Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)

[ArmyRick]

Read the whole quote. Her aimed intention was to say that CPC policies are "cuts and austerity, not believing in ourselves as a country, not believing in our communities and in our neighbors". That is what she is saying is "cold, and cruel, and small", not the CPC candidate themselves, and not CPC voters.

Be realistic. What do you think most Canadians heard? "The alternative...Cruel, cold and small"

She chose her words poorly and deserves to wear it.

 

[Haggis]

I mean, the international “look over there!” COA is to start a war.

Galvanize the public
Reinvigorate the CAF
???
Profit

The last "war" Canada "started" was the Turbot War.

Remember, this is the same guy that didn't want to "whip out our CF-18's" against ISIS and wanted to drop parkas instead of bombs. His government cut a huge chunk of DND/CAFs budget and omplenented some of the bizarre woke policies in place now.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I am not convinced there is much difference between saying that the CPC vision and policies are “cold, cruel and small” and how some LPC members think of those who support those policies and vision.

They seem to think of them as cash cows, pretty much, and things would be so much better if everyone had a government job - right?

Stop it with the class-war rhetoric to sell a capital-gains tax hike​

The federal government is imposing an additional tax on capital gains in excess of $250,000, hiking the inclusion rate from 50 per cent to 66.7 per cent, and supposedly using the money to “invest in Canada and Canadians.”

According to Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland, “The responsible way to pay for those investments is to ask those at the top to contribute a little bit of money.” Ms. Freeland went on to describe a future in which the elite wall themselves off and “the wrath of the vast majority of their less privileged compatriots burns so hot.”

Last I heard, two-thirds is more than a “little bit” and invoking the rhetoric of class warfare is not only irresponsible but dangerous. The truth is this tax policy isn’t really about taking from the rich and giving to the poor. It’s about discouraging risk-taking and – intentionally or not – punishing those entrepreneurs who succeed in beating the odds, and who grow our economy in doing so.

This country, like all countries that aren’t welfare states, needs entrepreneurs. Their innovations add value to the economy and help keep Canada globally competitive. And they create jobs – millions of them, according to the government. Small and medium-sized companies contribute more than half of Canada’s gross domestic product. So why exactly would we want to tax their founders out of existence? And how on earth would it be “responsible” to discourage aspiring entrepreneurs from trying to create even more jobs?

News flash: Building companies is a risky business. Many entrepreneurs start with nothing bigger than a dream and the courage to pursue it – with no safety nets, paid vacations, pensions or benefits. I think of people such as Andrew Maida of Flourish Pancakes, who sacrificed for years with no money, even sleeping in his car, to ensure that his business idea of a healthier breakfast became a reality.

Full disclosure: I’m an investor in Andrew’s company and I’m thrilled that it provides jobs for many Canadians, his products are sold across the country and he can finally pay himself a decent wage while continuing to grow his business.

Like most people, entrepreneurs are incredibly hard-working folks, yet fully 80 per cent of startups fail. Many founders of businesses work for almost nothing and then are left with nothing to show for their years of effort except significant debts.

The successful ones, through job creation, help make it possible for literally millions of other Canadians to put gas in their cars, food on their tables and clothes on their children’s backs. Yet very few are fat cats.

We aren’t talking about gazillionaires such as Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg here (despite the sound bites about the government’s policy somehow affecting only folks like them). We’re talking about people, like Andrew, who have toiled for years against great odds and, yes, may one day see a nice return for taking on all those risks (and enduring great stress, having everything on the line). In many cases, the entrepreneur’s return will be less than it would be if they had worked a traditional job and put money away in an RRSP or a tax-free savings account, maybe investing their savings in the stock market or real estate.

Opinion: Stop it with the class-war rhetoric to sell a capital-gains tax hike

Last week, Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland warned Canada’s top 1 per cent of dire societal consequences over the capital-gains tax hike

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[FSTO]

Read the whole quote. Her aimed intention was to say that CPC policies are "cuts and austerity, not believing in ourselves as a country, not believing in our communities and in our neighbors". That is what she is saying is "cold, and cruel, and small", not the CPC candidate themselves, and not CPC voters.

LPC cuts under Chretien - "It was for the good of the country"
CPC cuts under Harper - "That was just mean!"

 

[dimsum]

I am not convinced there is much difference between saying that the CPC vision and policies are “cold, cruel and small” and how some LPC members think of those who support those policies and vision.

Sure, and it cuts both ways.

Be realistic. What do you think most Canadians heard? "The alternative...Cruel, cold and small"

She chose her words poorly and deserves to wear it.

As I said above, her full quote wasn’t in the top 10 of Google searches. Shirts of the misquote were.

Alternatively, if she was more vague and roundabout, the LPC would be slammed for being milquetoast - like the reaction to the Toronto-St. Paul loss.

Either way, she’ll have to defend her words, misquoted or not.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"I'm really calling on the people of St. Paul's to go out there and vote for [Church] because the alternative is really cold, and cruel, and small. The alternative is cuts and austerity, not believing in ourselves as a country, not believing in our communities and in our neighbors," Freeland said.

Regardless how it's quoted out of context, it's still the usual left-leaning "right side of history" framing bullsh!t.

Inadequately funding health care is cold, cruel, and small. Starting new fractionally accessible programs (child care subsidies, dental care, pharmacare) in order to parade in front the cameras and buy particular demographic slices of votes is cold, cruel, and small. The pressure on peoples' incomes, savings, and credit lines due to inflation and interest rates which are unnecessarily high because they are aggravated by overcharged public deficit spending is cold, cruel, and small. Policies that tend to suppress economic growth rates are cold, cruel, and small.

 

[dimsum]

Inadequately funding health care is cold, cruel, and small.

Isn’t Health Care a provincial thing? I don’t recall (aside from CAF members) getting Govt of Canada Health Cards

Starting new fractionally accessible programs (child care subsidies, dental care, pharmacare) in order to parade in front the cameras and buy particular demographic slices of votes is cold, cruel, and small.

So, let’s say that Health Care is now a federal thing, this point and the last point don’t jibe. You either inadequately fund it, or you’re starting new programs with money. Now, it’s possible to start new programs and then inadequately fund them, but again…provincial responsibility.

Although given my spouse’s experience with BC, MB, and ON healthcare systems, she would probably prefer that the Feds take over.

The pressure on peoples' incomes, savings, and credit lines due to inflation and interest rates which are unnecessarily high because they are aggravated by overcharged public deficit spending is cold, cruel, and small.

I look to my friends and colleagues in the US, UK, and elsewhere and honestly, we are middle-of-the-pack. Should the BoC not have cut interest rates to near zero in 2020 so that the subsequent interest rate increase isn’t so steep?

As a quick comparison, the US inflation rate is currently 2.5% and interest rates are 5.5%. Canadian inflation is 2.9% and interest rate is 4.75%.

Policies that tend to suppress economic growth rates are cold, cruel, and small.

That’s fair.

 

[Quirky]

Freeland indirectly called CPC supporters cold, cruel, small. You can word salad your way around mis-quotes all you want, this is just another example of the LPC dividing the country, something they keep accusing the other side of.

 

[dimsum]

Freeland indirectly called CPC supporters cold, cruel, small. You can word salad your way around mis-quotes all you want, this is just another example of the LPC dividing the country, something they keep accusing the other side of.

Ok. So if someone calls the other party’s policies (or personnel, or whatever) out and is therefore indirectly calling that party’s supporters out, then was Poilievre saying that LPC supporters were “whacko” or “extremist” when he said that about JT in the HoC a couple of months ago?

If yes, then does that mean that those words constitute “dividing the country”?

 

[Quirky]

Ok. So if someone calls the other party’s policies (or personnel, or whatever) out and is therefore indirectly calling that party’s supporters out, then was Poilievre saying that LPC supporters were “whacko” or “extremist” when he said that about JT in the HoC a couple of months ago?

If yes, then does that mean that those words constitute “dividing the country”?

What about, what about.

 

[Rifleman62]

Liberal leader change won’t flip ‘soft voters,’ pollsters say | Power & Politics​

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Isn’t Health Care a provincial thing? I don’t recall (aside from CAF members) getting Govt of Canada Health Cards


So, let’s say that Health Care is now a federal thing, this point and the last point don’t jibe. You either inadequately fund it, or you’re starting new programs with money. Now, it’s possible to start new programs and then inadequately fund them, but again…provincial responsibility.

Although given my spouse’s experience with BC, MB, and ON healthcare systems, she would probably prefer that the Feds take over.


I look to my friends and colleagues in the US, UK, and elsewhere and honestly, we are middle-of-the-pack. Should the BoC not have cut interest rates to near zero in 2020 so that the subsequent interest rate increase isn’t so steep?

As a quick comparison, the US inflation rate is currently 2.5% and interest rates are 5.5%. Canadian inflation is 2.9% and interest rate is 4.75%.


That’s fair.

The problem with the Liberal attitude towards healthcare is that they ignore the Provincial responsibility aspect when it is politically convenient to make ultra constitutional promises to create national programs to buy votes and then fail to properly fund those promises down the road.

It would be a lot cleaner for the federal government to stay the hell away from healthcare in Canada, except in the areas they are mandated (CAF, federal prisoners and first nations). Leave the taxation room on the table for the Provinces to pickup. Provinces that do a good job on healthcare will get the associated political and economic rewards for doing so.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Isn’t Health Care a provincial thing? I don’t recall (aside from CAF members) getting Govt of Canada Health Cards

Canada Health Transfer?

So, let’s say that Health Care is now a federal thing, this point and the last point don’t jibe. You either inadequately fund it, or you’re starting new programs with money. Now, it’s possible to start new programs and then inadequately fund them, but again…provincial responsibility.

We've known for a long time that expected health care costs were likely to exceed economic growth. That was what Paul Martin's health care "accord" was meant to mitigate for a short time. It's what the rate-of-GDP-growth-with-3%-floor funding formula (inadequate, but at least predictable) - which I gather is wholly or nearly so in effect - is meant to mitigate. Money spent elsewhere is unavailable for health care. Money spent servicing debt is unavailable for anything, although properly accounted it is part of the cost of whatever was purchased with the originally borrowed funds. That the funding responsibility is shared means the federal government has responsibility. That the federal government places strong limits and funding penalties on what provinces may or may not attempt to creatively mitigate the supply/demand imbalance suggests the federal government's responsibility is paramount. If the federal government's legislated rules prevent a province from following a course which might, say, improve supply, then the federal government arguably is responsible to pony up money in lieu.

I look to my friends and colleagues in the US, UK, and elsewhere and honestly, we are middle-of-the-pack. Should the BoC not have cut interest rates to near zero in 2020 so that the subsequent interest rate increase isn’t so steep?

The BoC uses interest rates to try to keep inflation within a targeted range and has to react to external factors which drive inflation too low or too high. It doesn't set interest rates for the sake of themselves or to make life easy for borrowers.

 

[FSTO]

Isn’t Health Care a provincial thing? I don’t recall (aside from CAF members) getting Govt of Canada Health Cards

Health care is managed by the Provinces but a large amount of their funding comes from the Federal Government. During the Chretien/Martin years, health transfers to the provinces were massively cut to balance the budget. Provinces in turn cut their funding (especially Doctor and Nurse training) to make up for the shortfall.

 

[Lumber]

Freeland indirectly called CPC supporters cold, cruel, small. You can word salad your way around mis-quotes all you want, this is just another example of the LPC dividing the country, something they keep accusing the other side of.

Jesus christ that's a stretch. She did not.

 

[IKnowNothing]

What about, what about.

That was in no way a whataboutism.

Have the courage to own the hypocrisy, or try and explain what makes the concept apply in one situation but not the other, or acknowledge that it's a bad thing regardless of which side does it.

 

[QV]

And what is it you think "went on behind the curtain"? I'd bet dollars to donuts that it's just politics as usual with nothing more other than the added narcissism of the leader.

Certainly not any altruistic unicorn farts. More likely corruption, questionable if not downright damaging conduct related to China's activities... you know, conduct unbecoming of a leader of this country.

 

[Good2Golf]

Ok. So if someone calls the other party’s policies (or personnel, or whatever) out and is therefore indirectly calling that party’s supporters out, then was Poilievre saying that LPC supporters were “whacko” or “extremist” when he said that about JT in the HoC a couple of months ago?

If yes, then does that mean that those words constitute “dividing the country”?

Have looked over the CPC policy (ref provided for those prone to forgetting they have one: https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/23175001/990863517f7a575.pdf ) and I have difficulty quantifying in its policy the basis of Freeland’s qualified (and dramatic in lieu of substantive supporting material) statement of cold, cruel and small.

If anything, the biggest place where I can picture ‘small’ is in government…as in “not 40% bigger with 0% discernible productivity increase.”

 

[The Bread Guy]

... In this day and age, when we can pretty much fact-check (or quote-check, as it were) anything relatively quickly, people should be thinking to themselves that if a sound bite seems to invoke an emotional or “gotcha” response, the first action should be to see if said sound bite is being used in its original context ...

Ideally, for sure. But ....
1) Who has the time to check the context of every gotcha from either side?
2) Just like with Donald Trump's most off-the-wall statements/semi-commitments, haters always gonna assume the worst and boosters always gonna assume the most benign version.

I am not convinced there is much difference between saying that the CPC vision and policies are “cold, cruel and small” and how some LPC members think of those who support those policies and vision.

I guess that's why Canada Proud was happy to edit & share that clip with the caption it did: shaping the message, context or not - "lookit how Team Red is talking about YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". The left is accused of being divisive & non-inclusive, which they can be with some of their messaging, but how different is this?

I don't assume everyone who supports a left or right of centre party necessarily supports every single thing said party wants to do, but there's people out there who don't think in those shades of grey on all sides. Both sides call the worst of the others on the other side the equivalent of "snowflakes." Makes for great memes, and gotcha clips, but not so much for meeting somewhere in the middle for solutions.

 

[mariomike]

Makes for great memes, and gotcha clips, but not so much for meeting somewhere in the middle for solutions.

Perhaps the thought of political teams working together to fix sewers etc. is too boring for some.

Isn’t Health Care a provincial thing?

And municipal property taxes.