation and Robert Borosage of the Institute for Policy Studies went so far as to argue that Obama should bypass Congress whenever necessary and govern using his executive authority over the government’s regulatory agencies. This autocratic agenda of enhanced executive authority has strong support with people close to White House, such as John Podesta of the Center for American Progress, a left-liberal think tank. “The U.S. Constitution and the laws of our nation grant the president significant authority to make and implement policy,” Podesta has written. “These authorities can be used to ensure positive progress on many of the key issues facing the country.”

Podesta has proposed what amounts to a national, more ideological variant of what in Obama’s home state is known as “The Chicago Way.” Under that system, John Kass of the Chicago Tribune explains, “citizens, even Republicans, are expected to take what big government gives them. If the political boss suggests that you purchase some expensive wrought-iron fence to decorate your corporate headquarters, and the guy selling insurance to the wrought-iron boys is the boss’ little brother, you write the check.” But the American clerisy isn’t merely a bunch of corrupt politicians and bureaucratic lifers, and the United States isn’t one-party Chicago. The clerisy are more like an ideological vanguard, one based largely in academe and the media as well as part of the high-tech community.

Their authoritarian progressivism—at odds with the democratic, pluralistic traditions within liberalism—tends to evoke science, however contested, to justify its authority. The progressives themselves are, in Daniel Bell’s telling phrase, “the priests of the machine.” Their views are fairly uniform and can be seen in “progressive legal theory,” which displaces the seeming plain meaning of the Constitution with constructions derived from the perceived needs of a changing political environment. Belief in affirmative action, environmental justice, health-care reform, and redistribution from the middle class to the poor all find foundation there. More important still is a radical environmental agenda fervently committed to the idea that climate change has a human origin—a kind of secular notion of original sin. But these ideas are not widely shared by most people. The clerisy may see in Obama “reason incarnate,” as George Packer of The New Yorker put it, but the majority of the population remains more concerned about long-term unemployment and a struggling economy than about rising sea levels or the need to maintain racial quotas.

Despite the president’s clear political weaknesses—his job-approval ratings remain below 50 percent—he retains a reasonable shot at reelection. In the coming months, he will likely avoid pushing too hard on such things as overregulating business, particularly on the environmental front, which would undermine the nascent recovery and stir too much opposition from corporate donors. American voters may also be less than enthusiastic about the Republican alternatives topping the ticket. And one should never underestimate the power of even a less-than-popular president. Obama can count on a strong chorus of support from the media and many of the top high-tech firms, which have enjoyed lavish subsidies and government loans for “green” projects.

If Obama does win, 2013 could possibly bring something approaching a constitutional crisis. With the House and perhaps the Senate in Republican hands, Obama’s clerisy may be tempted to use the full range of executive power. The logic for running the country from the executive has been laid out already. Republican control of just the House, argues Chicago congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr., has made America ungovernable. Obama, he said during the fight over the debt limit, needed to bypass the Constitution because, as in 1861, the South (in this case, the Southern Republicans) was “in a state of rebellion” against lawful authority. Beverley Perdue, the Democratic governor of North Carolina, concurred: she wanted to have elections suspended for a stretch. (Perdue’s office later insisted this was a joke, but most jokes aren’t told deadpan or punctuated with “I really hope someone can agree with me on that.” Also: Nobody laughed.)

The Left’s growing support for a soft authoritarianism is reminiscent of the 1930s, when many on both right and left looked favorably at either Stalin’s Soviet experiment or its fascist and National Socialist rivals. Tom Friedman of the New York Times recently praised Chinese-style authoritarianism for advancing the green agenda. The “reasonably enlightened group” running China, he asserted, was superior to our messy democracy in such things as subsidizing green industry. Steven Rattner, the investment banker and former Obama car czar, dismisses the problems posed by China’s economic and environmental foibles and declares himself “staunchly optimistic” about the future of that country’s Communist Party dictatorship. And it’s not just the gentry liberals identifying China as their model: labor leader Andy Stern, formerly the president of the Service Employees International Union and a close ally of the White House, celebrates Chinese authoritarianism and says that our capitalistic pluralism is headed for “the trash heap of history.” The Chinese, Stern argues, get things done.

A victorious Obama administration could embrace a soft version of the Chinese model. The mechanisms of control already exist. The bureaucratic apparatus, the array of policy czars and regulatory enforcers commissioned by the executive branch, has grown dramatically under Obama. Their ability to control and prosecute people for violations relating to issues like labor and the environment—once largely the province of states and localities—can be further enhanced. In the post-election environment, the president, using agencies like the EPA, could successfully strangle whole industries—notably the burgeoning oil and natural gas sector—and drag whole regions into recession. The newly announced EPA rules on extremely small levels of mercury and other toxins, for example, will sharply raise electricity rates in much of the country, particularly in the industrial heartland; greenhouse-gas policy, including, perhaps, an administratively imposed “cap and trade,” would greatly impact entrepreneurs and new investors forced to purchase credits from existing polluters. On a host of social issues, the new progressive regime could employ the Justice Department to impose national rulings well out of sync with local sentiments. Expansions of affirmative action, gay rights, and abortion rights could become mandated from Washington even in areas, such as the South, where such views are anathema.

This future can already been seen in fiscally challenged California. The state should be leading a recovery, not lagging behind the rest of the country. But in a place where Obama-style progressives rule without effective opposition, the clerisy has already enacted a score of regulatory mandates that are chasing businesses, particularly in manufacturing, out of the state. It has also passed land-use policies designed to enforce density, in effect eliminating the dream of single-family homes for all but the very rich in much of the state.

A nightmare scenario would be a constitutional crisis pitting a relentless executive power against a disgruntled, alienated opposition lacking strong, intelligent leadership. Over time, the new authoritarians would elicit even more opposition from the “dodos” who make up the majority of Americans residing in the great landmass outside the coastal strips and Chicago. The legacy of the Obama years—once so breathlessly associated with hope and reconciliation—may instead be growing pessimism and polarization.

Fred Siegel, a contributing editor of City Journal, is scholar in residence at St. Francis College in Brooklyn. Joel Kotkin is a contributing editor of City Journal and the Distinguished Presidential Fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University.

The other nightmare scenario is a Capital Strike (such as the one in 1937-38) where business simply refuses to invest since they cannot predict the outcomes of myriad new regulations and taxes being imposed (you might say there is a capital strike happening now in the small business sector, and probably in the medium sized sector as well, large firms can use crony capitalism to continue to function [at least so far]).
 
Thucydides said:
WRT the Congress, the House is quite active, but the Democrat Senate is where bills go to die; they have not even proposed or passed a budget in over 900 days

The House is quite active?! Doing what, exactly? They've passed no substantial bills - nothing to deal with the economy broadly, and a series of poison pills which die in the Senate because they are ridiculous. There's a reason the Congress has an approval level comparable to syphilis, and I don't think it's the Senate.
 
Redeye, a suggestion. IMHO, you should commence each post with, quote IMHO unquote, as you are so humble.

I realize you may feel that my suggestion is: ridiculous, (not) credible, absurd, tired rhetoric, insanity, (in)coherent, (full of) gaffes, and racist.

Note: That was from your last three posts. You outdid yourself in the second post.


Added: your last
 
It's too bad that the Republicans do not have a moderate conservative candidate that would appeal to independents and conservative Democrats.  With this current slate, Pres. Obama is almost assured a victory in November.

IMHO:
Romney: Boring, flip-flops, too "liberal" for hard Republicans (if our Liberals were as "liberal" as Romney, I would consider voting for them)

The Rest: Bat-$h!t crazy
 
RangerRay said:
The Rest: Bat-$h!t crazy
This is exactly what I meant earlier.  Are you trying to say that "I don't agree with what they are saying, therefore they are crazy, because no sane person would say or believe what they say?"  That makes as much logical sense as this:

roflbot-zjmh.jpg


Or are you trying to say "the rest have ideas that are too leftwing/rightwing for me, and I don't agree with their positions".
 
RangerRay said:
It's too bad that the Republicans do not have a moderate conservative candidate that would appeal to independents and conservative Democrats.  With this current slate, Pres. Obama is almost assured a victory in November.

IMHO:
Romney: Boring, flip-flops, too "liberal" for hard Republicans (if our Liberals were as "liberal" as Romney, I would consider voting for them)

The Rest: Bat-$h!t crazy

It's pretty obvious that the only actual contenders are Romney and Gingrich, and frankly, I don't think that Gingrich will overcome his unpopularity in his own party. Romney doesn't really seem to be able to sell the fact that "Obamacare" is heavily derived from his own state, the plan he created. It'll be fairly easy for the Dems to work with that, disarming one of the main things that the parties differ on.

President Obama's re-election is all but guaranteed, so I suspect the real work and focus is going to be on the Congressional races.
 
Redeye said:
President Obama's re-election is all but guaranteed
Famous last words.  In 1992, shortly after the First Gulf War, during the Democratic Primaries, SNL had a skit in which the object was to put out a patsy to get his "ass kicked by President Bush"...

Of course, it didn't turn out so well for the Republicans.  A lot can happen between now and then.
 
Technoviking said:
Famous last words.  In 1992, shortly after the First Gulf War, during the Democratic Primaries, SNL had a skit in which the object was to put out a patsy to get his "*** kicked by President Bush"...

Of course, it didn't turn out so well for the Republicans.  A lot can happen between now and then.

Hence "all but". However, the way things are shaping up there's not much chance of a losss.
 
Redeye said:
Hence "all but". However, the way things are shaping up there's not much chance of a losss.
That's my point.  In 1992, it was "all but" and things were shaping up for a Bush landslide re-election.  Alas, Bill made it to the Whitehouse :)
 
Technoviking said:
This is exactly what I meant earlier.  Are you trying to say that "I don't agree with what they are saying, therefore they are crazy, because no sane person would say or believe what they say?"  That makes as much logical sense as this:

Or are you trying to say "the rest have ideas that are too leftwing/rightwing for me, and I don't agree with their positions".

Fair enough.  I deserved that.

The point I was making was that were I a Yank Republican, I wouldn't have much hope at the moment.  This should be a sure win for them, but with these (in my opinion) lack-lustre candidates, I think Pres. Obama will still be President this time next year.

But I guess things can change.
 
Geez....at least the race would have been more interesting, if not less informed, if Palin had run.........there really isn't much in the way of potential in the present batch.....at least not enough to upset Obama.....

If there had been a credible candidate, IMHO, Obama would be toast....
 
I think these primaries are clouding the real issues. When the GOP has a candidate, assuming that candidate is credible, then the whole party can run against Obama, not other Republicans.

I do not think Obama's reelection is a sure thing, maybe, right now, it is 53%-47%, giving full weight to the value of incumbency. He might go up if the economy improves ... he might falter if the GOP unites around their candidate.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
I think these primaries are clouding the real issues. When the GOP has a candidate, assuming that candidate is credible, then the whole party can run against Obama, not other Republicans.

I do not think Obama's reelection is a sure thing, maybe, right now, it is 53%-47%, giving full weight to the value of incumbency. He might go up if the economy improves ... he might falter if the GOP unites around their candidate.

I don't know about the GOP getting their collective shit together.  They look like they are going to unravel like Grandma's ball of yarn as our NDP seem to be starting to do as well.
 
If the 2011 trend in the economy continues that should help President Obama - as the GOP candidates stumble all over themselves to try to explain why it's a bad thing that job growth has been strong, and such things. It's really the gaffes that will power things along though, we'll have to see how that happens. I'm hoping there's a solid backlash against both Boehner and Cantor's sets. There's also the problem of the fact that the Senate now requires a supermajority to pass anything since the GOP has brought their obstructionism there too.
 
I think we are seeing the worst and best of the primary system in action.

It provides a way for the most partisan elements of each party to lay down their positions and see how potential candidates react. Right now, for the GOP, it looks like a circular firing squad - everyone shooting at each other. And it looks like paradise for the Democrats who, having an incumbent president, are not in the process.

But when the primary end the GOP candidate will have endured pretty much all the scrutiny and mud slinging that any opposition can muster and (s)he will be able to fight against Obama, not against other Republicans.

There is some question about the whole Republican party uniting behind any candidate - I suspect Romney may lose the religious right, but I still don';t think Obama is a shoo-in.
 
Redeye said:
If the 2011 trend in the economy continues that should help President Obama - as the GOP candidates stumble all over themselves to try to explain why it's a bad thing that job growth has been strong, and such things. It's really the gaffes that will power things along though, we'll have to see how that happens. I'm hoping there's a solid backlash against both Boehner and Cantor's sets. There's also the problem of the fact that the Senate now requires a supermajority to pass anything since the GOP has brought their obstructionism there too.


The economic trends for 2012 are somewhat less horrendous than in 2010 and 11, but they are not good, not for Americans - housing prices are still falling, unemployment is still growing and so on.

The national debt, including entitlements, now is greater than the GDP.

Obama is not in a "happy place."
 
I still see the election as far from guaranteed. The problem is the matter of votes. At this time, I see the downward trend of voter turnout returning with a vengeance. The virgin-voters that Obama was able to curry in 2008 will be large part, gone. Immigrants, the young, minorities, etc - the President has, by and large, failed to hold on to them. These people are not going to vote Republican either, they are simply not going to vote. As for the Republicans, it seems as though each candidate serves to alienate one element of their base. Romney, Huntsman and, dare I say, Gingrich (for different reasons) can not sit well among the evangelicals. Paul, while loved by some is feared by many, while Santorum should make the non-evangelicals uncomfortable. I feel it is less a matter of who wins votes now, versus who loses more. This I feel could win the Republicans the election.
 
Kernewek said:
I still see the election as far from guaranteed. The problem is the matter of votes. At this time, I see the downward trend of voter turnout returning with a vengeance. The virgin-voters that Obama was able to curry in 2008 will be large part, gone. Immigrants, the young, minorities, etc - the President has, by and large, failed to hold on to them. These people are not going to vote Republican either, they are simply not going to vote. As for the Republicans, it seems as though each candidate serves to alienate one element of their base. Romney, Huntsman and, dare I say, Gingrich (for different reasons) can not sit well among the evangelicals. Paul, while loved by some is feared by many, while Santorum should make the non-evangelicals uncomfortable. I feel it is less a matter of who wins votes now, versus who loses more. This I feel could win the Republicans the election.

That's the problem that dominates the US process - or at least seems to. It's not about getting people excited to vote for you (though President Obama did manage to do that in 2008, getting a lot of people engaged and interested in the process), it's about hoping that large voting blocs stay home. It seems to me that Democrats hope to find a way to get the evangelical set to stay home, hoping a candidate for the Republicans doesn't resonate with that, and the Republicans would rather minorities remain generally disenfranchised. To that end, they seem to want to try to make it harder and harder to register to vote, and they also seem to be fans of gerrymandering where they can (Ohio seems to be the latest place I read about this being tried). Ultimately, it's a sad comment on a system when this is what the main victory considerations are.
 
For those who can't be bothered to read Redeye's posts:

obama-as-christ.jpg


gopfascistlogo.jpg



(Posted with tongue firmly in cheek)  ;D
 
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