Turmoil in Libya (2011) and post-Gaddafi blowback

[old medic]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/03/17/draft.resolution.on.libya.pdf

The UN resolution
Self explanitory link.

 

[Kalatzi]

II find it interesting that NO mention was made of our potential involvment prior to the UN announcement.

No discussion in Parliament as in most previous cases involving deployments????

It would have been a rubber stamp, I suspect.

Just wondering what happened to all the`let them sort it ot themsselves`` from this thread.

I wish all the best, but feel we`ve been snokkered by the `Libyan Loon`,  again.

 

[willellis]

II find it interesting that NO mention was made of our potential involvment prior to the UN announcement.

No discussion in Parliament as in most previous cases involving deployments????

FYI, we do have a dedicated maritime operation in the region now. Not sure if that was the "involvement" that you were referring to.

 

[aesop081]

Would be nice to have F-35's right now  . . . .

Sure would be not in any way critical. The Libyan AD, while not completely useless, is not much of a threat. It will be dealt with swiftly, no F-35s needed. There are many ways to skin the SEAD/DEAD cat.........not all of them require putting a jet inside someone's MEZ.

 

[a_majoor]

Reaction:

http://volokh.com/2011/03/17/ecstatic-crowds-in-libya-celebrating-imminent-use-of-u-s-military-force-against-gaddafi/

Ecstatic crowds in Libya celebrating imminent use of U.S. military force against Gaddafi
David Kopel • March 17, 2011 7:08 pm

U.N. Security Council Resolution passes 10–0. Live feed from Benghazi on Al Jazeera English. The Resolution authorizes “all necessary measures” except military occupation of Libya. By my reading, the authorization includes destruction of Gaddafi’s anti-aircraft defenses, and of his air force and its mercenary pilots. As President Reagan once said, “We begin bombing in five minutes.” I hope.

UPDATE: Wall Street Journal reports that Egyptian army is shipping arms to the Libyan “rebels.” Which is to say, to the legitimate government of Libya. As the Declaration of Independence affirms, the only legitimate governments are those founded on the consent of the governed. Accordingly, the Gaddafi gang was never a legitimate government, merely a large gang of criminals who controlled a big territory. The French government’s diplomatic recognition of the legitimate Libyan government reflects this fact. @liamstack reports that France says it will be ready within hours to fly over Libya. @lilianwagdy says that Libyans in France are chanting “Zanga Zanga, Dar Dar, We will get you Muamar!” Vive la France! Vive Sarkozy! Vive les droits de l’homme!

 

[willellis]

Sure would be not in any way critical. The Libyan AD, while not completely useless, is not much of a threat. It will be dealt with swiftly, no F-35s needed. There are many ways to skin the SEAD/DEAD cat.........not all of them require putting a jet inside someone's MEZ.

I really don't want to get into another pissing contest with you, but what do you mean by the Libyan SAM's not being much of a threat? They have the continents second largest AA network, and just going from what you stated to me, if you remember:

"To be a threat, something has to have both intent and capability.

Iran has intent......the ships constitute capability.


.....threat."

I am not aware of the caps and lims of the AD net, but it seems to be a bit of contradiction.

Again, I am not being an a*%, but I would benefit from a bit more detail.

 

[willellis]

PM'd. Thanks again.

 

[old medic]

Radically varying reaction from the Gadaffi camp


http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110318/local/tripoli-ready-for-ceasefire-but-wants-to-discuss-how

Libya is ready for a ceasefire with the rebels battling Muammar Gaddafi, but wants to discuss in advance how it would be implemented, deputy foreign minister Khaled Kaaim said in Tripoli last night.

"We are ready for this decision (a ceasefire) but we require an interlocutor to discuss how to implement it," Kaaim told a news conference shortly after the UN Security Council voted to permit "all necessary measures" to impose a no-fly zone, protect civilian areas and impose a ceasefire.

Gaddafi's supporters were defiant, however. A crowd burst into a Tripoli hotel used by journalists to voice their defiance of the UN.

vs.
the article Baden Guy quoted from last night
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/99510/post-1027057.html#msg1027057

“We are coming tonight,” Colonel Qaddafi said. “You will come out from inside. Prepare yourselves from tonight. We will find you in your closets.”

Speaking on a call-in radio show, he promised amnesty for those “who throw their weapons away” but “no mercy or compassion” for those who fight. Explosions were heard in Benghazi early Friday, unnerving residents there,  Agence-France Presse reported.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131720311168561.html

...............However, Bays added that it was "worth injecting a note of caution" into the current excitement, as Gaddafi's troops were still standing firm.

The resolution came just a few hours after Muammar Gaddafi, the embattled Libyan leader, warned residents of Benghazi that his forces would show "no mercy" in an impending assault on the city.

"The matter has been decided ... we are coming," he said in a radio address on Thursday.

The Libyan leader called pro-democracy fighters in Benghazi "armed gangsters" and urged residents to attack them, saying: "You all go out and cleanse the city of Benghazi.

"We will track them down, and search for them, alley by alley, road by road ... Massive waves of people will be crawling out to rescue the people of Benghazi, who are calling out for help, asking us to rescue them. We should come to their rescue."

'We will be crazy too'

In an interview broadcast just before the Security Council voted on the resolution, Gaddafi dismissed the body's actions.

"The UN Security Council has no mandate. We don't acknowledge their resolutions," he told the Portuguese public Radiotelevisao Portuguesa.

He pledged to respond harshly to UN-sponsored attacks. "If the world is crazy, we will be crazy too," he said.

Speaking to reporters in Tripoli after the vote, Khalid Kaim, the Libyan deputy foreign minister, took a conciliatory tone, offering to negotiate a ceasefire with the rebels.

"We are ready for this decision (a ceasefire) but we require an interlocutor to discuss how to implement it," Kaim told a news conference.

"We discussed last night with the UN envoy (for Libya, Jordan's Abdul Ilah Khatib) and asked legitimate questions on the application of a ceasefire," he said.

Kaim indicated that Libya would "react positively to the UN resolution, and we will prove this willingness while guaranteeing protection to civilians."

Diplomats indicated that air strikes from a coalition led by Britain, France and the United States could be imminent; however, the UN resolution rules out sending foreign ground troops.

Susan Rice, the US ambassador to the UN, said "This resolution demands an immediate ceasefire and a complete end to violence and attacks against civilians,

"The security council has authorised the use of force, including enforcement of a no-fly zone to protect civilians and civilian areas targeted by Colonel Gaddafi, his intelligence and security forces and his mercenaries," Rice said.

Earlier the Libyan defence ministry warned that "any military operation against Libya will expose all air and maritime traffic in the Mediterranean to danger."

"Any civilian or military moving traffic will be the target of a Libyan counter-offensive," the official Jana news agency quoted the defence ministry spokesman as saying..........................

 

[nuclearzombies]

S-crew the Libyan loyalists. I'm sending cash to the rebels to help them. Go Libyan rebels Go!

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12787739

Libya 'to halt military action
Courtesy BBC World News Service
18 March 2011

Libya's government is declaring an immediate ceasefire, hours after a UN Security Council resolution backed a no-fly zone over the country.

Libyan Foreign Minister Mussa Kussa said the ceasefire was intended "to protect civilians".

The UN resolution supported "all necessary measures" to protect civilians, short of an occupation.

Western powers had been discussing how to enforce the no-fly zone.

Before the announcement of the ceasefire, fighting between troops loyal to Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi and rebel forces was reported to be continuing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

More from Al Jazeera English, shared with the usual caveats:

Libya has announced it will halt all military operations in the country following a decision by the United Nations Security Council to back a no-fly zone over the country.

Moussa Koussa, the Libyan foreign secretary, said his government was interested in protecting all civilians and foreigners in a statement televised on Friday.

"We decided on an immediate ceasefire and on an immediate stop to all military operations," he said, adding "[Libya] takes great interest in protecting civilians".

Koussa said because his country was a member of the United Nations it is "obliged to accept to UN Secutiry Council's resolutions".
Read the Libya Live Blog

Anita McNaught, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Tripoli, said "This is a very carefully crafted statement, very deliberate, almost forensic.

"Clearly the Libyans have been pouring over their United Nations charters to decide which bits to disagree with and on the whole they can't find very much."

"My hunch is that it is an effort to buy time because the Libyans I think have been taken completely by surprise by this sudden resurgence of an [international] consensus on action."

Tony Birtley, Al Jazeera's reporter in Benghazi, said pro-democracy fighters in the eastern rebel stronghold were positive but cautious about the announcement.

France also said it was remaining wary.

"We have to be very cautious. He [Gaddafi] is now starting to be afraid, but on the ground the threat has not changed," Bernard Valero, foreign ministry spokesman told the Reuters news agency.

(....)

The announcement came after Britain said it was about to start sending fighter jets and surveillance aircraft to military bases in the Mediterrranean in preparation for a no-fly zone.

David Cameron, the UK prime minister, said Tornado and Typhoon jets would be deployed imminently along with surveillance and re-fuelling planes ....

Look at what else has happened....

.... U.S. crude oil futures prices fell in volatile trading Friday after Libya declared a ceasefire to comply with a United Nations resolution passed overnight authorizing Western-led attacks to protect civilians.  U.S. crude had earlier pushed above $103 a barrel after the United
Nations authorization on Libya and with tensions remaining elevated in the oil-exporting Middle East.  In London, Brent crude LCOc1 also reversed and fell on the Libya news ....

 

[old medic]

Very hard to tell from media reports

Despite this Koussa's claims, this is in the globe and mail this morning;

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/libya-announces-ceasefire-as-west-threatens-strikes-within-hours/article1947039/

.............rebels pleaded for foreign aid before time ran out. They said the city of Misrata was being pounded by government forces on Friday morning.

France, a leading advocate of military action, said it was cautious about the ceasefire announcement and that the “threat on the ground has not changed.”

“We will judge him by his actions not his words,” U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron told BBC TV. .................

France and UK spearhead 'no-fly zone' in Libya
http://www.france24.com/en/20110318-cameron-sarkozy-lead-no-fly-zone-effort-libya-benghazi

France is to host talks on Saturday with senior politicians to discuss what course of action to follow in Libya. The UK's Prime Minister David Cameron says Britain will send fighter jets "in the coming hours" to enforce the no-fly zone.

AP - Prime Minister David Cameron says Britain will send Typhoon and Tornado fighter jets “in the coming hours” to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya.

Cameron told lawmakers Friday that Britain will join a U.N.-authorized operation to stop Moammar Gadhafi from launching “a brutal attack using air, land and sea forces” on the rebel-held city of Benghazi.Prime Minister David Cameron says Britain will send Typhoon and Tornado fighter jets “in the coming hours” to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya.

Cameron told lawmakers Friday that Britain will join a U.N.-authorized operation to stop Moammar Gadhafi from launching “a brutal attack using air, land and sea forces” on the rebel-held city of Benghazi.

Cameron says the move is about saving lives and protecting people in Libya and insists it was “not about choosing the government of Libya.”

Britain, France and NATO were holding emergency meetings Friday after the United Nations approved a no-fly zone over Libya. Cameron says Britain, France and Arab nations are to meet Saturday in Paris on no-fly zone..................

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... via Globe & Mail:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper said allied countries are encouraged by a last-minute cease-fire announcement in Libya, but that the military deployment in the area will continue to maintain pressure on the Gadhafi regime.

“The situation in Libya remains intolerable,” Mr. Harper told reporters as he argued in favour of further action to prevent more slaughters. “For that threat (of military action) to remain credible, adequate military forces must be in place.”

Confirming that Canada will send CF-18 fighters jets in response to this week’s UN Security Council resolution, Mr. Harper said that Canada’s position during the crisis in Lybia has been “strong and decisive,” including the evacuation of Canadian citizens and calls for Moammar Gadhafi to step down.

“One either believes in freedom, or one just says one believes in freedom,” he said. “The Libyan people have shown by their sacrifice that they believe in it. Assisting them is a moral obligation upon those of us who profess this great ideal.”

Before speaking to the media, Mr. Harper consulted with opposition leaders. He said Parliament will discuss the matter next week and will be consulted again if the deployment lasts more than three months ....

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I was just reading the CBC, the same posters who continuously voiced their concern over the worlds inaction are now angered by Mr. Harper's desire to send Canadian Aircraft into harms way. 

Justme posted

Why is Mr harper so eager to get into every war possible? These wars are costing us a fortune when we Canadians are already heavily in debt (>$500Billion).

While I'm glad for this UN security council approved initiative, The EU, Middle east and US can easily take care of this without Canada.

Please stop burning my tax dollars.

God these people make me laugh: "the world should do something about Libya, just make sure it doesn't involve us"

 

[The Bread Guy]

PM's statement in full:

“Good morning.

“Since the crisis in Libya first began, Canada has taken a strong and decisive position.

“Working closely with our allies, we have evacuated Canadian citizens, put in place tough sanctions, and called on the Gaddafi regime to stop the bloodshed and immediately step down.

“Despite these actions, the situation in Libya remains intolerable.

“Last night, the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution endorsing immediate action to protect Libyan citizens from the threat of further slaughter.

“Canada, in cooperation with our allies and other members of the international community, worked to gain support for this resolution.

“We will now take the urgent action necessary to support it.

“As a consequence, the Government has authorized the deployment of CF-18 fighter jets to join the HMCS Charlottetown in the region.

“If Colonel Gaddafi does not comply with this Security Council Resolution, Canadian Armed Forces working with other like-minded nations will enforce the resolution.

“We are encouraged by late-breaking news that, in response to the threat of military action, the Libyan regime has declared a ceasefire.

“However, for that threat to remain credible, adequate military forces must be in place.

“Our deployment will therefore proceed.

“I have spoken with the leaders of the Opposition parties to advise them of the Government’s decision and to indicate we will consult Parliament next week.

“I also indicated we will seek Parliament’s approval before extending the deployment beyond three months.

“I will just add this:

“One either believes in freedom, or one just says one believes in freedom.

“The Libyan people have shown by their sacrifice that they believe in it.

“Assisting them is a moral obligation upon those of us who profess this great ideal.

“Thank you.”

 

[old medic]

Alot of the short quotes being used from this Koussa  make him appear reasonable.
It's interesting to see some of the longer quotes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-libya-cease-fire-20110319,0,3782581.story

"It's very strange and unreasonable that the Security Council would allow the use of military power, and there are signs that this might indeed take place," Kusa told reporters. "This goes clearly against the U.N. charter and is a violation of the national sovereignty of Libya."

The details of the declared ceasefire were not clear. Kusa, who announced the cessation of hostilities before reporters, did not take any questions.

From the same article:

....The resolution quickly had an effect. Eurocontrol, which monitors aviation traffic, disclosed that Libya had stopped all flights around the country, Reuters reported.

Longtime Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi has insisted for days in interviews that almost the entire world supports him, except for a few nations such as France and Britain. But on Friday, even Turkey and Ukraine — which Libya had counted as an ally — declared their support for the no-fly zone. Denmark, a NATO member, announced Friday that it would dispatch six F-16 fighter jets and a military transport plane to help enforce the no-fly zone and to protect civilians, the Danish paper Politiken reported.

 

[benny88]

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper says Canada will send CF-18 fighter jets to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, despite Moammar Gadhafi's ceasefire declaration.

Canada's six war planes will join an international effort authorized by the United Nations Security Council on Thursday night.

"If Col. Gadhafi does not comply with this Security Council resolution, Canadian armed forces working with other like-minded nations will enforce this resolution," Harper said.

The deployment will likely involve about 125 people to support the jets.

"One either believes in freedom or one just says one just believes in freedom. The Libyan people have shown by their sacrifice that they believe in it. Assisting them is a moral obligation upon those of us who profess this great ideal." - Stephen Harper


More at link

http://www.680news.com/news/national/article/199398--canadian-war-planes-poised-to-enforce-libyan-no-fly-zone-harper



Anyone know where they might be based?

 

[GAP]

Italy

 

[Acer Syrup]

Image as of June 28, 2009

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.092996,20.262035&z=17&t=h&hl=en

 

[The Bread Guy]

CF-18s on their way soon....

Chief of the Air Staff, Lieutenant-General André Deschamps, will bid farewell to the departing CF-18s and crew today.

Date: 18 March 2011
Time: Between 12-noon and 2:00 p.m. 
Location: 3 Wing Bagotville, at Hangar 3.

Media are invited to attend the event.

Bonne chance!