U of Windsor Pres Wonders Whether AFG Mission is About Oil

[MarkOttawa]

Letter sent to the Windsor Star:

Dear Editor,

So Alan Wildeman ("U of W president questions purpose of Afghan mission", Jan. 20) wonders "whether Canadian soldiers were there  for oil."  One is astounded that a senior educator can be so ill-informed.

Afghanistan has no role in the production or transportation of Central Asian oil, and only a potential, not terribly significant, role regarding natural gas.  Most of that oil is in Kazakhstan, far to the west of Afghanistan, and Kazakhstan has no need for Afghanistan as a pipeline route. Kazakh oil is now exported by pipeline via Russia and to China. Kazakhstan is also planning an oil pipeline through its own territory to link up across the Caspian Sea in Azerbaijan with the existing Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline . This pipeline ends at the eastern Mediterranean in Turkey.  There are also plans to export Kazakh oil via Iran.

There is a long-standing plan for a natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan and (maybe) India. But that is hardly a vital national security or capitalist interest for NATO members. Moreover, given current conditions, such a pipeline is not likely to be built for quite a while. In any case most of the gas would be for Pakistani and perhaps Indian consumption--not a major concern for other countries.

On the other hand there are also plans to export Turkmen gas to Europe via a trans-Caspian pipeline.  That plan is a lot more important to European NATO members (and the US) than Afghan pipeline possibilities--especially given the great problems Russia has been causing in the supply of its gas to European customers.  The Afghan angle for Turkmen gas exports is truly small beer by comparison.

References:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8277
http://www.globalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail6096.htm
http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1280607/kazakhstan_considers_joining_iranian_oil_pipeline_project/index.html
http://www.independent-bangladesh.com/200803313829/business/india-to-join-turkmenistan-afghanistan-pakistan-gas-pipeline.html
http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Energy/Briefing/2008/03/07/azeris_turkmen_agree_on_gas_pipeline/2840/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7538

Mark
Ottawa

 

[54/102 CEF]

Boys

Calm down

If truth be told - University Learnin reflects markets for in-demand skills

Take a look at any top 500 Business leaders bios and there are as many English grads as there are Engineers and just as many who started in the mail room ------- just like say.... THE ARMY?

As for if Afghanistan is about oil ---> if they ever stablise that region there are valleys that could be routes for Oil to where there is no Oil.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Actually for me this just goes to show how the Federal Govt. and the higher-ups in DND are not doing 1/10th of the job, in regards to getting information out to the masses, as our brave boys and girls are doing on the ground over there.

Shame.

 

[a_majoor]

If only he worked somewhere where he could ask smart people about viable oil reserves in Afghanistan.

Best line ever!

Actually for me this just goes to show how the Federal Govt. and the higher-ups in DND are not doing 1/10th of the job, in regards to getting information out to the masses, as our brave boys and girls are doing on the ground over there.

Shame.

There could be marching bands parading in front of people with our news from Afghanistan, but if people wish to remain willfully ignorent (regardless of their positions in life), then there is little we can do to change that.

 

[The Bread Guy]

There could be marching bands parading in front of people with our news from Afghanistan, but if people wish to remain willfully ignorent (regardless of their positions in life), then there is little we can do to change that.

True, and we've all read criticisms of MSM in the coverage, but I have to agree with Bruce - if the highest bosses don't get out there to talk about it all the time, like they say about lotteries, ya can't win if you don't buy a ticket...

If truth be told - University Learnin reflects markets for in-demand skills

If that really was the case, according to Stats Can, there's a case to be made that "the market" would be made up of, in descending order of numbers (based on BAs):
- Social and behavioural scientists/lawyers
- Business, management and public administrators
- Teachers
- Health, parks, recreation and fitness workers

 

[a_majoor]

Actually "University Learning" is a euphanism for "Credentialism". It doesn't matter if your BA is in 13th century French poetry, only that you have a BA behind your name.

 

[CorporalMajor]

I've gotta give the guy credit for one thing though. Those in his position are often quick to commit to taking a particular stand on an issue. At least he admitted ignorance and didn't try to take a specific stand one way or the other. That takes a certain amount of courage of its own in a society where everyone is so quick to form, hold, and vociferously argue their opinion, regardless of whether they're informed or not.

Agreed.  He didn't pull a UofG or a UBC at least.

The question is.  If Canada really was spending billions of dollars fighting in AFG for oil, why?  I thought we had the largest oil reserves next to Saudi?  Wouldn't we save more money and start less controversy minding ourselves?  That's why I laugh every time someone mentions oil..

 

[54/102 CEF]

I suggest you look at Colin Powell's comments on CNN http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/21/powell.president.obama/index.html

The $ we are spending isn't for Oil - an Oil pipeline to alleviate the lack of energy where it isn't (and I have no idea where the markets is except its probably E and N of Afghanistan) - is a 2nd or 3rd order result of STABLITY in the region.

So next time someone says we are fighting for oil you should back away to avoid the flies because the speaker had his head up is a$$ before he let loose with those words.

 

[MarkOttawa]

54/102 CEF: Please read this comment; there is no/no blinking plan for any oil pipeline through Afstan ::
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/83343/post-802583.html#msg802583

Mark
Ottawa

 

[54/102 CEF]

54/102 CEF: Please read this comment; there is no/no blinking plan for any oil pipeline through Afstan ::
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/83343/post-802583.html#msg802583

Mark
Ottawa

Hi Mark

I don't see I said there was a plan for an oil pipeline.

 

[MarkOttawa]

54/102 CEF: Sorry, I may have been too jumpy, but you did write:

The $ we are spending isn't for Oil - an Oil pipeline to alleviate the lack of energy where it isn't (and I have no idea where the markets is except its probably E and N of Afghanistan) - is a 2nd or 3rd order result of STABLITY in the region.

There is a zero order result for an oil  pipeline involving Afstan in any foreseeable future--unless there are undiscovered and very large oil reserves somewhere in the immediate neighbourhood of which we now know nothing.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[54/102 CEF]

54/102 CEF: Sorry, I may have been too jumpy, but you did write:

There is a zero order result for an oil  pipeline involving Afstan in any foreseeable future--unless there are undiscovered and very large oil reserves somewhere in the immediate neighbourhood of which we now know nothing.

Mark
Ottawa

we agree

 

[Ralph]

- Our universities are bastions of institutionalized socialism.  Aside from the sets of actually useful skills (engineering, science, medicine, commerce, law), most of the effort of a university is directed towards maintaining the socialist cadre. Students pay their wedge of the tuition, after which they pretend to learn while the profs pretend to teach.  The students are then CERTIFIED (vice EDUCATED) and have a slip of paper assisting their eventual admittance to the bureaucracy.  University presidents are chosen for their level of enslavement to the dogma of socialism, not their intellect.

Open letter to all CF officers who have one of those actually useless degrees - he's found us out, comrades! Increase your agitprop and leaflet distribution fourfold! The people grow surly! 
Kommissar Ralph

 

[Long in the tooth]

I can only feel pity for the University President being so ignorant.  I guess a trip to the library is beyond his means....

Maybe we could start a fund?

 

[a_majoor]

More on credentialism. Sorry Kommissar Ralph, but having a degree really only proves you have the ability to stay in school and pass your courses. Lots of smart people pass, of course, but some graduates seem to be.....lacking. The best way to evaluate people was allegedly developed by von Moltke the Elder, who created a 2X2 matrix of:

Smart/Stupid
Lazy/Industrious

People who are Smart and Lazy (according to von Moltke) would make excellent staff officers, since they would find the easiest solutions to problems.
People who are Smart and Industrious were ideal Regimental officers
People who are Stupid and Lazy were the unfortunate byproducts of any system, and should be carefully isolated
People who are Stupid and Industrious are dangerous, and need to be removed from the system as soon as possible!

(See also Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy)

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/2009/Q1/mail554.html

As predicted. Once an oligopoly is granted -- in this case to the colleges as the gatekeepers for credentials -- the market will work as expected. Where there is competition there is lobbying to restrict entry into the competitive field of endeavor; once the entry is restricted by government, then those who own that field of endeavor will seek to maximize what they can get out of it. The US education system is a perfect example.

By law, once must have a college degree to become a commissioned officer of the United States. Teaching credentials are under the control of colleges of education. You can't issue bonds without financial ratings from one of four named companies, every one of which demonstrated its utter incompetence when it gave AAA ratings to those goofy mortgage based security packages when there was not data whatever to go on.

It takes government to create such a structure. Letting people be gate keepers lets them collect rent. From everyone.

 

[Long in the tooth]

I believe you are correct with Von Moltke, but have also heard that

Those stupid and lazy, although unfortunate, can also be useful for ceremonial purposes.

To wit, many Canadian General Officers had been promoted above their heads after the first world war; the wise thing was to employ them in force generation (not in charge of) to show off the flag.  They had been fine and courageous soldiers in the first but were completely unsuited to the second.

Cheers

 

[KingKikapu]

More on credentialism. Sorry Kommissar Ralph, but having a degree really only proves you have the ability to stay in school and pass your courses. Lots of smart people pass, of course, but some graduates seem to be.....lacking. The best way to evaluate people was allegedly developed by von Moltke the Elder, who created a 2X2 matrix of:

Smart/Stupid
Lazy/Industrious

Could you define what it is to be smart or stupid?

are the elements of this setup linearly independent?

sorry, math joke.

 

[54/102 CEF]

To wit, many Canadian General Officers had been promoted above their heads after the first world war; the wise thing was to employ them in force generation (not in charge of) to show off the flag.  They had been fine and courageous soldiers in the first but were completely unsuited to the second.

Cheers

The Stupid Barrier was the Channel. As for the 1st and 2nd war - read Granatstein`s Canadian Generals of WW2 - want to do a repeat? Just starve the Army of Trainers in the Regs and Reserves. What do we hear today? We could do more but we have no trainers.

 

[Ralph]

Thucydides - I agree. Staying in school and passing proves you have the ability to a) complete a task and b) complete it correctly. No different than taking an army course and passing all the POs. Nobody cares less than me as to where I got my degree and what it's in. However, the CF requires me to have one. Almost half the candidates on my basic training and CAP courses failed because they couldn't grasp basic military skills, and are proof that a university degree is only some sort of vaguely related benchmark.
That being said, the useless degrees that TCBF speaks of are the ones that (hopefully) teach people to string words together well. If me no right good, my troops' PERs will stink and will suffer at meriting boards. Memos that I write or minute and send upstairs chock-full of mistakes will come back down in a sea of red, slowing down whatever it was we hoped to accomplish. Not to sound old, but high school doesn't teach one to write well; practice does. That I had to pay a whole bunch of money to have some old dude mark my boring essays didn't seem worthwhile back then, but it does now. Except when I'm dismounted...

 

[ltmaverick25]

That I had to pay a whole bunch of money to have some old dude mark my boring essays didn't seem worthwhile back then, but it does now. Except when I'm dismounted...

I think you make some very good points here.  Having a degree proves that you can learn.  It should, in most cases prove a certain level of intellect.  It does not, however, prove that one is capable of being a combat leader.  I am in the process of doing a masters degree in one of the so called useless fields that TCBF is referring to (History) and I work with and compete against some fairly brilliant people.  They are also the first to admit that they would be completely useless in a military setting.  Having a degree will not guarantee that one has the makings of a great military officer, rather, it means the degree holder possesses the bare minimum nuts and bolts essentials that are required to do the job.  That is not to say of course that someone without a degree won’t also have the same minimum potential though.  The only thing I don’t like about the requirement of having a degree to become an officer is that it potentially alienates those who could not afford university or could not otherwise qualify for student loans.  In that one sense, it is an unfair and limiting factor.