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The War in Ukraine

Well, now we know who’s in the Putin Caucus…
Not everyone who doesn't support Ukraine is Putin's dog. If the war drags on as inconclusively as it shows every promise of doing and ends in two years with current front lines as the new borders but a couple of hundred thousand more dead, what's the clever little tag line going to be then?
 
Not everyone who doesn't support Ukraine is Putin's dog. If the war drags on as inconclusively as it shows every promise of doing and ends in two years with current front lines as the new borders but a couple of hundred thousand more dead, what's the clever little tag line going to be then?
Except the recent bills unlike previous assistance, set Ukrainian victory as the goal.
 
If the war drags on as inconclusively as it shows every promise of doing and ends in two years with current front lines as the new borders but a couple of hundred thousand more dead, what's the clever little tag line going to be then?
“Evil has won” That will be the “tag line”

If Neville Chamberlain had been right and giving the Sudetenland had been sufficient to satiate Hitler, that still would have been evil winning.
 
Except the recent bills unlike previous assistance, set Ukrainian victory as the goal.
Ukrainian victory isn't going to happen without an army with the mass and expertise to breach the Russian defences where it matters. And these relative teacups of aid aren't going to achieve that.
 
“Evil has won”
Perhaps. But Evil didn't manage to take down Ukraine politically in the first month, and Evil encouraged some strategically significant NATO add-ons, and Evil is weaker if the Chinese decide to get frisky. If NATO decides to take the risk of admitting a foreshortened Ukraine after hostilities cease, I'd conclude Evil has really f*cked up.
 
Ukrainian victory isn't going to happen without an army with the mass and expertise to breach the Russian defences where it matters. And these relative teacups of aid aren't going to achieve that.
But long range missiles, more artillery ammunition, and AD systems will put a significant crimp in Russian forces, and bring more pain into Russia.

Russia is ‘winning’ currently due to their ability to smash terrain and force Ukraine back. Being able to move Anti Air systems forward (in addition to protecting civilian areas) Russia will not be able to glide bomb the Piss out of areas, and will be struck deeper and deeper.

Yes there needs to be more training and more equipment- but given the last 6 months, this is a welcome add.
 
But long range missiles, more artillery ammunition, and AD systems will put a significant crimp in Russian forces, and bring more pain into Russia.

Russia is ‘winning’ currently due to their ability to smash terrain and force Ukraine back. Being able to move Anti Air systems forward (in addition to protecting civilian areas) Russia will not be able to glide bomb the Piss out of areas, and will be struck deeper and deeper.

Yes there needs to be more training and more equipment- but given the last 6 months, this is a welcome add.
"Ukrainian victory" is "preventing Ukranian collapse"?
 
Not everyone who doesn't support Ukraine is Putin's dog. If the war drags on as inconclusively as it shows every promise of doing and ends in two years with current front lines as the new borders but a couple of hundred thousand more dead, what's the clever little tag line going to be then?

If it drags on, those who vote against Ukrainian sovereignty and security (and, by consequence, against America’s bigger picture strategic security) will still at best be Putin’s lapdogs, witting or unwitting. Some are outright Quislings. That ethical alignment isn’t contingent on the end result of the war. Leaving Ukraine hung out to dry for some years doesn’t become moral or right if in the end they manage to do so successfully.
 
why do we need Ukrainian victory? Ill take another 400,000 to 800,000 casualties and half or double the platform losses that the Russians have suffered. It would be the same if we were supporting India against China or some other conflict

 
why do we need Ukrainian victory? Ill take another 400,000 to 800,000 casualties and half or double the platform losses that the Russians have suffered. It would be the same if we were supporting India against China or some other conflict

Let's flip that assumption. Why do you want Russian Victory? Does that make NATO more secure? Safer?

And no, it is not the same at all. India and China are not sharing borders with NATO members who can invoke Article 5 and compel us to become involved.
 
Let's flip that assumption. Why do you want Russian Victory? Does that make NATO more secure? Safer?

And no, it is not the same at all. India and China are not sharing borders with NATO members who can invoke Article 5 and compel us to become involved.
I dont

China is geopolitical opponent
 
Im not forcing any Ukrainian to fight. They can surrender anytime they want
Russia can surrender or withdraw any time they want also. The difference is if Russia withdraws, they are left whole (territorially) and can continue to exist.

If Ukraine surrenders, they cease to exist as a country, their population will become persecuted, tortured and killed, enslaved with their children brainwashed, and conscripted into the Russian army to fight the next Russian war - be it Moldova or the Suwałki Gap or Georgia or...... Russia will acquire a huge amount of petrocarbon and other resources and be in an even better strategic position to force their will upon Europe.

You say you are 40 years too old. That would make you about 100 since even in Canada, let alone Ukraine, you can be in the military until 60 (or longer if highly skilled or ranked). So I doubt you are actually too old. I read that as you would be unwilling to fight against Russia if NATO and Canada became involved. To each his own I guess.

And that does not even consider the geopolitical message it sends to "the Axis of Resistance" (their term, not mine). China, Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Cuba, Syria, Lebanon or any of the other 67 autocracies/dictatorships around the world who might decide that the global 'North' (aka western democracies) has no will or power to prevent or punish them from declaring war and invading their neighbors in a territorial, water/oil/resource grab.

The only marginally safe countries will be those that possess a nuclear deterrent. Many many more countries will immediately start to develop their own nuclear defense capability puttng the entire globe, and humankind, at more risk.

I assume from your presence here that you have some sort of interest or experience with military, Canadian or otherwise. So to promote a let 'Russia win' position says to me you are either incredibly poorly informed, a troll, or a pro Russian sympathiser/agent.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I suggest you broaden your horizons and apparently parochial view of this conflict and think of the world your offspring and relatives would have to live in should your preferred outcome take place.
 
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