The War in Ukraine

[Remius]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-deploy-ukraine/index.html

Biden is looking to do as much as possible before the eventual “deal”

 

[KevinB]

Well since it is being talked about openly now

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854539298160177549

Mike Pompeo as SecDef, and Robert O'Brian as National Security Advisor would most likely be at lot more aggressive on Russia, and supportive of Ukraine than Snake Sullivan is.

 

[RangerRay]

Well since it is being talked about openly now

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854539298160177549

Mike Pompeo as SecDef, and Robert O'Brian as National Security Advisor would most likely be at lot more aggressive on Russia, and supportive of Ukraine than Snake Sullivan is.

But would Russia turn down an offer that effectively forces the Finlandization of Ukraine and leaves them in control of ~20% of Ukrainian territory?

 

[KevinB]

But would Russia turn down an offer that effectively forces the Finlandization of Ukraine and leaves them in control of ~20% of Ukrainian territory?

I understand that there are about 5 major versions of Trumps Peace Plan being floated.

Some are much more aggressive than others.

 

[Kirkhill]

Mike Pompeo is the man who presented the "Trump's peace" plan in the summer, which is an unhoped for plan for Ukraine (includes 500 billion lend-lease, implemented if Putin does NOT want to accept the solutions proposed by the US and not by Russia).

500 BUSD of Lend Lease Aid?

What will be the Transfer Price on the old Bradleys and M113s in reserve inventory?

Destroyers-for-bases deal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The destroyers-for-bases deal was an agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom on September 2, 1940, according to which 50 Caldwell, Wickes, and Clemson-class US Navy destroyers were transferred to the Royal Navy from the US Navy in exchange for land rights on British possessions.

Generally referred to as the "twelve hundred-ton type" (also known as "flush-deck", or "four-pipers" after their four funnels), the destroyers became the British Town class and were named after towns common to both countries. US President Franklin Roosevelt used an executive agreement, which does not require congressional approval. He was sharply criticised from antiwar Americans, who pointed out that the agreement violated the Neutrality Acts.

Destroyers for bases, followed by Lend-Lease, followed by the Marshall Plan.

 

[Kirkhill]

I understand that there are about 5 major versions of Trumps Peace Plan being floated.

Some are much more aggressive than others.

Pick a card, any card.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Well since it is being talked about openly now

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854539298160177549

Mike Pompeo as SecDef, and Robert O'Brian as National Security Advisor would most likely be at lot more aggressive on Russia, and supportive of Ukraine than Snake Sullivan is.

Note who else is at least allegedly in on the conversations, though.

Musk Reportedly Took Part In Call Between Trump And Zelenskiy

Elon Musk was present during a phone conversation between U.S. President-elect Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, according to media reports citing sources.

www.rferl.org

Original report in Axios here.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Yea, Crimean war 2.0 or is it 3.0?

Great movie when it was actual people acting out the scenes and not CGI. Might have to watch it again.

Back to regular programming.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Cat, meet pigeons...

UK and EU Hasten Work on Defense Pact After Trump’s Victory​

The EU is seeking to accelerate talks with the UK on a new defense and security pact, with the election of Donald Trump raising concerns in Europe that it will need to boost aid to Ukraine amid the possibility of reduced American support.

A UK-European Union defense accord is now a top priority in their relations and has gained momentum in recent days, according to people familiar with the talks.

UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer and EU leaders used a summit in Budapest on Thursday to intensify talks about ways the security relationship could be ramped up, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. UK officials are looking into what would be included in such a pact, and are considering steps like common procurement of weapons and more joint military exercises and expeditions.

UK and EU Hasten Work on Defense Pact After Trump’s Victory

The EU is seeking to accelerate talks with the UK on a new defense and security pact, with the election of Donald Trump raising concerns in Europe that it will need to boost aid to Ukraine amid the possibility of reduced American support.

www.bnnbloomberg.ca

 

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile, so far, not much public buy-in from UKR on alleged proposals for an alleged ceasefire ....

Trump's team mulls postponing Ukraine's NATO membership for at least 20 years, WSJ reports

One idea within U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's team for ending Russia's war involves delaying Kyiv's NATO membership for at least 20 years in exchange for continued arms supplies, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported on Nov. 6, citing three sources close to Trump.

kyivindependent.com

With Trump Win, Orban Urges 'Move From War To Peace' In Ukraine

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban urged fellow Europeans on Friday to recognise that Donald Trump's re-election will change the game regarding Russia's war in Ukraine, and agree to "move from war to peace".

www.barrons.com

Zelensky spurns Donald Trump's alleged "peace plan"

Zelensky also addressed the Hungarian leader, saying a quick resolution would be "preparation to ruin and destroy our independence."

www.newsweek.com

Volodymyr Zelenskyy Rejects Trump's Plan For Speedy End To Ukraine War

He said a quick ceasefire would be "a loss" for his country.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

Still betting on "UKR gets screwed and won't get back land" with POTUS47, although I'd be happy to be mistaken.

 

[dimsum]

Meanwhile, so far, not much public buy-in from UKR on alleged proposals for an alleged ceasefire ....

Trump's team mulls postponing Ukraine's NATO membership for at least 20 years, WSJ reports

One idea within U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's team for ending Russia's war involves delaying Kyiv's NATO membership for at least 20 years in exchange for continued arms supplies, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported on Nov. 6, citing three sources close to Trump.

kyivindependent.com

With Trump Win, Orban Urges 'Move From War To Peace' In Ukraine

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban urged fellow Europeans on Friday to recognise that Donald Trump's re-election will change the game regarding Russia's war in Ukraine, and agree to "move from war to peace".

www.barrons.com

Zelensky spurns Donald Trump's alleged "peace plan"

Zelensky also addressed the Hungarian leader, saying a quick resolution would be "preparation to ruin and destroy our independence."

www.newsweek.com

Volodymyr Zelenskyy Rejects Trump's Plan For Speedy End To Ukraine War

He said a quick ceasefire would be "a loss" for his country.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

Still betting on "UKR gets screwed and won't get back land" with POTUS47, although I'd be happy to be mistaken.

Well I, for one, am shocked that UKR would reject Trump’s plan to end the war in 24 hours.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Well I, for one, am shocked that UKR would reject Trump’s plan to end the war in 24 hours.

I mean look at how well his deal worked for Afghanistan

 

[PuckChaser]

Please don't make us have to move this thread to the politics area because folks can't help themselves name calling politicians. I think the general users here are more articulate than reducing themselves to using ad hominems.

- Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Remius]

Well since it is being talked about openly now

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854539298160177549

Mike Pompeo as SecDef, and Robert O'Brian as National Security Advisor would most likely be at lot more aggressive on Russia, and supportive of Ukraine than Snake Sullivan is.

Looks like Pompeo will not be joining Trump’s administration.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-haley-pompeo-will-not-join-second-administration-2024-11-10/

 

[Rifleman62]

One way to look at the cost of war to the West.

 

[RangerRay]

The Scandinavians and Baltics are not surprisingly taking this very seriously. Unfortunately in real terms, it’s still not enough.

The next serious ones are North America and the UK (I was about to say “Anglosphere”, but that’s not accurate). Unfortunately, only one of those countries can make a meaningful contribution in real terms and all indications are pointing to them getting cold feet.

 

[suffolkowner]

France/Spain/Italy need to drink more coffee

Macron talks a lot of shit for what they deliver

 

[The Bread Guy]

One way to look at the cost of war to the West.View attachment 88994

According to my quick Google-fu, Canada has pumped ~$10.6B into UKR (mil & civvy), so if you divide that by ~42 million population, that's about $254 per Canadian between January '22 and June '24, or about $9/month/person. That's an average price of about $3.60/coffee.

Wonder how much coffee costs in these other countries and what that does to the calculus?

 

[suffolkowner]

According to my quick Google-fu, Canada has pumped ~$10.6B into UKR (mil & civvy), so if you divide that by ~42 million population, that's about $254 per Canadian between January '22 and June '24, or about $9/month/person. That's an average price of about $3.60/coffee.

Wonder how much coffee costs in these other countries and what that does to the calculus?

Maybe cup means some specific size ? I don't drink coffee lol

 

[FJAG]

Good point if accurate. Now what about the companion graphic on the cost to a North American?

???? I think its on the graphic itself. I'm surprised Canada is committing more that the average European.