Two dead, 22 injured in Toronto shooting

[The_Falcon]

Prison Camps in the high arctic was a pretty big deterrent in the old USSR, I am sure it would have the same effect here.  Oh and not having activist judges undermining the will of parliament that just happened where a judge declared that Harper's Man/Min provisions for firearms are unconstitutional.  Perhaps Harper should use the notwithstanding clause and give this judge the finger.

 

[Rifleman62]

I lived in Toronto in 1965/66. Many smug Toronto citizens tisk tisted what was happening in Detroit/LA/etc at the time.

In 1965, 25% of Blacks in the USA did not have a father. Today it is 72.5%.

We will hear from the left wing toons/gun lobby about about the cause being lack of opportunities and unregistered guns et al.

The cause is second, third, fourth generation welfare. Everything for nothing. Political correctness. Weak-kneed politicians/opportunists.

 

[mariomike]

"Toronto EMS deputy chief Garrie Wright said 16 ambulances and an EMS bus were used to carry the wounded to hospital.

But Shannon Longshaw, one of the party organizers, said she had to scream at EMS paramedics to hurry up as the 14-year-old girl lay dying. “They weren’t rushing,” she said."

I'm sure that helped a lot.

:sarcasm:

Edit to add reference:
Toronto Star July 17, 2012

 

[Rifleman62]

I forgot to add: entitlement.

 

[JorgSlice]

"Toronto EMS deputy chief Garrie Wright said 16 ambulances and an EMS bus were used to carry the wounded to hospital.

But Shannon Longshaw, one of the party organizers, said she had to scream at EMS paramedics to hurry up as the 14-year-old girl lay dying. “They weren’t rushing,” she said."

I'm sure that helped a lot.

:sarcasm:

Can't say for much in Toronto, but here in BC I see it all the time. Paramedics out here get paid "$X/hr" (possibly about 12 or 15/hr) when on standby, then it jumps to around $30 or $30/hr when they receive a call. They continue to get paid with this "Call rate" until the patient has been brought to hospital, triaged, and the Paramedics radio in that they're cleared from that call.

You should see the number of paramedics out here that take their sweet arse time to do anything, just so they can get paid more. Also, they stand around in the triage area or the ambulance holding area for up to hours even, doing nothing, their patient was transferred into hospital care and they're good to go back out... but they stand there and draw as much money as they can out of the system. I'm not painting them all with the same brush, there are many good, honest and hard-working paramedics... but some... are not.

Ever wonder why it takes so long for an ambulance to show up? Here's part of the answer.

 

[The_Falcon]

Can't say for much in Toronto, but here in BC I see it all the time. Paramedics out here get paid "$X/hr" (possibly about 12 or 15/hr) when on standby, then it jumps to around $30 or $30/hr when they receive a call. They continue to get paid with this "Call rate" until the patient has been brought to hospital, triaged, and the Paramedics radio in that they're cleared from that call.

You should see the number of paramedics out here that take their sweet arse time to do anything, just so they can get paid more. Also, they stand around in the triage area or the ambulance holding area for up to hours even, doing nothing, their patient was transferred into hospital care and they're good to go back out... but they stand there and draw as much money as they can out of the system. I'm not painting them all with the same brush, there are many good, honest and hard-working paramedics... but some... are not.

Ever wonder why it takes so long for an ambulance to show up? Here's part of the answer.

MarionMike will probably correct you, but  your are WAY outside your lanes about T-EMS operates.  1) Paramedics here make an hourly rate, no standby/call rate.  2) They didn't (and don't) rush to calls, because all that does is increase their own heart rate/breathing/andrenaline.  Last thing you as a patient need is a Medic performing possibly life saving interventions, and have them go into the Red before they get to you. 3) EMS response/dispatch times (as well as Fire/Police) here in Toronto (and most of Ontario) are dictated by basically a flowchart.  If your condition is low priority, you get a slower response plain and simple.  4) After the call there is quite a bit a paperwork that the crew has to do before they are back on the road, and thats AFTER the hospital admits their patient, which in Toronto can take quite awhile.

 

[JorgSlice]

MarionMike will probably correct you, but  your are WAY outside your lanes about T-EMS operates.  1) Paramedics here make an hourly rate, no standby/call rate.  2) They didn't (and don't) rush to calls, because all that does is increase their own heart rate/breathing/andrenaline.  Last thing you as a patient need is a Medic performing possibly life saving interventions, and have them go into the Red before they get to you. 3) EMS response/dispatch times (as well as Fire/Police) here in Toronto (and most of Ontario) are dictated by basically a flowchart.  If your condition is low priority, you get a slower response plain and simple.  4) After the call there is quite a bit a paperwork that the crew has to do before they are back on the road, and thats AFTER the hospital admits their patient, which in Toronto can take quite awhile.

Please read the first line where I say: "...can't say anything for Toronto, but here in BC..."

I was not speaking of TO/ON, I was speaking of my experiences working here in BC with, in, and around the BC Ambulance Service.

 

[R031button]

Can't say for much in Toronto, but here in BC I see it all the time. Paramedics out here get paid "$X/hr" (possibly about 12 or 15/hr) when on standby, then it jumps to around $30 or $30/hr when they receive a call. They continue to get paid with this "Call rate" until the patient has been brought to hospital, triaged, and the Paramedics radio in that they're cleared from that call.

You should see the number of paramedics out here that take their sweet arse time to do anything, just so they can get paid more. Also, they stand around in the triage area or the ambulance holding area for up to hours even, doing nothing, their patient was transferred into hospital care and they're good to go back out... but they stand there and draw as much money as they can out of the system. I'm not painting them all with the same brush, there are many good, honest and hard-working paramedics... but some... are not.

Ever wonder why it takes so long for an ambulance to show up? Here's part of the answer.

Big o'le negatory on that one there chief, on call rate for BC Paramedics is $2 an hour, stand by (ie: in the station) is $10.  I won't comment on the active / "call" rate as I couldn't find it with a simple google search, much like how you couldn't find the proper stand by or "on call" rate. BC Paramedics are the worst paid in country, and are treated like garbage despite volunteering for a difficult, stressful, and dangerous job.  Go pick your bone some where else.

 

[JorgSlice]

Big o'le negatory on that one there chief, on call rate for BC Paramedics is $2 an hour, stand by (ie: in the station) is $10.  I won't comment on the active / "call" rate as I couldn't find it with a simple google search, much like how you couldn't find the proper stand by or "on call" rate. BC Paramedics are the worst paid in country, and are treated like garbage despite volunteering for a difficult, stressful, and dangerous job.  Go pick your bone some where else.

Call-rate for a PCP BCAS Paramedic is $20.57 with less than 5 years of service. Sorry that I got the standby rate wrong, I figured after their last strike that it would have gone up a little. Guess I was wrong.

 

[R031button]

Actually you got the stand by rate ( 10 not 15), the on call rate ( 2 ), and the call rate wrong (20 not 30), but you did correct yourself on the call rate so good job. Not that any of this matters and it's all horribly off topic, but hey you took us there with erroneous information.

 

[JorgSlice]

Actually you got the stand by rate ( 10 not 15), the on call rate ( 2 ), and the call rate wrong (20 not 30), but you did correct yourself on the call rate so good job. Not that any of this matters and it's all horribly off topic, but hey you took us there with erroneous information.

Pending qualification level, it is 30. It all depends on whether they're EMR, PCP, PCP-IV, ACR, ITT/CCR.

 

[aesop081]

Probably a good time for you to be quiet and let this get back on track........ :

 

[The Bread Guy]

Probably a good time for you to be quiet and let this get back on track........ :

Good advice.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Bluebulldog]

The issue at hand with this incident, as well as others in the recent past are fairly easy to cite. Taking them on and adressing same on a political level takes a commitment that very few politicians are willing to stomach.

1. The YCJA ( Youth Criminal Justice Act) needs to be severely overhauled / scrapped. There is no deterrent, nor is there anything that promotes reform of the individual or prevention of crime, as every kid over age 11 knows that when they hit 18....presto, clean slate.

2. Immigration reform. The CPC are working on it, but lets face it, they're trying desperately to hang onto, and procure more voters in the GTA, this particular legislation won't do much in that area.

3. Our social services sector is flawed. Why would any social worker handling a caseload of OW ( Ontario Works, formerly social assistance) want to scrutinize their files, and follow up with clients with the intent of getting them employed, or kicking them off the roles for non-compliance? I have watched intake workers happily push people through, and then become apathetic when they don't do whats required, simply because by creating / perpetuating the crisis, they get to keep their jobs. Instead we have multi-generational social assistance recipients, who have never had an example set as to what it means to be a productive member of society.

4. The family unit. The fact that many youths in this demographic ( Carribean descent) are growing up fatherless contributes greatly. Again, lack of example set means morals and values are corrupted.

Gun control has no bearing on this issue / incident whatsoever. I'm sure the offenders meant to go register their handhuns...just hadn't gotten around to it.....

 

[my72jeep]

Toronto's new brilliant idea. Cant get rid of the gun's ban ammo.

Reproduced under the fair dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.



http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/toronto-city-council-curb-gun-violence-160506383.html

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Toronto's new brilliant idea. Cant get rid of the gun's ban ammo.

Reproduced under the fair dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.



http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/toronto-city-council-curb-gun-violence-160506383.html

You're late to the party.

Adam Vaughn brought his bullet ban motion to council last week. It was voted down. As a matter of fact, Vaughn even voted against his own motion. :

This 'journalist' obviously doesn't read, or listen, to the news or city hall meetings, very much.

 

[R031button]

Vic Toews has come out on the other side of this, attacking the recent striking down of mandatory minimal sentences for gun crime.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/07/18/pol-cp-toews-toronto-shooting-political-reaction.html

 

[my72jeep]

You're late to the party.

Adam Vaughn brought his bullet ban motion to council last week. It was voted down. As a matter of fact, Vaughn even voted against his own motion. :

This 'journalist' obviously doesn't read, or listen, to the news or city hall meetings, very much.

Sorry News takes a bit to get to Wawa.

 

[Cloud Cover]

In 1965, 25% of Blacks in the USA did not have a father. Today it is 72.5%.

That's a lot of test tubes.

 

[brihard]

1. The YCJA ( Youth Criminal Justice Act) needs to be severely overhauled / scrapped. There is no deterrent, nor is there anything that promotes reform of the individual or prevention of crime, as every kid over age 11 knows that when they hit 18....presto, clean slate.

This fails to take into account the fact that the majority of youth crime is merely testosterone poisoning, and that they literally grow out of it as they get older. Most youth crime is NOT the sort of offence that sent kids to the secure custody facility where I worked for eight months. The norm is not your habitual offenders with an increasing rap sheet of violent or serious offences. Most of it is petty, trivial crap, and in that the YCJA serves brilliantly for affording max discretion to several levels of the system to dispense with criminal prosecution for the sort of stupid crap that probably most of us got into at some point as kids.

There are provisions for adult sentencing for youths in some serious crimes- I've seen it used with the kids I worked with; in first degree murder in one instance, and aggravated sexual assault in another.

Most youth sentences, however, are given with it in mind that the majority will naturally desist; statistical analyses of patterns of offense clearly show this. The 'clean slate' is so that those who cut it out of their own accord - the majority - have a fair shot at a responsible adult life where they can actually still pursue employment opportunities. That's wholly consistent with the desire to get kids off of one track and onto another.

10% or them get 90% of the attention- negative of course. It's easy to take specific cases and build an emotional appeal around them, but that does *not* make sound policy. There is a lot more society can be doing to help kids. Writing them off as habitual criminals easier and earlier in life, and establishing consequences that will doom their chances at a successful adulthood are not among these options.