Thinking about the Infantry Attack

[Infanteer]

Just going through Watling's newest report. Russians are blowing the lead portions of trenches while Ukrainians are fighting through as they withdraw from the posn instead of striking it with pre-registered arty. Reinforces out practice of not consolidating on the posn but also bring my observation on patience into question. One cannot be so patient as to provide an easy target for an innovative enemy using reserved demolitions on their own posns....

The thing that caught me on that one was that they weren't doing this to be sneaky, but rather to avoid firing their artillery which would then become exposed to CB fire. More a tactic of necessity than one of ingenuity.

 

[FJAG]

The thing that caught me on that one was that they weren't doing this to be sneaky, but rather to avoid firing their artillery which would then become exposed to CB fire. More a tactic of necessity than one of ingenuity.

That creates a conundrum. If you preserve your artillery to not be hit by counterfire, then what good is it in the defence if its not breaking up assaults with defensive fire? What is it being preserved for - a counterattack? These are not big frontages these penetrations - well organized and choreographed artillery should be able to chime in from the shoulders an still have a reserve to counterfire with. It's not that the Russians don't have the guns albeit ammo might be an issue. I tend to think the problem is the "choreographed" bit. Cross boundary artillery support does not seem to be their forte.

Back to the attack issue. That's a really good video and shows the post war evolution of the German infantry very well.

There was a significant difference that I noticed between Canadians - as experienced on the Combat Team Commander's course in Gagetown and that of Panzergrenadiers on battle runs in Shilo. The equipment and manoeuvres - Centurions and M113s in Gagetown - were more ponderous and plodding. In Shilo, with Leo 1s and Marders, the typical attack was pound the objective with artillery while two tank companies fired and manoeuvred their way in up to about 1,000 metres at which point the Panzergrenadier company charged through the tanks (some of whom peeled off to the flanks and kept shooting into the sides and depth of the objectives, while the Marders generally stormed into the forward edge of the objective, disgorged their dismounts, who would fight their way in under cover of the Marders' guns. It was a more violent and mobile attack. I presume attacks in Wainwright now are more in line with what the Germans did in Shilo 5 decades ago.

Obviously there is a difference between the equipment and the terrain between the two but in general there was a feel of a more aggressive attitude. To an extent the drills were also straightforward and simple on the part of the Germans because most of the troops were 9 month conscripts at the time. In the same way too, it's not a surprise that the HS-30 came with a 20mm turreted gun while the M113 and FV432 mounted a .50 on a pintle. The HS-30 was not a mere personnel carrier but meant to provide intimate support to the dismounts. The over-the-top dismount on the HS-30 wasn't unique either. The Russian tracked BTR-50 and wheeled BTR-60 worked the same way and the latter was 2.5 metres high rather than the HS 30s 1.8. The thing is they all had rear mounted engines and therefore no ability to have ramps.

 

[KevinB]

That creates a conundrum. If you preserve your artillery to not be hit by counterfire, then what good is it in the defence if its not breaking up assaults with defensive fire? What is it being preserved for - a counterattack? These are not big frontages these penetrations - well organized and choreographed artillery should be able to chime in from the shoulders a still have a reserve to counterfire with. It's not that the Russians don't have the guns albeit ammo might be an issue. I tend to think the problem is the "choreographed" bit. Cross boundary artillery support does not seem to be their forte.

They have also had to bring their guns a lot closer due to degraded tubes.
Which makes then even more vulnerable to CB.

Back to the attack issue. That's a really good video and shows the post war evolution of the German infantry very well.

There was a significant difference that I noticed between Canadians - as experienced on the Combat Team Commander's course in Gagetown and that of Panzergrenadiers on battle runs in Shilo. The equipment and manoeuvres - Centurions and M113s in Gagetown - were more ponderous and plodding. In Shilo, with Leo 1s and Marders, the typical attack was pound the objective with artillery while two tank companies fired and manoeuvred their way in up to about 1,000 metres at which point the Panzergrenadier company charged through the tanks (some of whom peeled off to the flanks and kept shooting into the sides and depth of the objectives, while the Marders generally stormed into the forward edge of the objective, disgorged their dismounts, who would fight their way in under cover of the Marders' guns. It was a more violent and mobile attack. I presume attacks in Wainwright now are more in line with what the Germans did in Shilo 5 decades ago.

Obviously there is a difference between the equipment and the terrain between the two but in general there was a feel of a more aggressive attitude. To an extent the drills were also straightforward and simple on the part of the Germans because most of the troops were 9 month conscripts at the time. In the same way too, it's not a surprise that the HS-30 came with a 20mm turreted gun while the M113 and FV432 mounted a .50 on a pintle. The HS-30 was not a mere personnel carrier but meant to provide intimate support to the dismounts. The over-the-top dismount on the HS-30 wasn't unique either. The Russian tracked BTR-50 and wheeled BTR-60 worked the same way and the latter was 2.5 metres high rather than the HS 30s 1.8. The thing is they all had rear mounted engines and therefore no ability to have ramps.

I’ve seen UKR units doing a lot of different techniques.
There have been videos posted of Tanks and IFV on the objective supporting the fight, there have also been a lot of Tank and dismounted infantry, and dismounted infantry only, and Assault Hummer on the objective as well…

I don’t think that one can definitively state that any one specific method is being used, and of course the wide variety of equipment also has a major impact, in addition to the terrain and enemy disposition.

 

[Kirkhill]

I’ve seen UKR units doing a lot of different techniques.
There have been videos posted of Tanks and IFV on the objective supporting the fight, there have also been a lot of Tank and dismounted infantry, and dismounted infantry only, and Assault Hummer on the objective as well…

I don’t think that one can definitively state that any one specific method is being used, and of course the wide variety of equipment also has a major impact, in addition to the terrain and enemy disposition.

This was attached to one of your earlier posts today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1700956120397877665

 

[Kirkhill]

More info on the taking of the gas rigs by the Ukrainians.

It appears to have been unopposed, except for a late intervention by a jet.

Watch: Ukrainian special forces retake strategic drilling rigs near Crimea

The oil and gas platforms had been under Russian control since 2015

www.telegraph.co.uk

Watch: Ukrainian special forces retake strategic drilling rigs near Crimea​

The oil and gas platforms had been under Russian control since 2015

ByJoe Barnes, BRUSSELS CORRESPONDENT11 September 2023 • 3:38pm

Ukrainian special forces have seized off-shore drilling rigs held by Russia since 2015 in a “unique operation” that could boost attempts to regain control of the Black Sea.
Footage released by Ukraine’s military intelligence (GUR) showed troops flying the country’s flag from the structures, known as the Boika Towers.
The oil and gas platforms in the north-west of the Black Sea had been under Russian control since the illegal annexation of the Crimean peninsula.
Moscow had used them to assert military control over the body of water off Ukraine’s southern coast since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, GUR said in the social media post.
The recapture is the latest attack in or around Crimea by Ukrainian special forces or fleets of drone boats.
British military officials last month said the Towers could serve “as forward deployment bases, helicopter landing sites, and to position long-range missile systems”.

Footage released by Ukraine’s military intelligence showed troops flying the country’s flag from the structures, known as the Boika Towers
Video footage of parts of the operation showed operatives from Ukraine’s military intelligence bobbing through the water as they approached the giant platforms in small, inflatable crafts.
Its forces can be seen firing at a Russian Su-30 fighter jet flying overhead their vessels at one point in the 13-minute clip.
The aircraft was “damaged and had to retreat”, GUR said in a statement.
British military officials revealed a clash between Ukrainian forces in a boat and a Russian fighter jet in mid-August, but it remains unclear whether that is the same as announced by GUR.

The recapture is the latest attack in or around Crimea by Ukrainian special forces
It is not known how long it took for Kyiv’s men to regain control over the structures, but the operation is believed to be part of a long-term effort to degrade Russian forces in the Black Sea.
“For Ukraine, regaining control of the Boika Towers was of strategic importance and, as a result, Russia lost the ability to use them for military purposes,” GUR said in the video.
“Russia has been deprived of the ability to fully control the waters of the Black Sea, and this makes Ukraine many steps closer to regaining Crimea.”

Neutralising Russia’s use of the Black Sea is seen as essential to ensure Ukrainian grain exports and preventing barrages of cruise missiles fired from Moscow’s Black Sea fleet.
GUR said it had captured Nar-type unguided missiles fired from helicopters and a Neva radar system used by Russia to monitor sea traffic in the Black Sea.
Ukrainian special forces also claim to have landed on mainland Crimea in recent weeks, attacking Russian air defence systems that give cover against Ukrainian aerial drone raids.
Attacks on mainland Crimea are believed to be aimed at degrading key supply routes to the front lines in southern Ukraine.

The oil and gas platforms in the north-west of the Black Sea had been under Russian control since the illegal annexation of the Crimean peninsula
The Boika Towers comprises four drilling platforms, most notably the Petro Godovanets and Ukraine, which had been under control of Crimea’s oil and gas exploration firm Chernomorneftegaz.
Russian-backed officials had seized the firm from Naftogaz, Ukraine’s state gas enterprise, as the Kremlin bolstered its grip over the occupied peninsula.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Amusing (to me) sidebar....

'Knife hand'... use the knife hand Goldilocks!!



Leadership is not about titles or positions. It's about actions and examples.

#MondayMotivation

Canadian Armed Forces | Forces armées canadiennes | LinkedIn

Canadian Armed Forces | Forces armées canadiennes | 124,966 followers on LinkedIn. A career in the Canadian Armed Forces is more than a way to make a living. It’s a passport to a whole-life experience that will change you and allow you to change the lives of others. Join an organization that...

www.linkedin.com

 

[Kirkhill]

A bit of philosophy is good for the soul ...


We were waging wars before we were human

Why Wars Don't Ever End â A Novelist's Notes From The Ukraine Front Line

In Warsaw-based daily Gazeta Wyborcza, Polish writer Szczepan Twardoch poses a crucial question on the front lines of the war in Ukraine: "What will you do when the war ends?" One answer struck him more than any other...

worldcrunch.com

 

[Haligonian]

McBreen has posted his 300 Assaults document to his website. It has some additional material in the Appendixes such as how to train some of the findings in the report.

https://2ndbn5thmar.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/300-Assaults-McBreen-230601.pdf

 

[KevinB]

That is a very interesting read.