daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 32,242
- Points
- 1,160
Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)
- Thread starter daftandbarmy
- Start date
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 11,391
- Points
- 1,260
Throw in some guns stuff and I think you know the play pretty well.
then he doesn't learn anything from history. The last time the NDP teamed up with the libs as they were on the way down they ended up as a rump in the HOC with no legitimate party status and it took years to regain credibility
The NDP is more than happy to push their agenda and they have no real war chest to wage an election. They are more than happy to ride this out as long as they can.
would the last member standing please close the door on the way out.
And then they languish for a while and then they build back up. But they’ve pushed some things in the past couple years that go to the core of their platform. They may recognize that third-party kingmaker is inherently cyclical, and that the door will not always be open to achieve policy influence. Thus, they may exploit the opportunity when it’s there. Right now it’s as ‘there’ as it gets.
too true. It will be interesting to witness the interactions if Trudeau recalls parliament to legislate the dock workers back which if things keep going he is going to have to. I wager that we will witness the NDP finally part company from labour
They have a few levers to pull before it goes that far. It appears Minister O’Reagan can order binding arbitration. Unless the longshoremen defy binding arbitration, legislation shouldn’t be necessary.
But they certainly aren’t making a compelling case for not aggressively pursuing modernization and automation, and reducing reliance on lower skilled labour.
- Reaction score
- 17,086
- Points
- 1,010
Pretty much any sympathy the Longshoreman union had dried up when the new median wage of $162,000 (that they rejected) was announced publically.
Even some union people I know are shaking their heads and wondering how soon the Port of Vancouver can be automated…
Even some union people I know are shaking their heads and wondering how soon the Port of Vancouver can be automated…
I suspect the BC Maritime Employers Association is playing fast and loose with numbers here. I think they’re taking numbers reflective of average annual pay when inclusive of overtime. That’s a great way to fudge numbers. I’d be curious to know what a longshoreman who doesn’t work any overtime would be paid in a year. I’m highly doubtful it’s $130k plus.
Haggis
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 3,140
- Points
- 1,140
Here's your answer. $93,852.00
Eaglelord17
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 2,071
- Points
- 1,040
So basically enough to rent a shoebox in Vancouver.
Decent money in and of itself, but if you’re working the port, that’s not gonna be easy to do while living farther afield where housing is less awful.
As of last night, yet another tentative deal has been agreed to by the union and employer. We’ll see if this one can get ratified.
New tentative deal reached in B.C. port strike
A joint statement was sent out late Sunday saying a deal was reached
vancouversun.com
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 8,740
- Points
- 1,040
The only compensation worth evaluating is the compensation they actually earn. The map is not the terrain.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 11,391
- Points
- 1,260
And the hits keep coming
it’s actually 90%.
It's a tricky situation in the bigger picture of things.
The more things get automated - the less jobs there are for people. And our country keeps getting more & more people...
Rejecting a salary like that sounds foolish on the surface - everybody I know would LOVE a salary of $162k!!
But as salaries rise, so does the cost of living just due to the elastic affect of more money being in an area.
At the end of the day, I feel like the biggest thing that needs to happen is BC needs to get their shit together, re affordable housing.
But you aren't wrong. It's hard to have sympathy for folks who reject an offer like that (even if that offer is a bit inflated)
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 8,740
- Points
- 1,040
So how'd we get from 1900 to 2020 without mass unemployment? Should we expect the phenomena responsible for preventing that to abruptly stop; if so, why and how?
[Add: more port automation should cause what more automation usually causes: fewer people, paid more, achieving the same or greater productivity.]
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 32,242
- Points
- 1,160
Ironically, because their union is so militant you can pretty much guarantee they'll automate as fast as possible... Canada's a world laggard in port efficiency anyways:
What is port automation — and why are striking workers concerned about it?
Canada lagging on industrial automation; union fears it could lead to significant job cuts
More than 7,400 unionized employees at more than 30 ports along British Columbia's coast are off the job in a labour dispute that concerns, among a number of issues, how automation will affect the future of work at vital maritime gateways for Canadian imports and exports.
The International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada (ILWU), which represents the striking workers, has warned for years automation will be a threat to current and future jobs at the province's ports.
There are now more than 50 terminals around the world with some degree of automation, according to a report from the International Transport Federation (ITF), incorporating equipment such as automated stacking cranes, gantries and guided transport vehicles controlled from remote operating centres.
British Columbia has two semi-automated container terminals: Global Container Terminals' (GCT) Deltaport, which is located at the Roberts Bank Superport, 37 kilometres south of downtown Vancouver in the city of Delta; and DP World's Fairview Container Terminal in Prince Rupert on the North Coast.
But a proposed third terminal, the Roberts Bank Terminal 2 expansion project, which recently received federal approval, has the ILWU warning of what could come.
Weeks before the contract talks broke down and the strike began, on July 1, ILWU Canada president Rob Ashton warned of the "domino effect" a new automated terminal could have on the Port of Vancouver — Canada's busiest port — possibly forcing conventional terminals to automate as well.
While port workers walk the picket lines to demand protections against what the union describes as the "devastating impacts" of automation, others warn slow movement on automation may pose its own risks to the industry and Canada's economy.
So if we automate, we run the very real risk of laying off thousands of people from their jobs...
(It isn't really a risk, it's a guarantee...that's the whole point of automation as Brad points out)
But if we don't automate, we run the inherent risks that come with being a laggard & not keeping up with the rest of the world...
I read the article, and it seems to do a decent job of weighing the pros & the cons. Some things probably could be done more efficiently by machines, or that the machines would pay themselves off & the investments in them would make business at the ports much more cost efficient.
But my concern (and maybe this is more of a concern for the long run) is that a lot of workers would lose their jobs in an area of the country that already doesn't seem to have a ton of jobs.
Side Story - I have a good buddy who is a long haul truck driver, and was recently down in Tacoma, WA to deliver a load & picked up another load at the port.
He had to wait for the better part of 3 days to be able to put the load onto his truck so he could get on his way, during that time we would text and he would send me pictures.
He said it was like the walking dead in terms of homeless people. Homeless people everywhere - despite big signs at various points saying they were hiring (a lot of the folks said they used to work there, and the sign that they are currently hiring were from years ago that never got taken down)
He said there was nowhere to park his truck because other trucks who had gotten there before him had taken up pretty much everywhere there was to park, also waiting for their cargo...he eventually parked on a residential street at like 3am because EVERYWHERE near the port was already occupied by other drivers in the same boat he was in.
(I don't know if it's always like that, or if there was a strike going on at the time, or what have you. I also have no idea if that story is remotely relevant to the issue of automation in the slightest...my fingers just keep moving so I thought I'd share the one story about a shipping terminal that I have
)
(It isn't really a risk, it's a guarantee...that's the whole point of automation as Brad points out)
But if we don't automate, we run the inherent risks that come with being a laggard & not keeping up with the rest of the world...
I read the article, and it seems to do a decent job of weighing the pros & the cons. Some things probably could be done more efficiently by machines, or that the machines would pay themselves off & the investments in them would make business at the ports much more cost efficient.
But my concern (and maybe this is more of a concern for the long run) is that a lot of workers would lose their jobs in an area of the country that already doesn't seem to have a ton of jobs.
Side Story - I have a good buddy who is a long haul truck driver, and was recently down in Tacoma, WA to deliver a load & picked up another load at the port.
He had to wait for the better part of 3 days to be able to put the load onto his truck so he could get on his way, during that time we would text and he would send me pictures.
He said it was like the walking dead in terms of homeless people. Homeless people everywhere - despite big signs at various points saying they were hiring (a lot of the folks said they used to work there, and the sign that they are currently hiring were from years ago that never got taken down)
He said there was nowhere to park his truck because other trucks who had gotten there before him had taken up pretty much everywhere there was to park, also waiting for their cargo...he eventually parked on a residential street at like 3am because EVERYWHERE near the port was already occupied by other drivers in the same boat he was in.
(I don't know if it's always like that, or if there was a strike going on at the time, or what have you. I also have no idea if that story is remotely relevant to the issue of automation in the slightest...my fingers just keep moving so I thought I'd share the one story about a shipping terminal that I have
)
