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Tory minority in jeopardy as opposition talks coalition. Will there be another election?

>...we must also acknowledge that the system you just described also has a Political Party system conventionally grafted on.  This system includes Party discipline, Party Campaigning, and the notion of a Party Leader.

Ironically, many of the same people who argue that the coalition deserves to govern because that's how parliament is supposed to work - people vote in ridings, ridings elect MPs, MPs "elect" their own government and PM - can also be found to argue in support of proportional representation (PR) at other times, without any suggestion of constitutional tinkering.  All the PR schemes I've looked at tend to further emphasize and formalize the role of parties in the system.  The MPs would still select their government - perhaps even their PM (unlikely) - but the direct line of accountability between MP and riding voter would be diluted, and for some schemes, non-existent.
 
Just as the Prime Ministers from Pitt, through North, Gladstone & Disraeli, Lloyd George and MacKenzie King have progressively usurped the powers of the Monarch, with little formal acknowledgement of the fact, so have the parties usurped the legitimate powers of the Members of Parliament.

In the Canadian context I believe, I stand to be corrected, it might have been Diefenbaker, that it was MacKenzie King that blew up the old informal party system, just as he blew up the relationship with the Governor-General, and created the modern disciplined party.

If I'm not mistaken it was MacKenzie King who, when confronted by a caucus revolt, responded by claiming that his legitimacy came not from caucus, but from the party membership at large.  And that is the reason that the Libs are having so much trouble turfing Dion and electing Ignatieff.

If the system actually worked the way that Messrs Rodahn and Dietrich proclaim then the coalition would have no trouble at all in finding one of their 165 members to stand as leader of the coalition in the house.  Instead they find themselves hamstrung by Party Constitutions with three equally partisan Leaders that can be widely suspected of reversing our usual formulation of "Mission, Men, Machines, Myself".

Edited to include the salient player:  MacKenzie King
 
Rodahn said:
Sorry Zip, but you did make the statement regarding elected PM. Which to my mind perpetuates the idea that we elect a PM directly. I get frustrated by the lack of understanding by some people of how the system operates.

It may very well have been picking fly crap out of pepper, but this is one of the perceptions that irks me.

Fair enough.
 
Funny how we SAY we don't elect a Prime Minister yet we sure kick the leader of the party that comes in second right in the teeth.........
 
ArmyVern said:
Dollars to donuts.
Ignatief already has the speech written; that's the best thing (only thing??) the Liberal Party could do at this point in time.

I'd bet that way....

MCG said:
Potential good news regardless of your party of choice.  Too bad it still seems to keep the coalition alive.http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081206/rae_ignatieff_081207/20081207?hub=TopStories

Don't know about that - I've heard Iggy saying on the radio (and, apparently, he's been saying it to TV as well) saying, "a coalition if necessary, but not necessarily a coalition".  
 
milnews.ca said:
Don't know about that - I've heard Iggy saying on the radio (and, apparently, he's been saying it to TV as well) saying, "a coalition if necessary, but not necessarily a coalition".  

Was thinking the same thing watching a liberal on newsworld just now, saying that "they have a coalition ready in case they dont like what the PM has to say when parliament resumes"

Its funny what happens when you stop and think about the mess you got yourself into......

 
CDN Aviator said:
Was thinking the same thing watching a liberal on newsworld just now, saying that "they have a coalition ready in case they dont like what the PM has to say when parliament resumes"

Its funny what happens when you stop and think about the mess you got yourself into......

Yeah, funny how taking a few deep breaths before engaging mouth works....
 
Zell_Dietrich said:
And the funding cut would have cost them more money than any other party.  It wasn't just about the funding issue, it really is about the lack of action on the part of the Tories.  Given how the Tories play 'pass this or it is election time' over and over,  the opposition took this extraordinary measure to stand up to them.  You have three parties that want to invoke demand side economics right away and one advocating supply side economics.  (supply side economics aka trickle down theory aka pissing on the poor)
The narcissist you speak of were elected.  Elected with sufficient numbers to form a majority in the house of commons.  It is democratic and legal. 

ref the Bold,

Sorry I cant agree with that. The coalition may pay lip service to it all being about the lack of action but I firmly believe it was the threat to funding that was the main ingredient for this Soup.  I am on record saying that Harper did a bad judgement thing with bringing out that addition to the legislation. But that still doesn't excuse forming a coalition when the Major players announced they would do no such thing.  People keep pointing out that the majority are now being served.  Yet when 3 dissimilar parties who attract people who hold differant views and run separate campains do not or are not able to form a majority.  Is it right that they now try to with out notice prior to the election or at least giving the intent.  And for those who like to trot out the differant countries that do this through out the world.  Trouble is the have a differant electoral system and it would be comparing apples and oranges.
 
And "You're Fired"  ;D

Dion will bow out early to clear way for successor
Last Updated: Monday, December 8, 2008 | 1:37 PM ET CBC News

Embattled Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion announced Monday that he will step down earlier than planned to make way for a new chief to try to reunite and strengthen the party ahead of a potential election.

Dion originally planned to stay on as a caretaker leader until his successor was chosen in early May, but has faced growing pressure from his party to step down after his handling of the recent political crisis.

"I have decided to step aside as leader of the Liberal party effective as soon as my successor is duly chosen," Dion wrote in a press release. He did not specify a date.

Dion also said that he agrees with party members that a new leader must be in place before Parliament resumes.

Liberals are eager to get a new leader in place before Parliament restarts on Jan. 26, when the government could be toppled or a Liberal-NDP coalition government could rise to power.

The federal Liberals are divided on how to select Dion's successor.

There were reports over the weekend that leadership contender Michael Ignatieff was poised to take the top job during a vote at a caucus meeting on Wednesday.

However, some MPs, particularly supporters of leadership rival Bob Rae, have railed against that method of selection, instead calling for the vote to include all Liberal party members.

Ignatieff supporters argue the matter must be settled quickly and can be decided by the 77 elected Liberal MPs in a caucus vote, which would likely guarantee an Ignatieff victory.

Rae, meanwhile, suggested over the weekend that a caucus vote would be undemocratic and illegitimate because it would disenfranchise Liberals in the 231 ridings not represented in the House of Commons.

The third leadership contender, New Brunswick MP Dominic LeBlanc, is expected to drop out of the race and endorse Ignatieff. He is scheduled to hold a press conference Monday afternoon.

With files from the Canadian Press
 
And Liberal leader Stephan Dion resigns.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1048255

Dion announces resignation
David Akin and Juliet O’Neill, Canwest News Service
Published: Monday, December 08, 2008
OTTAWA - Stephane Dion has resigned as leader of the Liberal party as the race to succeed him becomes a two-man contest with the anticipated withdrawal of New Brunswick MP Dominic LeBlanc.

"I have decided to step aside as leader of the Liberal party effective as soon as my successor is duly chosen," Dion said in a statement Monday.

"I will offer my unconditional and enthusiastic support to my successor in the same way I have always supported the leaders of our great party. I will work under the next leader's direction with all my energy in order to give Canada a better government.


'I will offer my unconditional and enthusiastic support to my successor in the same way I have always supported the leaders of our great party. I will work under the next leader’s direction with all my energy in order to give Canada a better government,' Said Liberal Leader Stephane Dion Monday in a statement.
Jean Levac; Canwest News Service

"I admire the man," said Liberal MP Anthony Rota, the chair of the Liberal caucus. "He's got the interests of the party and Canada at heart."...
 
so now, not only is the Liberal party headless, but it would seem that the Coalition is as well....
 
ToRN said:
so now, not only is the Liberal party headless, but it would seem that the Coalition is as well....

Correction - It seems the liberal party has decided to amputate it's present nonfunctional head and graft on a new one and see if that ends it's popularity nosedive!
 
Text of statement, c/o Canadian Press:
After the election on October 14 I announced I would stay on as Leader of the Liberal Party until my party could select my successor. One of my goals was to ensure an effective opposition to Stephen Harper's government.

I believe that decision was the right one and I am proud of having forced Stephen Harper to back away from his attempt to force upon Canadians his most ideological and harmful plans in these tough economic times.

The alliance between the Liberal Party and the NDP to replace the Harper government, with the support of the Bloc Quebecois, is a solid basis to give Canada a government that reflects both the aspirations of the majority of Canadians and the support of the majority of Members of Parliament. Such a government would be more stable than a minority Conservative government incapable of cooperating with opposition parties.

As the Governor General has granted a prorogation, it is a logical time for us Liberals to assess how we can best prepare our party to carry this fight forward.

There is a sense in the party, and certainly in the caucus, that given these new circumstances the new leader needs to be in place before the House resumes. I agree. I recommend this course to my party and caucus. As always, I want to do what is best for my country and my party, especially when Canadians' jobs and pensions are at risk.

So I have decided to step aside as Leader of the Liberal Party effective as soon as my successor is duly chosen.

I will offer my unconditional and enthusiastic support to my successor in the same way I have always supported the leaders of our great party. I will work under the next leader's direction with all my energy in order to give Canada a better government.

I wish to close by making it absolutely clear that my earlier departure does not change the facts of the situation that the Prime Minister has created in the last two weeks.

The Prime Minister and his government refused to lay out a plan to stimulate the economy. The Prime Minister has lost the confidence of the House of Commons. The Prime Minister shut down Parliament to save his job while thousands of Canadians are losing theirs. The Prime Minister has poisoned the well of trust and respect that is necessary for a minority government to work in Parliament - especially in a time of crisis. Mr. Harper took an economic crisis and added a parliamentary crisis that he then tried to transform into a national unity crisis: this is no way for a Prime Minister of Canada to act.

It is my hope that the decision I have announced today will enhance the capacity of Parliament to function effectively for the sake of Canadians in this economic crisis.

Stephane Dion, PC, MP

Now also available at Liberal Party web page here.
 
"The Prime Minister and his government refused to lay out a plan to stimulate the economy. The Prime Minister has lost the confidence of the House of Commons. The Prime Minister shut down Parliament to save his job while thousands of Canadians are losing theirs. The Prime Minister has poisoned the well of trust and respect that is necessary for a minority government to work in Parliament - especially in a time of crisis. Mr. Harper took an economic crisis and added a parliamentary crisis that he then tried to transform into a national unity crisis: this is no way for a Prime Minister of Canada to act"

Oh Brother, I take issue with the PM refusing to lay out a plan. They had one it was not one that involved throwing money as fast as possible. It was seeing what way the economy blew here and across the world. It was waiting to see what Obama was going to do for his rescue packages.  So the opposition did what they were suppose to do.  Oppose the current Gov't.  But outside of saying we are going to give lots of money right now as it is needed they were very light on the specifics as well.  The coalition had less of a plan and more of a action. That action being " lets throw money at it"  The PM role in life cannot be equated to a"job" that one looses and goes on unemployment.  How removed from reality is Dion to even think about equating it to the average Canadian.  The argument could be made that he did the coalition to help him paying back his bills. As getting the "job" as he put it of being PM would definitely pay better and allow him to raise more funds. ...... but then again by going there I would be sounding like him.

I disagree the PM took this and turned it into a political crisis.  He started the ball rolling yes, you betcha, but turning it into what it was took 3 parties to decide on a course of action and the Torrie's immediate reaction although less then civil accurate or even honest was an action that a wide margin of Canadians across the country agree with.  So frankly Mr Dion it was 4 parties that did this and my view is most Canadians are getting sick of the school room antics by all parties, with only a soft Mea Culpa coming from one party leader in particular....
 
I think this whole mess is Harper's fault. This is yet another strategic partisan jab at the opposition, making it harder for them to gather funds to go against the Conservative Party of Canada, these cuts; putting it under the guise of cutting spending and whatnot (never mind the high spending and huge deficit they pulled off, what ? 1-2 budgets ago ? Thing is.. Harper, as Rex Murphy puts it, got really stupid or really arrogant. The liberals and the other coalition parties, realizing they couldn't let this go by, and seeing if they didn't act now they would never get the support they wanted, made a fuss about this now when the economy is a mess, and Harper has nobody to blame but himself for creating it. The arrogance of this man confounds me, seriously
 
Yeah we know how Nfld feels about him, in no small part to your mouthpiece premier. But that's neither here nor there.

If and when the CPC get a majority, I want it retabled. I should not have to pay anything, not even $2.00 to support any government party, should I wish not to. If they can't raise enough money on their own, they obviously don't have the support base to be a player.
 
This has nothing to do with me being a Newfoundlander, and way to stereotype. Yeah, and with party funding, dont take into account demographics and their varying ability to donate to a political party

 
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