Tory minority in jeopardy as opposition talks coalition. Will there be another election?

[Brad Sallows]

>Chretien, Broadbent and Parizeau.

Look, the kids asked (needed?) the parents to arrange the marriage, but it doesn't mean the in-laws are all going to get along.

 

[Old Sweat]

I have held off posting for a while since I first jumped into this. It just keeps getting worser and worser . . .

How could any two rationale human beings with PhDs, which if nothing else demonstrates diligence and energy, ever sign a pact with the devil? What we are faced with is transferring command from George S Patton to Gomer Pyle.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>expense be damned.

What expense?  $300M is 1% of $30B, and the latter is just the starting figure.  By the time the whole economic downturn blows over, the cost to go to the voters to confirm who we want on the Big Boy Benches will just be a rounding error.

 

[ModlrMike]

Either they are in or they are out.  Either they swear fealty and are held accountable or else they don't in which case they have no standing in Her Majesty's eyes and can't be seen to be supporters of Her Majesty's Government.

That's my point exactly. I think that the GG will be advised of the same facts. The agreement between the three parties means nothing because Duceppe did not sign it. That being the case, the Liberals and NDP can not form a government given that they would be in an even weaker position seat wise than the Conservatives. So from my limited understanding the GG has the following choices, all of which are within her reserve powers:

1. grant a request for an election; (if Mr Harper advises that course);
2. invite the Lib/NDP/Bloc coalition to govern;
3. deny the opposition their goal and recommend an election; or
4. send them back to the house with instructions to sort themselves out.

Of course Mr Harper can prorogue parliament, introduce a budget on Jan 27th, and invite the opposition parties to an election.

I'll bet 100 imaginary dollars on the last eventuality, because it will give the Conservatives the time to rebuild their finances while hammering the Lib/NDP during the break.

 

[Lil_T]

So, with the Bloc not really being in or out does that mean they'll be playing parliamentary ping pong?  With the coalition and Consevatives playing a game of tug-o-war over the Bloc this crap could in essence go on forever.  I mean, what's to say that it won't?  It seems to me that either way the Bloc is the wildcard that is going to be played over and over again.  Why are they even in Parliament again?

I am thoroughly disgusted with this whole mess.

 

[Occam]

The agreement between the three parties means nothing because Duceppe did not sign it.

I was under that impression as well, but it appears Duceppe did sign it.  See here.

 

[Rodahn]

I have a question for all the posters on the forum.

How many of you were this incensed when Mr. Harper tried this same stunt in (I believe) 2004?

 

[meni0n]

So Rodah, and which party did the conservatives tried to form a new government with without elections?

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Hmm, looks like cracks are appearing in the coalition before the ink is even dry. Apparently, Iggy is starting to have doubts about the whole thing. Actually, I was surprised by recent reports that he would head the coalition, because last week he was on record as saying any deal with the Bloc was a "poisoned chalice." This may be what Warren Kinsella was hinting at on his blog yesterday. For those who don't know, Kinsella is a long time Liberal strategist and has been working for Ignatieff.

I can imagine that NDP MPs are also getting an earful from their constituents, especially from those out west. Of the 37 NDP MPs, fifteen are from Ontario, one each from NB, NL and NS and one of Quebec.  The rest are from out west. The fact that Layton would take the chance at alienating his western supporters is baffling. Okay, may be not so baffling; in my opinion, for what its worth, Layton is one of the most arrogant and smarmy politicians in Canada today and that he would do anything to get into power. Even, selling his party down the drain.

 

[Rodahn]

So Rodah, and which party did the conservatives tried to form a new government with without elections?

Copy of the letter below; now we all know that an election was called, however this is no different than the current coalition requesting the opportunity to govern.

September 9, 2004

Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson,
C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General
Rideau Hall
1 Sussex Drive
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A1

Excellency,

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government's program.

We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice
has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority.

Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

Sincerely,

Hon. Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P.
Leader of the Opposition
Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada

Gilles Duceppe, M.P.
Leader of the Bloc Quebecois

Jack Layton, M.P.
Leader of the New Democratic Party

 

[Occam]

I have a question for all the posters on the forum.

How many of you were this incensed when Mr. Harper tried this same stunt in (I believe) 2004?

You mean sign an accord with the NDP and the BQ in an attempt to form a coalition government?  I don't recall that happening.

Harper did send a letter to the GG in 2004 suggesting that she "consult the opposition leaders and consider all of [her] options before exercising [her] constitutional authority".

There's a difference - not a big one - but there's a difference.  Kinda like the difference between threatening to drop a nuke, and actually doing it.

Back then, Harper suggested it.  Now, Dion, Layton and Duceppe have actually signed an accord.

 

[ModlrMike]

I was under that impression as well, but it appears Duceppe did sign it.  See here.

That's the document they intend to serve the GG with. This is the instrument creating the coalition government LINK As you can see... no Duceppe signature. A government constituted solely by the Liberals and NDP.

 

[meni0n]

I don't see anything in that letter saying, we are the coalition, declare us new government.

 

[Rodahn]

You mean sign an accord with the NDP and the BQ in an attempt to form a coalition government?  I don't recall that happening.

Harper did send a letter to the GG in 2004 suggesting that she "consult the opposition leaders and consider all of [her] options before exercising [her] constitutional authority".

There's a difference - not a big one - but there's a difference.  Kinda like the difference between threatening to drop a nuke, and actually doing it.

Back then, Harper suggested it.  Now, Dion, Layton and Duceppe have actually signed an accord.

So having the accord just adds strength to their position. Being as all three of the opposition leaders signature blocks were on the letter sent to then GG I submit that an accord had been reached, just not formalized.

 

[ModlrMike]

Here's an interesting thought... What if Mr Ignatieff were to cross the floor? He could easily rise to the leadership of the Conservatives given the chance. His defection could also very easily trigger a tsunami and create a Conservative majority.

 

[Occam]

So having the accord just adds strength to their position. Being as all three of the opposition leaders signature blocks were on the letter sent to then GG I submit that an accord had been reached, just not formalized.

You could presume that, but we'll probably never know how far the three parties had progressed negotiations.

 

[Occam]

That's the document they intend to serve the GG with. This is the instrument creating the coalition government LINK As you can see... no Duceppe signature. A government constituted solely by the Liberals and NDP.

I'm confused.  It appears to me that the document with Duceppe's signature refers to other accords - perhaps to the accord that you've linked to between the Libs and the NDP.  If that's the case, wouldn't Duceppe's signature on the main document amount to an agreement between the three parties?

 

[meni0n]

The fact of the matter is, Libs + NDP will have 113 seats. If the Bloc all of a sudden decided to stop supporting them, it will become a non working government.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Here is an interesting (well to me, anyway) thought...

I've noticed that in the agreement that the Bloc signed, they agreed not to defeat the Government until 2011.  They did not say they would not get caught, enmasse, in one of those freak June snowstorms on Autoroute 20 and "miss" an important vote, leaving their newfound friends vastly outnumbered and outgunned in the House of Commons.  Dion and Layton could not have possibly missed something as basic as that in the negotiations, right?

Just saying...

 

[Love793]

Here's a scenario, what if the current PM, was to ask the GG to disolve Parliment on the gorunds of this circus just becoming one never ending cycle of non confidence votes? The ball is now in the PMs court. I say call their bluff.