Trump administration 2024-2028

[dimsum]

Not sure about the first bit of your statement,,, Cartels spring to mind.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

Trump has got to be dumber than even I thought if he doesn’t think that the cartels will have a say in this dumbassery. Or that the Mexican government can control them.

 

[dimsum]

Possibly. Are we and the US in agreement that we are upholding the terms of the agreement? Or is there room for lawyers to make a dollar?

Well part of the agreement is a “free trade” thing, which tariffs are definitely not.

 

[QV]

That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

Trump has got to be dumber than even I thought if he doesn’t think that the cartels will have a say in this dumbassery. Or that the Mexican government can control them.

I don't think Trump is shy from using US military resources to spank any cartel. And I don't think he'd care what Mexico has to say about it... the massive in-flow of narcotics are a national security threat.

 

[Haggis]

I don't think Trump is shy from using US military resources to spank any cartel. And I don't think he'd care what Mexico has to say about it... the massive in-flow of narcotics are a national security threat.

Tom Clancy's "Clear and Present Danger" enters the chat.

 

[brihard]

I don't think Trump is shy from using US military resources to spank any cartel. And I don't think he'd care what Mexico has to say about it... the massive in-flow of narcotics are a national security threat.

Invading Mexico with military forces would be a pretty bold move. No way at all that could possibly go wrong. They’d need one hell of a CSAR plan.

 

[Quirky]

I don't think Trump is shy from using US military resources to spank any cartel.

Invading Mexico with military forces would be a pretty bold move.

Who said anything about an invasion?

 

[QV]

Invading Mexico with military forces would be a pretty bold move. No way at all that could possibly go wrong. They’d need one hell of a CSAR plan.

Yeah, well... I doubt it would an invasion of Mexico. More likely surgical strikes and raids with a complicit but unhappy Mexican government under threat of economic sanctions of some kind.

 

[brihard]

If you put troops into the territory and on the soil of a foreign country, you’re invading their territory, even if only briefly. It’s unrealistic to think a military campaign against the cartels could achieve much without some boots on the ground work. Doing that on their home soil would be a roll of the dice each time, and even if you play with loaded dice, eventually you get a roll you weren’t hoping for.

 

[OldSolduer]

If you put troops into the territory and on the soil of a foreign country, you’re invading their territory, even if only briefly. It’s unrealistic to think a military campaign against the cartels could achieve much without some boots on the ground work. Doing that on their home soil would be a roll of the dice each time, and even if you play with loaded dice, eventually you get a roll you weren’t hoping for.

IMO the war on drugs (which has failed miserably) has to start in the USA's own backyard, and ours too. First by getting those on drugs off them thereby reducing the demand for drugs. Second, start tossing dealers in jail for lengthy terms.

 

[dimsum]

IMO the war on drugs (which has failed miserably) has to start in the USA's own backyard, and ours too. First by getting those on drugs off them thereby reducing the demand for drugs. Second, start tossing dealers in jail for lengthy terms.

Absolutely. Drug runners aren’t running drugs just for kicks.

 

[dimsum]

Yeah, well... I doubt it would an invasion of Mexico. More likely surgical strikes and raids with a complicit but unhappy Mexican government under threat of economic sanctions of some kind.

I think you overestimate the resources and loyalties of the Mexican govt, and underestimate the power of the cartels.

 

[OldSolduer]

Absolutely. Drug runners aren’t running drugs just for kicks.

Correct. Our capacity for tolerating those addicted to a legal or illegal substance knows no bounds. In fact its encouraged - here drink this!!! Hey Weed is legal!!!
Substances such as alcohol (its a poison but we all here have figured that out) and weed (although it does have medicinal benefits) are like anything else - use too much and its detrimental.

 

[QV]

IMO the war on drugs (which has failed miserably) has to start in the USA's own backyard, and ours too. First by getting those on drugs off them thereby reducing the demand for drugs. Second, start tossing dealers in jail for lengthy terms.

If the drugs, particularly highly addictive drugs, are free flowing into the country the first that needs to happen is interdicting the flow. Everything else you speak of is secondary. Border security, migration controls, striking the production sites and people involved.

I think you overestimate the resources and loyalties of the Mexican govt, and underestimate the power of the cartels.

I don't know about that. But I think if the US really wanted to, they could make a massive impact (probably impossible to completely cease it). The US just needs the right political leadership to do this, and with Trump they will have it.

Special forces, intelligence, advanced technologies, but most especially the political will would be able to achieve this no problem.

 

[dimsum]

Correct. Our capacity for tolerating those addicted to a legal or illegal substance knows no bounds. In fact its encouraged - here drink this!!! Hey Weed is legal!!!
Substances such as alcohol (its a poison but we all here have figured that out) and weed (although it does have medicinal benefits) are like anything else - use too much and its detrimental.

Yes, except people aren’t running alcohol or cannabis into Canada because it’s legal. The bordering northern US states also have both alcohol and cannabis as legal.

I mean, if we’re talking about being addicted to legal substances, caffeine and sugar enter the chat (as I’m drinking my coffee with cream and sugar).

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well, this is awkward...

Man pleads guilty to role in B.C. freight train cross-border human smuggling scheme​

Court documents detail 'undocumented non-citizen smuggling operations' in Metro Vancouver​

At the same time as U.S. president-elect Donald Trump accuses Canada of failing to secure its border with the United States, an Oregon resident has pleaded guilty to conspiring to transport dozens of undocumented migrants smuggled across the B.C. border by foot and freight train.

According to documents filed last week in U.S. District Court in Seattle, Jesus Ortiz-Plata signed a plea deal admitting to helping at least 25 people stay in Washington state illegally, in exchange for a sentence of up to 18 months in jail.

The charges relate to seven separate cross-border smuggling cases — including two where dozens of people were found hiding in rail cars among items like bulk plastic pellets.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/migrants-smuggling-guilty-freight-border-1.7396013?cmp=newsletter_CBC%20British%20Columbia_1633_1805657

 

[Remius]

If the drugs, particularly highly addictive drugs, are free flowing into the country the first that needs to happen is interdicting the flow. Everything else you speak of is secondary. Border security, migration controls, striking the production sites and people involved.



I don't know about that. But I think if the US really wanted to, they could make a massive impact (probably impossible to completely cease it). The US just needs the right political leadership to do this, and with Trump they will have it.

Special forces, intelligence, advanced technologies, but most especially the political will would be able to achieve this no problem.

Runs counter to no new wars under trump. Cartels have embedded elements already on US soil. I’m sure everyone would be pleased to have an insurgency on the border or even within the US border.

 

[QV]

Runs counter to no new wars under trump. Cartels have embedded elements already on US soil. I’m sure everyone would be pleased to have an insurgency on the border or even within the US border.

With hundreds of thousands of deaths every year from the drug epidemic it seems to me there is already a war, this would be the reaction (and fits his theme of counterpunching). As for cartels embedded on US soil, fairly certain the US could swiftly deal with that with the right leadership.

I suppose, one could just sit on their hands and say "whelp, wouldn't want to offend anyone!" but I don't think that's Trump's style.

 

[dimsum]

With hundreds of thousands of deaths every year from the drug epidemic it seems to me there is already a war, this would be the reaction (and fits his theme of counterpunching). As for cartels embedded on US soil, fairly certain the US could swiftly deal with that with the right leadership.

If it was that easy to swiftly deal with the cartels in the US (which is not a new problem), Trump had 4 years between 2016-2020 to “swiftly” deal with it. I mean, that’s what the GOP supporters were saying about Harris, right?

Maybe the whole cartel situation isn’t as easy to deal with as some people think.

I suppose, one could just sit on their hands and say "whelp, wouldn't want to offend anyone!" but I don't think that's Trump's style.

There is a huge gulf between “offending someone” and launching targeted raids into another country, even with that govt’s compliance.

Let’s flip the situation around - since @daftandbarmy has pointed out human trafficking between the BC / WA border, and we all know about the guns going north from the US to Canada, should the RCMP or CAF start raiding known sites in the US? Should the US services raid BC?

 

[QV]

2016-2020 was one obstruction after another. I doubt that will happen this term. Let’s wait and see!

As to the rest- yawn - instead of constantly taking the “no” approach, which I acknowledge is a Canadian tradition, why not think about how that could be achieved?

 

[Remius]

2016-2020 was one obstruction after another. I doubt that will happen this term. Let’s wait and see!

Convenient but what obstruction exactly? If that is the case the he has only two years or so before he could get obstructed again.

As to the rest- yawn - instead of constantly taking the “no” approach, which I acknowledge is a Canadian tradition, why not think about how that could be achieved?

I don’t think anyone is saying to take a “no” approach but rather “another” approach that goes beyond the military fallacy of dealing with the cartels when a much more comprehensive approach beyond just the cartels is required.