Tory minority in jeopardy as opposition talks coalition. Will there be another election?

[tomahawk6]

What if some of these coalition MP's decide they dont like this arrangement and cross the aisle ? Is this scenario possible ?

 

[Seyek]

I suppose it is, could be when the vote comes up if (12 I think?) members of the opposition cross the floor, then Harper could have a majority. I don't like this coalition idea in the slightest, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the concept of Prime Minister Dion, and the fact that this coalition is built upon the support of the Bloc who will be receiving god only knows what at this point for their support. They won't officially be the government, but they'll be the foundation thats keeping the government standing.

Speaking of which, how many people here are going to don the uniform, look in the mirror, and still be able to feel the same sense of pride knowing that their government's strings are now being pulled by the bloc?

 

[OldSolduer]

How many billions of our dollars were promised to go Quebec's way? How many contracts will be awarded to Quebec companies?

That is the whole debate isn't it? How much is it going to cost the rest of Canada to ensure Mr. Duceppe's support for this coalition?
Mr. Duceppe and the BLOC are out to separate Quebec from Canada. As a matter of principle, the Liberals and NDP should not be cooperating with this party.
I know Harper did, and he should not have either.

The tail is wagging the Canadian dog.

 

[OldSolduer]

Speaking of which, how many people here are going to don the uniform, look in the mirror, and still be able to feel the same sense of pride knowing that their government's strings are now being pulled by the bloc?

Good point. You can bet if the coalition does manage to toss the government, how long will it be before we are told to pack up our kit and get out of Afghanistan?

 

[Reccesoldier]

It's only loud & clear if you decide not to look past the seat count.  The Conservatives did earn the majority of the popular vote, but only by 2.4% (see http://enr.elections.ca/Provinces_e.aspx ).  I would not call that a "loud and clear" .  It is ambiguous leanings in favour of.

2.4% of the vote nationally would most likely have handed the Conservatives a majority 37.65% + 2.4% = 40.05%  The percentage may sound small but the liberals had a strong majority with 38.46% nationally in 1997. 2.4% in a multiparty democracy using FPTP is significant hence the seat count 71 seats for Conservatives 21 for the rest.

You are like a stone wall as I've already taken apart the notion of "all our votes".  In the case of our current government, the plurality is a minority.  A coalition government would not overturn all Canadian votes.  It would simply shift us from one group with a plurality to another group (one which actually reflects an ambiguous majority of the voters).

Yes, I'm a stone wall.  No one voted for a coalition, it wasn't on the ballot.  The idea that this plan was hatched before the speech from the throne is repugnant to me and should be repugnant to anyone who values their vote and what it stands for.

Yes it's all very politically possible and well within the rules.  That doesn't make me like it and won't make me approve of it.

Since you want to take me to task I'll conclude with this.  I don't like it.  I don't consider this democratic.  I hate the thought that the decision on this falls to an unelected figurehead. I'd rather spend 300 million on another election than spend a single red cent on a stimulus package that no one has demonstrated a need for. I hate the thought that Quebec separatists will have their thumb on Canada's jugular for 30 months if this abortion goes through. I will not pragmatically look on the bright side of this bastardization of process by claiming that it will grease the wheels with Barack Obama, or otherwise look good to the rest of the planet for that matter.

Just in case anyone had the mistaken impression that anything I said was anything other than my opinion.

 

[geo]

Let's face it.... the NDP, the Liberals and the Bloc have major divergent views on government.
If the three parties can make it work ... fine - they will be a slightly larger minority government than what we have right now BUT, will it be stable ???

time will tell - if it is unstaqble, it will topple - sooner than later & then we,ll have another chance at selecting a government that truly represents us.... or we'll deserve whatever it is that we get - once again.

 

[OldSolduer]

T

Let's face it.... the NDP, the Liberals and the Bloc have major divergent views on government.
If the three parties can make it work ... fine - they will be a slightly larger minority government than what we have right now BUT, will it be stable ???

time will tell - if it is unstaqble, it will topple - sooner than later & then we,ll have another chance at selecting a government that truly represents us.... or we'll deserve whatever it is that we get - once again.

This "coalition" will survive as long as Quebec gets what Mr. Duceppe asks...no,  tells Parliament what to give to Quebec. As soon as their is a balk from the Liberals/NDP, that coalition will fall.
There is no coalition in power right now, as far as I know. It may not even happen.

 

[geo]

Ummm... that's my point +/-

There are limits to what Mr Duceppe can "demand" & he knows it.
So long as there are no chages (as proposed by Mr harper), Mr Duceppe has agreed to come along for the ride - for the next 18 months anyway.  If they deviate, the house of cards will fall and we will be given a chance to vote once again.

 

[ltmaverick25]

I find this entire situation very unerving.  We are in a situation, where acurately or not, people are beleiving our economy to be in a state of crisis (I happen to think its not that bad).  On top of that, a deficit is approaching and now we are faced with the prospect of a left wing coalition.  I think that if this does come to pass and the deficit gets worse the most appealing budgetary target for cuts will be the military.  We have seen this before.  This is Canada, we are the first to get the big chop.  We are finally getting to a point of positive momentum after the damage that was done to our military in the 90s.  What will our military look like when this new coalition is done with it?  I think alot of the bigger spending announcements that we have seen in recent years will be reversed and worse.  I hope I am wrong.

 

[Flip]

The damage done in the short term is what bothers me.

Now that we have a confluence of danger and opportunity ( I hate the word crisis )

Will Alberta be forced out of the energy business and into non-existent  "green jobs"?

Will our position as a relatively healthy economy be forfeited for "values" sake?

Will Canadas' potential role change in Afghanistan benefit the Taliban?

Markets hate uncertainty. Now we've got bags of uncertainty....... If only we could sell 'em. 

 

[geo]

Umm... the economies of all the other G8... possibly the economies of the other G20 are all headed south & you think we have somehow miraculously managed to blunder through it with nothing more than some of singed feathers ???

 

[Flip]

Umm... the economies of all the other G8... possibly the economies of the other G20 are all headed south & you think we have somehow miraculously managed to blunder through it with nothing more than some of singed feathers

There's no point in making it worse...

If Canada indeed, has the healthiest economy, Canada becomes an investment haven.
If the new coalition taxes and spends us into a hole........our goose gets a little cooked.

 

[Kirkhill]

Let's face it.... the NDP, the Liberals and the Bloc have major divergent views on government.

....

But that is my point.  They Do NOT have major differences on governance.   The NDP and the Bloc only disagree on who is to be in charge and where.  They would both run their separate countries the same way.

As to the Liberals.  In the course of building their now very ragged big tent they actively recruited many "Socialists in a hurry".  Those socialists have now absconded with the rags and are flailing them about like a banner.  Leaving the rest of what used to be the Liberals sitting on the bleachers wondering what happened.

The Bloc, NDP and Socialist Liberals, the Internationalists, the Interventionists are all very much of a common mind.


PS and yes, I agree with Flip, we have "blundered through".  Don't make a bad situation worse.

 

[ballz]

IMO, a referendum wouldn't be a bad idea. We just had an election, so in theory there's not much point in having another one (although I think if we did, the Conservatives would have a majority because of all this ruckus), but a referendum of "Who would you rather govern? The coalition or the Conservatives" would work fine. No campaigning crap, just set up the damn polls and let the people decide (again). I think it would be overwhelming support for the Conservatives.

Anywho, I'm off to write my (Liberal) MP for the 3rd time. Is there anyway you can be sure he receives these? I gave it to his assistant and asked what it was regarding, I said "the coalition gov't" and she chuckled... I got the impression that it wasn't going to make it past her...

 

[Celticgirl]

Yes, I'm a stone wall.  No one voted for a coalition, it wasn't on the ballot.  The idea that this plan was hatched before the speech from the throne is repugnant to me and should be repugnant to anyone who values their vote and what it stands for.

Yes it's all very politically possible and well within the rules.  That doesn't make me like it and won't make me approve of it.

Agreed, 100%. No one voted for this manage-a-trois. The Three Amigos are all cheshire kitty grins now, but what does this really mean for our country?

What really scares me - even more than having an unpopular leader like Dion at the helm - is the Bloc's involvement in this mess and what kind of backroom deal was made to get his party on board. The Canadian people were left in the dark about that, weren't we? I heard Duceppe last night saying he is protecting the interests of "the nation of Quebec". Does that not scare the bejeesus out of anyone else? Dion and Layton are so power-hungry that they haven't truly thought through the consequences of their actions for Canadians and our country, not just for themselves and their parties.

IMHO: The only good thing that can come of this is if the GG sends us back to the polling stations and the Conservatives get a majority.

 

[Flip]

Anywho, I'm off to write my (Liberal) MP for the 3rd time. Is there anyway you can be sure he receives these?

Tie it around a brick with some string and........never mind. >

Last night I found myself getting surveyed by phone.
The survey was poorly constructed and pretty obviously was commisioned by the liberals.
Oddly, Paul Martin was offered as an option!  

 

[ballz]

IMHO: The only good thing that can come of this is if the GG sends us back to the polling stations and the Conservatives get a majority.

Unfortunately, the one time the GG actually has a job to do, she's going to sit there and take it. Why are we paying her anyway? I was never a supporter of having a GG, and this is just evidence that the whole "if" scenario ever did occur, she wouldn't do anything anyway.

 

[ballz]

Tie it around a brick with some string and........never mind. >

I'm way ahead of you... I already had that done but when I got down to his office at 1am, I realised it was on the 4th floor of the building haha

 

[Harley Sailor]

Although, every Canadian does get full control over who will get thier $1.75.  That aspect at least seems relatively democratic.  

Another reason not to vote.. If no one votes then no one gets your $1.75

 

[vonGarvin]

Just perusing this story on this forum (and elsewhere), and was I correct in seeing that one aspect of the deal (to appease the Bloc) was to make it "French Only" for federal institutions within Quebec?  Or was that the rambling of some crotchety old commentator?