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The War in Ukraine

Lumber said:
Ok so I get that the movie glorifies fascism in a satirical way, and that you "shouldn't" espouse it, however...

On the question/idea specifically of "service equals citizenship", either military service or some kind of federal public service, would support that idea alone be synonymous with supporting fascism?

Like, imagine that in Canada, every citizen is protected by every right in the Chart of Rights and Freedoms, except for the right to vote, which only goes to those who have earned "citizenship". Forget the military junta, forget the totalities, just Canada, with that one caveat. Would that qualify as fascism?
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Its a historical standard practice not necessarily tied to Fascism. There have been many different requirements for suffrage throughout the centuries.

Land ownership being a common one. Being male being the next step in many countries (fun fact Switzerland didn’t let women vote until 1978). Age is also common, used to be 25 in many countries. As was service for citizenship as per rome (though if born into citizenship you retained it). Buying citizenship was also a option for many.

Personally I am not against a certain level of standards to be able to vote. People with no skin in the game shouldn’t be able to have the same level of say as those who do.

Be it by national service (either military or civil), or even the simple requirement to pass the citizenship test when you turn 18. Why should a new citizen have to complete tests, swear oaths, and struggle to earn citizenship well someone born in the country who has done nothing to earn it gets it?

Just swearing a oath of allegiance could be the minimum with the penalty of renouncing that oath being a loss of voting rights permanently.

Those aren’t fascist ideals, they are restrictions democracies throughout history have placed on their citizens. We also have restrictions on who can vote in Canada, namely being a citizen and being over 18.

The rules can be changed as some political parties which to open up voting to younger ages too.
 
KevinB said:
The M57A1 as he notes is unlikely as 1) they are newer but also 2) they are longer than 300km range.
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They'll have 270-300 km options with both unitary and bomblets anyway, so they should be able to do some decent damage on targets of opportunity in the deep rear areas. I think Russian tactical aviation is going to go through some stuff. Probably some high level CPs / HQs as well. Unfortunately there's a very finite inventory available to be sent, but Ukraine seems adept at putting its HIMARS to very good use.
 
brihard said:
You realize that book was a satire of fascism, right? I mean, I love the book, but it’s a cautionary tale; not one to be emulated.
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I tend to disagree with that. The film may have been that but I think in the book Heinlein was exploring some of his own feelings towards what he considered a weakening American society. While some left leaners have given it that interpretation, I tend to follow those who believe that Heinlein was opening up a debate as to the role of the individual in service of the government and society at large.

Here's a short excerpt from an old National Review article

In a Strange Land

JOHN J. MILLER

When Robert A. Heinlein opened his Colorado Springs newspaper on April 5, 1958, he read a full-page ad demanding that the Eisenhower administration stop testing nuclear weapons. The science-fiction author was flabbergasted. He called for the formation of the Patrick Henry League and spent the next several weeks writing and publishing his own polemic that lambasted “Communist-line goals concealed in idealistic-sounding nonsense” and urged Americans not to become “soft-headed.”

Then Heinlein made an important professional decision. He quit writing the manuscript he had been working on — eventually it would become one of his best-known books, Stranger in a Strange Land — and started work on a new novel. Starship Troopers was published the next year, and it quickly became perhaps the most controversial sci-fi tale of all time. Critics labeled Heinlein everything from a Nazi to a racist. “The ‘Patrick Henry’ ad shocked ’em,” he wrote many years later. “Starship Troopers outraged ’em.”

Almost half a century later, the book continues to outrage, shock — and awe. It still has critics, but also armies of admirers. As a coming-of-age story about duty, citizenship, and the role of the military in a free society, Starship Troopers certainly speaks to modern concerns. The U.S. armed services frequently put it on recommended-reading lists. (“For today’s Sailor, this novel is extremely worthwhile,” says a Navy website.) Director Paul Verhoeven turned it into an unfaithful movie in 1997, and a new edition, released last year, features a sand-and-choppers cover that looks curiously like a scene from Iraq. There’s even a grassroots campaign to have a next-generation, Zumwalt-class destroyer named the USS Robert A. Heinlein.
. . .
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FJAG said:
I do too although that bit about moving some production to Germany is worrying.

🍻
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Not at all surprising to me. Why would the German government spend their defence euros to support a Canadian company when the Canadian government won't even support their own defence industry by meeting (or even attempting to meet) the NATO 2% GDP or 20% equipment targets?

Roshel realistically would need to back their offer with a significant portion of the German money flowing back into the German economy for the offer to be at all politically acceptable to the Germans. Smart move on their part as well to establish themselves in the EU where the market is much larger than Canada.
 
GR66 said:
Not at all surprising to me. Why would the German government spend their defence euros to support a Canadian company when the Canadian government won't even support their own defence industry by meeting (or even attempting to meet) the NATO 2% GDP or 20% equipment targets?

Roshel realistically would need to back their offer with a significant portion of the German money flowing back into the German economy for the offer to be at all politically acceptable to the Germans. Smart move on their part as well to establish themselves in the EU where the market is much larger than Canada.
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If I were to take a guess, it would be that the German government does not have enough of a sense of urgency about supplying these vehicles that it would give the job away to a foreign interloper in the place of one of its established (and probably unionized) home-town outfits.

The article states:

The reasons for the constant supply disruptions may be poorly established logistics and production processes, as the German company Flensburger Fahrzeugbau Gesellschaft (FFG) manufactures the vehicles under license, performing only the final assembly from American parts.
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Supposedly some 100 of the vehicles are to be delivered this year (one half of what should have been delivered last year) but these have already been delayed several times this year.

🍻
 
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