Trust in our Institutions

[Blackadder1916]

Agreed re: anything’s possible given the will, but it’s the most partisan folks, I suspect, who’ll howl loudest about Team A wanting to change Team B and C’s rules.

But when Teams A, B, and C rules are almost identical concerning membership eligibility and leadership voting, there probably won't be a lot of howling. Ontario NDP'ers (the NDP delegates membership/voting eligibility to the individual provincial entities) might object that they would have to raise the voting age to 14 vice the current 13.

 

[RangerRay]

I can appreciate the impossibility of being able to prosecute these offences because of our inability to get intelligence to = evidence. The first report I saw of this NSICOP report noted that charges were unlikely. But I get so frustrated when I know that if this happened in any other liberal democracy, these pols would be heading to the gaol. Or at the very least, named, shamed and told in no uncertain terms to resign.

I want heads to roll, but I fear these traitors will continue ply away in anonymity.

I weep for Canada.

 

[RangerRay]

Interesting insight from Wesley Wark.

Agents of influence in our political class

Or, what is to be done?

open.substack.com

 

[OldSolduer]

I can appreciate the impossibility of being able to prosecute these offences because of our inability to get intelligence to = evidence. The first report I saw of this NSICOP report noted that charges were unlikely. But I get so frustrated when I know that if this happened in any other liberal democracy, these pols would be heading to the gaol. Or at the very least, named, shamed and told in no uncertain terms to resign.

I want heads to roll, but I fear these traitors will continue ply away in anonymity.

I weep for Canada.

In Soviet Union they'd simply disappear. As I am sure they do to this day. Add China and N Korea to the mix...

 

[dimsum]

I can appreciate the impossibility of being able to prosecute these offences because of our inability to get intelligence to = evidence. The first report I saw of this NSICOP report noted that charges were unlikely. But I get so frustrated when I know that if this happened in any other liberal democracy, these pols would be heading to the gaol. Or at the very least, named, shamed and told in no uncertain terms to resign.

I want heads to roll, but I fear these traitors will continue ply away in anonymity.

I weep for Canada.

US and Australia enter the chat

 

[RangerRay]

I think in the UK and AUS, people were forced to resign, no?

The Mueller investigation saw many people indicted, convicted and jailed for far less. Unfortunately, they were pardoned by their benefactor.

 

[lenaitch]

I can appreciate the impossibility of being able to prosecute these offences because of our inability to get intelligence to = evidence. The first report I saw of this NSICOP report noted that charges were unlikely. But I get so frustrated when I know that if this happened in any other liberal democracy, these pols would be heading to the gaol. Or at the very least, named, shamed and told in no uncertain terms to resign.

I want heads to roll, but I fear these traitors will continue ply away in anonymity.

I weep for Canada.

Perhaps a few judiciously timed and placed 'leaks' to the media, and let the court of public opinion define their future. Cheaper in the long run and the official response can be shock and dismay, pledges to take the matter seriously and fully investigate the leak.

 

[dimsum]

I think in the UK and AUS, people were forced to resign, no?

The Mueller investigation saw many people indicted, convicted and jailed for far less. Unfortunately, they were pardoned by their benefactor.

I don’t know if they resigned because of it or if they were already a former politician, but this was fairly recent in Australia. They definitely didn’t pursue charges though.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-intelligence-chief-reveals-details-foreign-spy-operation-2024-02-28/

 

[Cloud Cover]

Yeah, like cray cray folks complaining about rainbows

Rainbow dock in B.C. town sparks petition seeking return to ‘previous state’ | Globalnews.ca

The District of Clearwater financially supported the dock's staining, saying it shows support for the local Pride group and reflects the town's commitment to inclusivity.

globalnews.ca

It cost 20,000., in Clearwater FFS.
If you know Clearwater, 20K is a lot of money.

 

[GR66]

It cost 20,000., in Clearwater FFS.
If you know Clearwater, 20K is a lot of money.

If you read the article it was actually $2,200 not $20,000 and they decided to do the dock rather than the originally planned crosswalk which would have cost $6000. They also noted that the (unfortunately inevitable) vandalism which was expected to take place (and in fact did take place on the 2nd or 3rd day...before the staining was even completed) is easier to repair by flipping or re-staining a few board compared to a mural or painted cross-walk.

But I guess it makes sense to pay another $2,200 to have it re-stained back to the original colour because it's so offensive to some people?

 

[Kirkhill]

Threat management under the 5 Eyes and Westminster Parliamentary rules.

....

Australia - Feb 28 2024.

First sentence for foreign interference handed down | Australian Federal Police

A Melbourne man has been sentenced to two years and nine months’ imprisonment for trying to influence a Federal Parliamentarian on behalf of a foreign government, including a foreign intelligence agency.

www.afp.gov.au

Australian politician ‘sold out’ to foreign regime after being recruited by spies, Asio boss says

Mike Burgess outlines activities of spy network dubbed ‘the A-team’ in annual threat assessment, without naming former politician nor the country involved

www.theguardian.com

....

UK - Jan 2022

MI5 warning over 'Chinese agent' in Parliament

The rare alert sent to MPs comes after a long-running investigation into Christine Ching Kui Lee.

www.bbc.com

UK - April 22 2024

Parliamentary researcher charged with spying for China

Metropolitan Police confirms Christopher Cash has been charged alongside Christopher Berry

www.telegraph.co.uk

A parliamentary researcher has been charged with carrying out espionage work on behalf of China.

The Metropolitan Police announced that Christopher Cash had been charged alongside Christopher Berry.

Nick Price, the head of the Crown Prosecution Service special crime and counter-terrorism division, said: “The the Crown Prosecution Service special crime and counter-terrorism division has today authorised the Metropolitan Police to charge two men with espionage offences.

“Christopher Berry, 32, and Christopher Cash, 29, will be charged with providing prejudicial information to a foreign state, China, and will appear at Westminster Magistrates’ Court on Friday, April 26.

“Criminal proceedings against the defendants are active. No one should report, comment or share information online which could in any way prejudice their right to a fair trial.”

The two men have been charged with offences under the Official Secrets Act.

Between Dec 28 2021 and Feb 3 2023, Mr Berry, from Witney, Oxfordshire is alleged to have “obtained, collected, recorded, published or communicated notes, documents or information” which may be “directly or indirectly useful to an enemy”.

Mr Cash, from Whitechapel, London, faces the same charge relating to a period spanning January 20 2022 to Feb 3 2023. Scotland Yard said the foreign state to which the charges relate is China.

The men were initially arrested in March last year before being released on bail.

Commander Dominic Murphy, head of the Counter Terrorism Command, said it was “an extremely complex investigation into very serious allegations”.

He added: “We’ve worked closely with the Crown Prosecution Service as our investigation has progressed, and this has led to the two men being charged today.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Interesting response from Team Blue on this one re: naming names, via a Canadian Press story ....

Freeland says committee finding that some MPs aided foreign interference 'concerning'

OTTAWA — It is "concerning" that a parliamentary committee report says some Canadian MPs "wittingly" aided foreign state actors, but it is up to law enforcement to decide if they broke the law, Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland said Tuesday.

ca.news.yahoo.com

View attachment 85766
Granted, we don't know if this is the entire response from Team Blue, but without evidence to the contrary, I trust (with about 99.9% certainty) that CP would have mentioned any clear "yeah, name 'em all" or "no, we shouldn't disrupt investigations/presume guilt until proven" answers.

The latest on Team Blue's response - from Hansard yesterday ...

Debates (Hansard) No. 325 - June 5, 2024 (44-1) - House of Commons of Canada

Debates (Hansard) No. 325 - June 5, 2024 (44-1) - House of Commons of Canada

www.ourcommons.ca

... PP says "tell us the names, dammit!"

 

[The Bread Guy]

But when Teams A, B, and C rules are almost identical concerning membership eligibility and leadership voting, there probably won't be a lot of howling. Ontario NDP'ers (the NDP delegates membership/voting eligibility to the individual provincial entities) might object that they would have to raise the voting age to 14 vice the current 13.

Australia & the UK seem to have gotten around this by criminalizing interference in internal political processes without government telling parties how to run their political business. As posted elsewhere, Australia's managed at least one conviction on interference -- with a serving Minister, not with an internal political process, but still ...

Only skimmed through the latest report (PDF), but spotted this & am sharing to give folks a sense of the range of stuff that's been dug up and reportedly passed along to the RCMP .....

I can see why the report sounds so impatient, given the committee and other groups have warned before.

Edited to add: For every action, a reaction ....

Don't rush committee study of foreign interference bill, civil society groups urge

OTTAWA - Ten civil society organizations are warning that the unusually swift parliamentary study of a bill to counter foreign interference could result in flawed laws that violate people's rights.

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

 

[RangerRay]

Andrew Coyne wrote in the Globe and Mail that we probably won’t find out any names unless a member of NSICOP leaks them to another MP who then reveals them in the House under parliamentary privilege. Given that all parties could be embarrassed by such a revelation, and that it probably wouldn’t be too hard to determine who the leak is and prosecute them, the chances of that happening are next to nil.

 

[dimsum]

Andrew Coyne wrote in the Globe and Mail that we probably won’t find out any names unless a member of NSICOP leaks them to another MP who then reveals them in the House under parliamentary privilege. Given that all parties could be embarrassed by such a revelation, and that it probably wouldn’t be too hard to determine who the leak is and prosecute them, the chances of that happening are next to nil.

Reminds me of the scene in Legend (the Tom Hardy gangster movie) where the British PM (or someone like that) gets a tip about some opposition party’s MPs in a compromising position and wants to publicize it, but then finds out that one of his MPs is also in that position. So he quashes it.

 

[RangerRay]

Andrew Coyne wrote in the Globe and Mail that we probably won’t find out any names unless a member of NSICOP leaks them to another MP who then reveals them in the House under parliamentary privilege. Given that all parties could be embarrassed by such a revelation, and that it probably wouldn’t be too hard to determine who the leak is and prosecute them, the chances of that happening are next to nil.

Here’s a paywalled link to the column, if anyone is interested.

Opinion: We need to know the names of the traitor MPs, but don’t count on any of the parties to give them up

The NSICOP report revealed that parliamentarians have willingly collaborated with foreign actors, yet we are likely to face a conspiracy of silence

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[Pelorus]

As if this came out of nowhere.

You know damn well that people are outraged because it is believable.

If that story had come out 15 years ago, we'd laugh it off. But it is precisely because we know many institutions and organizations are in fact using and propagating such phrases that our collective frustration erupts so easily when the highest court appears to take its part in the circus.

If this is fine, why even have news any more? If "well it could be true!" is the standard, why not fire every outrage peddler that writes OpEds for the National Post and Toronto Sun and replace them with a chat bot that spins fake outrage bait all day?

None of us are immune from getting suckered by an explosive-sounding piece that aligns with our biases or perceptions of the world, so why can't we accept that we took the bait when it happens and learn from it?

 

[OldSolduer]

Reminds me of the scene in Legend (the Tom Hardy gangster movie) where the British PM (or someone like that) gets a tip about some opposition party’s MPs in a compromising position and wants to publicize it, but then finds out that one of his MPs is also in that position. So he quashes it.

But Brit MPs only get caught boffing the ladies - or dressing up like Little Bo Peep.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But Brit MPs only get caught boffing the ladies - or dressing up like Little Bo Peep.

Or, more 'uniquely' ...

Milligan was found dead in his house at 64 Black Lion Lane, Hammersmith, London, by his secretary Vera Taggart on 7 February 1994. Milligan had failed to appear in the House of Commons as expected, and so Taggart went to look for him.[4] Milligan's corpse was found naked except for a pair of stockings and suspenders, with an electrical flex tied around his neck, his head covered and an orange in his mouth.[5][4] The coroner concluded that he had died in the early hours of 7 February.[4]

Stephen Milligan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FSTO]

Or, more 'uniquely' ...

Milligan was found dead in his house at 64 Black Lion Lane, Hammersmith, London, by his secretary Vera Taggart on 7 February 1994. Milligan had failed to appear in the House of Commons as expected, and so Taggart went to look for him.[4] Milligan's corpse was found naked except for a pair of stockings and suspenders, with an electrical flex tied around his neck, his head covered and an orange in his mouth.[5][4] The coroner concluded that he had died in the early hours of 7 February.[4]

Stephen Milligan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Suspenders as in garters or suspenders to keep your pants up?