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Trying to get out of Singles Quarters

PO2FinClk said:
Everyone already received free quarters, but not all use to receive free rations.

I had to pay for quarters at home when attached posted, which isn't the case anymore as I understand it!  Mind you, it was RMC and people do not occupate their rooms and still charged us for quarters... And yet, cadets were using the rooms...
 
SupersonicMax said:
I had to pay for quarters at home when attached posted, which isn't the case anymore as I understand it!  Mind you, it was RMC and people do not occupate their rooms and still charged us for quarters... And yet, cadets were using the rooms...
I was referring to the more typical Att-Posting and not those attributed by RMC or relating to BMQ, BOTC or any other of the sort which pertain to the indoctrinization to the military and occupations. Each of those have specific guidance pertaining to each which is why I mentioned in an earlier post that the course message, or any similar, should be consulted for SQ provisions and the requirement to pay for them. FOr those in the trainign system or BTL, consult your Course Instrs, ETP Instrs to RMC or anything of the sort as you may be subject to different requirements then the remainder of the CF.

Seeing as you were occupying SQ's where your "home" was, then yes you would continue to pay those as that is where you chose to reside. That is no different anyone going on att-posting will continue to pay rent or their mortgage while gone, they just won't have to pay for SQ at destination.
 
I happen to have the 'official policy' as of 27-03-2007, slightly edited to remove a few names from the ref line

Well, at least this is the most current policy for CFB Borden, etc that I have thus far.... Working as a clerk has its benifits

CFB Borden - Attach Posting Policy and Administrative Procedures/ Temporary Relocation Allowance

Refs: A. CANFORGEN 124/06
B. Email CWO ******** DCBA/CPO2 ******** CFSTG BOR

Attach Posting

1. The purpose of this email is to clarify the procedures for personnel Attach Posted to CFB Borden.  IAW with Ref A, effective 1 Jul 06, all personnel on Attach Posting are to be administered IAW the new policy which states "personnel on Attach Posting are entitled to all benefits IAW the CFDTI and are no longer entitled to Separation Expense.” 

2. As result of Ref A and clarification received via Ref B the following actions are to be taken:

a. personnel that commenced their Attach Posting prior to 1 Jul 06 are to have all previous claims (i.e. SE, POMV storage, and custodial fees) ceased and finalized effective 31 Jul 06.  Effective 1 Aug 06 these members are entitled to TD benefits (i.e.  incidentals at the rate prescribed within the CFTDI - $17.30 per day for the first 31 days after which a reduction will apply); and

b. personnel that were Attach Posted to Borden after 1 Jul 06 are entitled to the following:

(1) incidentals as per the CFTDI as outlined above; and

(2) free R&Q regardless of whether the member is maintaining a residence at the former place of duty or not as they are deemed on travel status IAW the CFDTI.

3. Any members that are Attach Posted and, as a result of this Attach Posting, are reunited with their DHG&E, are not entitled to incidentals or free R&Q.  However, if the member is ordered into quarters for the duration of a course then the member is entitled to free R&Q and incidentals IAW the CFTDI as they would then be deemed on travel status.

4. To effectively administer this policy effective immediately, all CFSTG and Lodger Units of Borden are required to utilize the following procedures:

a. members proceeding on Attach Posting from Borden will be issued a DND 1654 for travel to the new location and one to return to their home unit.  Incidentals will be managed by a CF52 to be paid by the gaining unit on a monthly basis;
b. members returning from an Attach Posting must have a copy of all incidental expense claims (CF52) attached to the returning DND 1654 for finalization;

c. in order to ensure that Borden’s policies are understood by the gaining unit, a copy of these Administrative Procedures should be included with the claim; and

d. for personnel that arrive in Borden on Attach Posting, the member’s travel claim is to be finalized and a file started for each member to commence paying incidentals on a monthly basis utilizing a CF52.  For those members that arrive with a Claims X claim for an Attach Posting they will be handled on a case-by-case basis through the WO I/C R&D/Claims/F&E.

Note: Under no circumstance will Claims X be used to administer an Attach Posting.  The National Claims X Analysts have identified that the software is not written to handle the Attach Posting policy at this time.

Any Units that have personnel on Attach Posting who are still receiving Separation Expense must immediately take action IAW paragraph 2.

Separation Allowance/Temporary Relocation

5 IAW Ref A, Separation Allowance is only applicable to those members with dependants who are posted away and do not move their DHG&E.  This applies to members on an IR, Prohibited and Restricted Posting. 

6. If a member acquires a spouse after his/her COS date and is participating in training such that his/her posting is prohibited, then the member is entitled to SA until such time as his/her posting becomes restricted.  This transition from prohibited to restricted will normally occur after successful completion of a Basic Military Qualification if the period of time between this date and the scheduled completion date of their trade course is greater than 180 days.  The majority of the posting messages from CFRG clearly identify this change in status, however, if questions exist, clarification should be requested from the Posting Authority prior to any benefits being paid.

7. To ensure this and all other policies are applied equally within all CFSTG and Lodger Units, all email traffic from DCBA is to be considered as information only.  All DCBA policy clarifications will be disseminated through Borden BOR with detailed guidance and/or instructions.


Mise en œuvre des modalités administratives qui s’appliquent aux indemnités d’affectation temporaire (AT) et de réinstallation temporaire (RT) à la BFC Borden

Réf : A. CANFORGEN 124/06
B. Email CWO ******* DCBA/CPO2 ******* CFSTG BOR

Affectation temporaire

1. L’objet du présent courriel consiste à clarifier les modalités qui s’appliquent à une AT à la BFC Borden. Conformément à la réf A, depuis le 1er juillet 2006, tout militaire qui fait l’objet d’une AT est assujetti à la nouvelle politique en la matière, selon laquelle il a droit à tous les avantages prévus dans les IFCVST et n’a plus droit à des frais d’absence du foyer (FAF).

2. Par suite de la diffusion du message cité à la réf A et des précisions transmises dans le courriel indiqué à la réf B, les modalités suivantes s’appliquent :

a. les demandes d’indemnité (FAF, entreposage d’un VP et frais d’entretien) de tout militaire qui a fait l’objet d’une AT avant le 1er juillet 2006 doivent être finalisées au 31 juillet 2006. Depuis le 1er août 2006, chaque militaire concerné a droit aux avantages de service temporaire (ST) (faux frais au taux prescrit dans les IFCVST - soit 17,30 $ par jour pendant les 31 premiers jours, après quoi une réduction s’applique);

b. tout militaire qui a fait l’objet d’une affectation temporaire à Borden après le 1er juillet 2006 a droit aux avantages suivants :

(1) faux frais prévus dans les IFCVST, tel qu’il a été susmentionné;

(2) vivres et logement (V&L) gratuits, peu importe s’il a une résidence à son ancien lieu de service ou non, étant donné qu’il est considéré comme étant en déplacement conformément aux IFCVST.

3. Tout militaire qui fait l’objet d’une AT au lieu où se trouvent ses P, AM et EP n’a pas droit aux faux frais ni aux V&L gratuits. Toutefois, si celui-ci est enjoint de demeurer dans les quartiers pendant la durée d’un cours, il a droit aux V&L gratuits et aux faux frais conformément aux IFCVST, puisqu’il est considéré comme étant en déplacement.

4. Pour garantir la mise en œuvre efficace de cette politique dès maintenant, toutes les unités du GISFC et les unités hébergées de la BFC Borden doivent se conformer aux modalités suivantes :

a. tout militaire de Borden qui fait l’objet d’une AT se voit remettre un formulaire DND 1654 pour le déplacement à destination de son nouveau lieu de service et un pour le retour à son unité d’appartenance. Les faux frais sont réglés mensuellement par l’unité bénéficiaire au moyen d’un formulaire CF 52;

b. tout militaire qui revient d’une AT doit joindre une copie de chaque demande de remboursement de faux frais (CF 52) au formulaire DND 1654 qui lui a été remis pour le retour;

c. une copie du présent document doit être jointe à chaque demande de remboursement pour que l’unité bénéficiaire concernée comprenne bien en quoi consistent les modalités administratives qui s’appliquent à Borden;

d. dans le cas de chaque militaire qui fait l’objet d’une AT à Borden, il y a lieu de finaliser sa demande d’indemnités de déplacement et d’ouvrir un dossier à son nom pour que les faux frais soient payés mensuellement au moyen d’un formulaire CF 52. Dans le cas des militaires qui arrivent avec une demande Claims-X, il y aura lieu de procéder au cas par cas par l’entremise de l’Adj Resp Arrivées et départs/Demandes d’indemnités/Meubles et effets.

Nota : Il ne faut jamais utiliser Claims-X dans le cas d’une AT. Le responsable de Claims-X à l’échelle nationale a indiqué que le logiciel n’est pas conçu pour mettre en œuvre la politique pertinente à ce moment-ci.

Toute unité comptant des membres en AT qui reçoivent toujours des FAF doit prendre immédiatement les mesures dont il est fait état au paragraphe 2.

FAF/RT

5 Conformément à la réf A, la politique de RT ne s’applique qu’aux militaires qui sont affectés à une nouvelle unité et qui ne déménagent pas leurs D, PM et EP. Plus précisément, la politique s’applique aux militaires qui font l’objet d’une affectation en restriction imposée, d’une affectation sous réserve ou d’une affectation avec restrictions.

6. Lorsqu’un militaire acquiert un conjoint ou un conjoint de fait après sa date de changement d’effectif et qu’il doit suivre un cours et donc faire l’objet d’une affectation sous réserve, il a droit aux FAF jusqu’à ce qu’il fasse l’objet d’une affectation avec restrictions. La transition d’une affectation sous réserve à une affectation avec restrictions s’effectue normalement après la réussite de la Qualification militaire de base si la durée de la période entre la date de la fin de la qualification et la date de la fin du cours d’instruction professionnelle est de plus de 180 jours. La majorité des messages d’affectation du GRFC font état du changement d’affectation. Néanmoins, dans le doute, il faut consulter l’autorité d’affectation avant de verser des indemnités.

7. Pour garantir l’application uniforme des présentes modalités et de politiques connexes au sein des unités du GISFC et des unités hébergées de la BFC Borden, le contenu des courriels transmis par le DRASA ne doit être considéré que comme de l’information. La SR BFC Borden communiquera dans chaque cas des directives ou instructions pertinentes.

http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2006/124-06_e.asp

And the Ref thats listed, slightly edited to remove names, etc...
Before I answer your questions, clarification on Att Posting benefits and TRSA is required.  Temporary Relocation is basically the new name for Imposed Restriction and Seperation Allowance is the new name for Seperation Expense.  These two terms and associated benefits are used only when members are posted and request an imposed restriction.  As far as Attach Posting is concerned, effective 1 Jul 06 members on Att Posting now receive benefits IAW the CFTDTI (R&Q and Incidentals).  With regards to the applicability to the benefits associated with Attach Posting, they apply to all CF members while att posted outside the geographical bounderies of their unit.  The definition contained in reference to TD in the CFTDTI means that TD does not apply to members undergoing Basic Recruit Training.  The term BTL was used with this intent.  It will be changed to alleviate confusion in the next version.  Until then, to reiterate, Att Posting benefits apply to all CF members after completion of the BRT.  CFSTG Borden was previously advised of this clarification.  Hope this clarifies the policy.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, 27, September, 2006 09:39 AM
To:
Cc:
Subject: Attach posting policy and Administrative procedures/ Temporary Relocation Allowance

Good morning Sir,

Ref A. CANFORGEN 124/06
B.  CFTDI Sec 3
C.  Email - students on SQ/DP1 trg - further to our telcon Tue 2006-09-26 10:56 AM
D.  Email -  Rations and Quarters Tue 2006-09-26 12:36 PM
E. Email - CFB Borden - Attach posting policy and Administrative procedures/ Temporary Relocation Allowance Fri 2006-09-22 10:58 AM

I am trying to obtain official clarification regarding the application of the new entitlements for Separation Allowance and Temporary Relocation. I have received numerous emails from various organizations that deal specifically with CF members who have completed their Basic Military Qualification and are awaiting their trades qualification training. These personnel make up the bulk of the personnel that we deal with here in Borden and are being impacted a great deal as a result of Ref A.
The main issue that needs clarification is whether CF members who have completed their Basic Military Qualification are entitled to the incidentals and free R&Q when attach posted to a Base or whether they are considered “CF members on BTL training. Depending on how the question is phrased, what terminology is used and how the regulation is interpreted by the personnel answering the question, different applications of the regulations are occurring. As a result, various Bases throughout Canada feel that the manner in which they are applying the benefits has been confirmed by DCBA as the correct application as demonstrated in Ref D.
Having spoken to you personally in an effort to clarify the definition of Temporary Duty (Ref B) as it is related to “excluding CF members on BTL training”, I am confident that the intent of the policy is that these personnel do qualify for Separation Allowance and Temporary Relocation benefits. However, as in Ref C, others are using this same definition to justify non-payment of the benefits as outlined in CANFORGEN 124/06.
Understandably, time is required to make the necessary changes to the Aide Memoire for this new policy. At the same time, until some sort of official statement or policy document is issued to clarify the issue, personnel will continue to suffer from inequality as a result of the varying policy interpretations at the Base level. In order to minimize the difficulties at the Unit level within CFSTG Borden, we intend to provide a Base level clarification to all Units, similar to the draft included at Ref E, in an effort to deal with this issue once and for all.
Receiving clarification on this matter is paramount prior to taking action as it impacts member’s financial entitlements. The financial burdens, especially at the Private and Corporal pay range, would be burdensome if it were required to be reversed. Your prompt assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated. If you require any further clarification in order to deal with this situation, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

 
RetiredRoyal said:
Is Borden a base where they let single pers occupy married quarters? I know when I was in Edmonton that singles often occupied the row housing in Griesbach.

In a word, nope.  There aren't enough PMQs for everyone, even the married people are having a hard time getting in right now.  I only know of one guy who gets to live with his non-common-law girlfriend, but they are on a lease in Barrie, so the military figured it would be better for him to stay there than to have to pay his landlord to get out of the lease.

But as far as the rest of us go, shacks it is.  If you're here in Borden for a long course though, talk to your course director about moving into A-148 (same rooms as A-150, but only 2 people per room) or the mods, which are also 2 to a room.  A-148's really not that bad.  I just wish we could get off rations...  you're right, $400 a month for Borden mess food is horrible.  And what they're doing in the mess now is insanity...  You can only get full meals on one side, and the other side only has a la carte stuff.  Blah, 4 months to go, hehe.

Good luck in Halifax... are you avs, bobby?
 
Sorry for bringing up a old topic, but it fits the best.

My situation is, I am a reservist switching to AVN Tech. I will  be receiving a recruit school bypass. I have been in 3.5 years. Was on Task Force 1/07 with Hotel Company 2 RCR.

My question is, when I get to Borden, will I be able to get my own place off base, I don't even care if it's a Q, I just want to have my own place. My relation ship with my current Girlfriend has already survived 8 months of work up training, 6 months of Tour, and numerous exercises before that. It realistically is to much to ask her to hold on another year.

Basically, can I just get a apartment, make all the timings, and what not and everything will be good?

This, you would think, would be a concern at first, when I was applying for the CT, but it wasn't until I found this topic.

Thanks for any advice, or comments.
 
        Having spent time where you will be attending your course, I'll be straightforward and say that when dealing with issues such as these common sense rarely prevails and the chances could be slim. Are you common-law with your girlfriend? If so, that is the only way you can get a PMQ. If you can find an empty one. When I left they were pretty much all occupied. Some common-law people managed to obtain a lease on an apartment or whatever in Barrie. Some single people (mostly ones in their mid to late thirties who felt they had enough previous TI/life experience to not need to have their hand held 24/7) kept their bedspace in the shacks, paid the monthly ration deduction, and rented a room in a buddy's PMQ/house in Barrie/wherever. I can understand why they would do this from a quality of life perspective. I had a hard enough time dealing with the immature people there and I am in my twenties. However living in the shacks can be beneficial for attending the twice weekly 0645 inspection timings. Winter weather and the conditions of the road in from Barrie are unpredictable and the staff will not tolerate that as an excuse for lateness/absence.
      You may be spending a bit of time on the PAT platoon before your course starts. I would recommend waiting the extra few weeks/months until you are on course. THEN go and discuss your request with your course staff and find out your options. Unfortunately there are so many people on the PAT platoon now that it is sometimes difficult getting things such as this dealt with properly. Good Luck!
 
J-Swift said:
Sorry for bringing up a old topic, but it fits the best.

My situation is, I am a reservist switching to AVN Tech. I will  be receiving a recruit school bypass. I have been in 3.5 years. Was on Task Force 1/07 with Hotel Company 2 RCR.

My question is, when I get to Borden, will I be able to get my own place off base, I don't even care if it's a Q, I just want to have my own place. My relation ship with my current Girlfriend has already survived 8 months of work up training, 6 months of Tour, and numerous exercises before that. It realistically is to much to ask her to hold on another year.

Basically, can I just get a apartment, make all the timings, and what not and everything will be good?

This, you would think, would be a concern at first, when I was applying for the CT, but it wasn't until I found this topic.

Thanks for any advice, or comments.

If you are commonlaw, you can get a Q.  If not?  Well, you could always rent an apartment, but you won't be able to get out of paying rations and quarters, (to the tune of $580-ish a month).  You can only get out of that if you have dependants.  The timings are not too hard to make.  2 in-room inspections a week in the shacks, and if you get a Q, you just have to meet those timings at the drill hall.  There are some apartments in Angus (right outside the base), but Barrie is a 20 minute drive when the traffic and weather are both good.

The average PAT wait right now is a couple-few months.  Some get lucky...  Usually CT's and reservists have a way shorter wait time than new guys.  Consider yourself lucky if you only have a month or two.  Anything else, including AVN questions, let me know.  I graduate the AVN program tomorrow, so I've done my time in Borden, hehe.
 
        Congrats on graduating. You must be glad to get out of there. Looking forward to Cold Lake? Us Cold Lake people out here in Hfx are supposed to leave 2 weeks Friday, but we have no messages yet! Gotta love when screenings get commenced a month late and then sit on soneones desk for another month! I think we will be reporting late ::)
 
You'll enjoy Cold Lake. Make sure you get your full winter kit when you first get here, cause you'll need it.  ;D
 
Sparkplugs said:
If you are commonlaw, you can get a Q.  If not?  Well, you could always rent an apartment, but you won't be able to get out of paying rations and quarters, (to the tune of $580-ish a month).  You can only get out of that if you have dependants.  The timings are not too hard to make.  2 in-room inspections a week in the shacks, and if you get a Q, you just have to meet those timings at the drill hall.  There are some apartments in Angus (right outside the base), but Barrie is a 20 minute drive when the traffic and weather are both good.

The average PAT wait right now is a couple-few months.  Some get lucky...  Usually CT's and reservists have a way shorter wait time than new guys.  Consider yourself lucky if you only have a month or two.  Anything else, including AVN questions, let me know.  I graduate the AVN program tomorrow, so I've done my time in Borden, hehe.

thanks for the info. its comforting to know I can get my own place, however thats a crap load of money. :S But, nonetheless thanks for the information.
 
I'm gonna go ahead and resurrect a dead thread. I am trying to vacate single quarters myself. I am a PAT who came from the reserves and I am at the school which I will be training at. I know I can move out on completion of my 3's but that could very well take a year or two. For what its worth I've completed 3's in 2 other trades already...which is kind of why I want to live on my own like a grown up now.

School Standing Orders state clearly that an OC can authorize a single member on the BTL to move out. Anyone have any advice? Or references that might be pertinent?
 
Well, if your Standing Orders say the OC can authorize you to move out, then fire a memo away (to the OC, through your CoC) defending your case, referencing he Standing Order.
 
To add to what SS Max said, remember it says "may".  The OC doesn't have to.  Make a good case.  You might want to check around with any other of the single folks who managed to escape SQs and see what worked for them.

Also, if you haven't, I'd be talking to your immediate superior(s).  Having their support as this memo goes up the CoC is probably going to help you out oodles IMO. 
 
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