Toronto: Love it or hate it?

[FortYorkRifleman]

Oh I understand what they mean when they say culture.  To me though, the "cultures" found in big cities are really just money making ventures that are there for entertainment.  It's no different than going to a place like Jamaica for example, staying on a secure white person resort, than saying you've experienced Jamaican culture, you haven't really, you've just been fooled by a cleverly designed money-making scheme. 

I think most people move to the city and end up getting stuck because they get sucked into the vortex.  They go there looking for work, end up working some random job that can barely pay their bills (due to the aforementioned cost of living) so they end up having to settle.

I know plenty of people who are in similar circumstances you described, RoyalDrew. I also suspect many would die before moving back home due to embarrassment.

 

[mariomike]

I lament the fact that Toronto doesn't have a base like Petawawa or Edmonton but that's for another discussion...

Others have pointed out the high property values in TO. How much would a base the size of either of those cost in Toronto? Where would they find the land?

As far as I am concerned, I can live anywhere. I've been retired for six years, so the job is not an issue. My wife likes to travel, but this is where she prefers to call home. So, that's fine with me.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

True I hadn't thought of that

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Others have pointed out the high property values in TO. How much would a base the size of either of those cost in Toronto? Where would they find the land?

As far as I am concerned, I can live anywhere. I've been retired for six years, so the job is not an issue. My wife likes to travel, but this is where she prefers to call home. So, that's fine with me.

Don't get me wrong, some people like the "Big City" life but having lived just outside Montreal for a year and spending lots of time in and around Toronto and Ottawa, I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be.  Personally, Ottawa is the limit for me as you can still live outside the city with a big plot of land and be in relative close proximity.  Toronto is just too big and quality of life just isn't there.  If you want to make serious money there, you need to work some sort of Bay Street job where the stress levels and grind pretty much eliminate any positives you would get from living there.

 

[Brasidas]

I used to wake up in the afternoon, go down to a shop in Spadina, get a couple awesome banh mi for $3, kick back with a good book and free tea, then wander to Second City for some free good improv shows.

I had fun in Toronto, whether I was a slacker or working a couple jobs. Depending on what I was doing for work, I suspect that with a wife and kids we'd end up somewhere on the periphery like Mississauga and that working in or around Toronto would just translate into an annoying commute.

 

[mariomike]

If you want to make serious money there, you need to work some sort of Bay Street job where the stress levels and grind pretty much eliminate any positives you would get from living there.

I mentioned that many applicants for our Emergency Services are from out of town ( since the Residency Requirement was lifted ). I saw that with my own eyes.

I also came across this: "I have been fortunate that I have been able to orientate several of our recruit classes and it was refreshing to see such a young class this time. The class was mainly Fire College Graduates and it also had members with past fire service experience. I had the chance to speak to some and I found it interesting that those fire fighters with many years experience with a full-time fire department elsewhere were willing to leave to pursue there “dreams” as they put it and work for Toronto Fire. It made me feel a little bit special that I have been a part of an organization that others envy and want to be a part of as well."
http://www.torontofirefighters.org/OSS/images/firewatch/spring2009.pdf
page 8

Some residential neighborhoods are not as hectic as outsiders may think. Ours was an independent village "the final frontier before Etobicoke" until it was annexed in 1967 by the City of Toronto. We can easily walk to the Bloor West Village ( if you like Eastern European food and culture, it's the place to go ), the subway ( two stops to the new Union Station - Pearson Airport Express ), or the park.
We love our car for pleasure drives and visiting, but you don't really need to own one. There are ZIP-car type services all over town now, taxis, and we recently began using Uber.
This is what I walk through all the way from home to Lake Ontario:
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/NatureAllWildlifeExceptAnimalsAndCherryBlossoms
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/AnimalsOutsideTheZooAndTheDogPark
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/CherryBlossoms

As a member of the Regular Force, I suppose it is unlikely you will be posted here anyway. A Base in Toronto would be too costly.
Yet, how many times have we read of GTA applicants who are hesitant to join the Regular Force, because they are concerned they may be posted outside the area?
Like I said, that's about one-third of the national population.

 

[opcougar]

OP....I'll take T-Dot any day over the "boonies" or other smaller towns (pop less than 500k) calling themselves 'cities', where people are afraid of people that don't look like them, and tend to have xenophobic tendencies which they exhibit subliminally or blatantly. You are not going to see a bunch of F-whatever or Dodge rams running around in neighbourhoods in TO, loud duck nasty jacket wearing types hanging at Timmies, or neighbours with swamp tires parking on your lawn, leaving you having to park on the street.

I am a city boy true and true, and the bigger the better for me. I have lived in cities of 5 million up to 9 million, and the boonies life is one that I can't comprehend. To hear some people refer to Toronto as "big" sometimes, is laughable if you've ever had a chance to go to Europe or elsewhere on the planet.

I am sure boonies folk feel the same way I do in an opposite fashion.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

I mentioned that many applicants for our Emergency Services are from out of town ( since the Residency Requirement was lifted ). I saw that with my own eyes.

I also came across this: "I have been fortunate that I have been able to orientate several of our recruit classes and it was refreshing to see such a young class this time. The class was mainly Fire College Graduates and it also had members with past fire service experience. I had the chance to speak to some and I found it interesting that those fire fighters with many years experience with a full-time fire department elsewhere were willing to leave to pursue there “dreams” as they put it and work for Toronto Fire. It made me feel a little bit special that I have been a part of an organization that others envy and want to be a part of as well."
http://www.torontofirefighters.org/OSS/images/firewatch/spring2009.pdf
page 8

Some residential neighborhoods are not as hectic as outsiders may think. Ours was an independent village "the final frontier before Etobicoke" until it was annexed in 1967 by the City of Toronto. We can easily walk to the Bloor West Village ( if you like Eastern European food and culture, it's the place to go ), the subway ( two stops to the new Union Station - Pearson Airport Express ), or the park.
We love our car for pleasure drives and visiting, but you don't really need to own one. There are ZIP-car type services all over town now, taxis, and we recently began using Uber.
This is what I walk through all the way from home to Lake Ontario:
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/NatureAllWildlifeExceptAnimalsAndCherryBlossoms
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/AnimalsOutsideTheZooAndTheDogPark
https://picasaweb.google.com/109580611075820545406/CherryBlossoms

As a member of the Regular Force, I suppose it is unlikely you will be posted here anyway. A Base in Toronto would be too costly.
Yet, how many times have we read of GTA applicants who are hesitant to join the Regular Force, because they are concerned they may be posted outside the area?
Like I said, that's about one-third of the national population.

I do think the CAF is missing out on a "brain gain" by not having a large base near Toronto as I think more and more city dwellers would at least have more of an interest than they do now; when ville de Quebec was here in the summer of 2012 I overheard several people saying they never knew Canada had a Navy.

 

[mariomike]

; when ville de Quebec was here in the summer of 2012 I overheard several people saying they never knew Canada had a Navy.

Maybe they thought this was their Navy?  :dunno:

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

Maybe they thought this was their Navy?  :dunno:

One of the things I experienced as a reservist was coming home from or less frequently going to Fort York in uniform was usually bewilderment that I was in Toronto and not in some base in the middle of nowhere or what do we actually do. My own experience now re enrolling as a Reg Force member has taught me we aren't lacking for recruits but at the same time there's such a disconnect between military and civilian that its a shame that a larger pool of people aren't interested or don't care about the military. The CAF should not only represent the faces of Canada but the geography as well

I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.

 

[mariomike]

One of the things I experienced as a reservist was coming home from or less frequently going to Fort York in uniform was usually bewilderment that I was in Toronto and not in some base in the middle of nowhere or what do we actually do. My own experience now re enrolling as a Reg Force member has taught me we aren't lacking for recruits but at the same time there's such a disconnect between military and civilian that its a shame that a larger pool of people aren't interested or don't care about the military. The CAF should not only represent the faces of Canada but the geography as well

I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.

Lots of armouries in the GTA for those who prefer to stay in the area.

I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.

Lived my life in TO, but I only really got to know it from 1972-2009. Saw a lot of changes in those years.

To hear some people refer to Toronto as "big" sometimes, is laughable if you've ever had a chance to go to Europe or elsewhere on the planet.

It's pretty big for this corner of the world. In North America, only NYC, LA and Mexico City are bigger.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

OP....I'll take T-Dot any day over the "boonies" or other smaller towns (pop less than 500k) calling themselves 'cities', where people are afraid of people that don't look like them, and tend to have xenophobic tendencies which they exhibit subliminally or blatantly. You are not going to see a bunch of F-whatever or Dodge rams running around in neighbourhoods in TO, loud duck nasty jacket wearing types hanging at Timmies, or neighbours with swamp tires parking on your lawn, leaving you having to park on the street.

I am a city boy true and true, and the bigger the better for me. I have lived in cities of 5 million up to 9 million, and the boonies life is one that I can't comprehend. To hear some people refer to Toronto as "big" sometimes, is laughable if you've ever had a chance to go to Europe or elsewhere on the planet.

I am sure boonies folk feel the same way I do in an opposite fashion.

The funny thing is, those "xenophobic" country folk that you bemoan usually make better soldiers of the combat variety.  Also, you seem to imply that others aren't as well travelled as you are.  I can assure you that the majority of the CAF has travelled far more than the average Canadian.

I do think the CAF is missing out on a "brain gain" by not having a large base near Toronto as I think more and more city dwellers would at least have more of an interest than they do now; when ville de Quebec was here in the summer of 2012 I overheard several people saying they never knew Canada had a Navy.

I will agree that having an "urban bastion" would probably help attract more "skilled labour" to the military but the way things are going, a lot of that stuff is getting increasingly contracted out to others.  Fact is, soldiers need to be stationed close to suitable terrain to train in.  The city is unfortunately nowhere near that aforementioned terrain.





 

 

[dimsum]

I will agree that having an "urban bastion" would probably help attract more "skilled labour" to the military but the way things are going, a lot of that stuff is getting increasingly contracted out to others.  Fact is, soldiers need to be stationed close to suitable terrain to train in.  The city is unfortunately nowhere near that aforementioned terrain.

<tangent>

I understand the need to be within a decent distance to ranges, etc. but the Australian Army has its main bases in downtown Brisbane, Darwin and Townsville with a brigade each, and other major units in Sydney and Perth.  All of those have over 100K people and are population centres in their areas of Australia.  When it needs to do big exercises in Shoalwater Bay or other ranges, they convoy or otherwise move their troops as needed. 

However, even with its bases in population centres, I've noticed that the Australian Army has trouble keeping its soldiers in uniform.  So, I'm not sure whether just proximity to cities is a cure-all for retention.

</tangent>

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

I think if you want to serve, you'll do it no matter what. I know that's the case with myself and others I've met through CFRC Toronto.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

<tangent>

I understand the need to be within a decent distance to ranges, etc. but the Australian Army has its main bases in downtown Brisbane, Darwin and Townsville with a brigade each, and other major units in Sydney and Perth.  All of those have over 100K people and are population centres in their areas of Australia.  When it needs to do big exercises in Shoalwater Bay or other ranges, they convoy or otherwise move their troops as needed. 

However, even with its bases in population centres, I've noticed that the Australian Army has trouble keeping its soldiers in uniform.  So, I'm not sure whether just proximity to cities is a cure-all for retention.

</tangent>

It's not, CFB Edmonton being a prime example.  This is especially true when the economy is goo because if it is good most soldiers will eventually look elsewhere for work.

 

[opcougar]

Country bumpkins are reading this now, and saying yeah right whatever.

One of the things I experienced as a reservist was coming home from or less frequently going to Fort York in uniform was usually bewilderment that I was in Toronto and not in some base in the middle of nowhere or what do we actually do. My own experience now re enrolling as a Reg Force member has taught me we aren't lacking for recruits but at the same time there's such a disconnect between military and civilian that its a shame that a larger pool of people aren't interested or don't care about the military. The CAF should not only represent the faces of Canada but the geography as well

I will say that Toronto should be looked upon as how a big city can be done right; very little crime, different races more or less gelling, and freedom to step out of your own ethnic shell and interact with the wider population.

The funny thing is, those "xenophobic" country folk that you bemoan usually make better soldiers of the combat variety.  Also, you seem to imply that others aren't as well travelled as you are.  I can assure you that the majority of the CAF has travelled far more than the average Canadian.

of the combat variety may be, but these days drones can be controlled from the comfort of a room, but that requires more technical skills.

Anyway, there is traveling to educate yourself with culture, and there is traveling to lounge by the beach or be confined to a certain area during war. Not everyone gets an OUTCAN posting in their service time.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

Country bumpkins are reading this now, and saying yeah right whatever.

Something that isn't spoken about is the wanting to leave cities like Toronto because of the changing demographic. Some people just don't want to live/work/play with people that don't look like them. Its a shame but who cares, really

of the combat variety may be, but these days drones can be controlled from the comfort of a room, but that requires more technical skills.

Anyway, there is traveling to educate yourself with culture, and there is traveling to lounge by the beach or be confined to a certain area during war. Not everyone gets an OUTCAN posting in their service time.

 

[mariomike]

I personally hate Toronto, come to think of it, I hate most big cities. 

Country bumpkins are reading this now, and saying yeah right whatever.

Figured from the title that this would be soon heading in the same direction >

Urban vs Rural recruits. Do similar patterns exist in Canada?
http://army.ca/forums/threads/36214.0;nowap

Four more pages of  :duel:

To add, the Union - Pearson Express opens this week, and I am very much looking forward to using it. I can get on at Bloor and be at Pearson in 17 minutes, or Union in 8 minutes. 

 

[George Wallace]

It's not, CFB Edmonton being a prime example.  This is especially true when the economy is good because if it is good most soldiers will eventually look elsewhere for work.

Sometimes, larger urban centers offer TOO MANY distractions and temptations for young soldiers.  So many are tempted by "Greener pastures on the other side of the fence"; which often don't turn out to be as green as they first appeared. 

 

[mariomike]

Sometimes, larger urban centers offer TOO MANY distractions and temptations for young soldiers.

Reminds me of the old World War One song, "How Ya Gonna Keep 'em Down on the Farm (After They've Seen Paree)?"

"The lyrics highlight concern that soldiers from rural environments would not want to return to farm life after experiencing the European city life and culture of Paris during World War I."

So many are tempted by "Greener pastures on the other side of the fence"; which often don't turn out to be as green as they first appeared.

"Goin' Down the Road" being a classic Canadian example of that:
"The film builds on such works as The Grapes of Wrath but it puts the story into the present, and the story itself is not dated – the flight from rural to urban areas continues throughout the world today."