- Reaction score
- 6,368
- Points
- 1,160
Nuclear weapons? Just a thought, but probably one that doesn't meet with too much agreement.
The Threat of Modern Piracy- A Merged Thread
- Thread starter CougarKing
- Start date
Nuclear weapons? Just a thought, but probably one that doesn't meet with too much agreement.
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 16
- Points
- 430
recceguy said:Nuclear weapons? Just a thought, but probably one that doesn't meet with too much agreement.
Well ... Somalia isn't in the media usually except when there is crime happening.
So if a country would "accidentally" drop a bomb overthere, perhaps only after a few weeks,
journalists would start asking themself why is there no story anymore from there ?
(I'm not advocating for a bomb drop, just asking was would happen if >
...)
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
Just a Sig Op said:
Thanks to the both of you...I am a little disappointed with my recognition skills
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 16
- Points
- 430
How do you tackle piracy?, BBC News
On the island state of Bahrain, home to the headquarters of the US Navy's powerful 5th Fleet,
defence ministers, admirals and officials from 25 countries have gathered to discuss, amongst
other regional problems, the thorny issue of Somali pirates.
Over the past year, delegates were told, there had been a 300% increase in attempted and
actual attacks on shipping in the region, with 17 ships and around 300 crew members currently
being held for ransom off the Somalia coast.
In a keynote speech on Saturday the US Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, called on commercial
shipping companies to do more to protect their vessels transiting the Gulf of Aden or sailing past
the Horn of Africa. Instead of stopping when challenged by pirates, he said, they should accelerate
and pull up their ladders as there had been plenty of recent instances of ships outmanoeuvring the
pirates. He also suggested that another possible preventative measure could be to post armed
guards onboard, but shipping sources in London were quick to dismiss this as impractical.
A leading maritime lawyer told the BBC that if insurers could prove that an armed clash with pirates
constituted "unlawful use of weapons at sea" then the insurance company would be unlikely to pay
up for any damage or loss of the ship and its cargo. No shipping company, said the lawyer, would
want that.
One option under discussion here in the Gulf is possible military action against pirate bases on land,
since nearly everyone agreed that tackling pirates at sea is only dealing with the symptoms of the
problem, not the root cause.
The US is sponsoring a draft UN Security Council resolution that would authorise - with permission
from the weak Somali government - attacks on pirate land bases.
But while Mr Gates said he believed that the problem came from two or three extended Somali clans,
the US did not yet have enough intelligence on which individuals were involved to go after them
without causing civilian casualties. The one thing that had been established, said US naval officers,
was that there was no connection between piracy and terrorism.
Consequences
If that changed, they said, then the rules of engagement were likely to become a lot more robust.
Britain's Defence Secretary John Hutton added his own views on piracy, telling the BBC in an
interview that the world was paying a price for ignoring Somalia's descent into lawlessness and
that piracy was the result. He said the nature of the threat had changed dramatically over the
last 12 months and that the problem stemmed from the pirates' bases on land.
"We haven't been as involved in Somalia as we should have been. This is the consequence.
"It could get worse unless we try and resolve this problem with our regional partners and
friends and allies around the world. The piracy is a manifestation of failed states. "It could
take other manifestations: terrorism, drugs, people trafficking and so on. We cannot
allow these remote parts of the world to descend into this type of chaos."
International prison?
Finally, there is the question of how to prosecute those accused of piracy. Senior naval
officers from the US, France and other nations agreed here that there was an urgent
need to establish an international legal framework for prosecution.
Currently navies are reluctant to arrest alleged pirates as in most cases there was nowhere
to take them to stand trial. What was needed, said some officers, was an international court,
backed by the UN, with perhaps even an international prison for those convicted.
On the island state of Bahrain, home to the headquarters of the US Navy's powerful 5th Fleet,
defence ministers, admirals and officials from 25 countries have gathered to discuss, amongst
other regional problems, the thorny issue of Somali pirates.
Over the past year, delegates were told, there had been a 300% increase in attempted and
actual attacks on shipping in the region, with 17 ships and around 300 crew members currently
being held for ransom off the Somalia coast.
In a keynote speech on Saturday the US Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, called on commercial
shipping companies to do more to protect their vessels transiting the Gulf of Aden or sailing past
the Horn of Africa. Instead of stopping when challenged by pirates, he said, they should accelerate
and pull up their ladders as there had been plenty of recent instances of ships outmanoeuvring the
pirates. He also suggested that another possible preventative measure could be to post armed
guards onboard, but shipping sources in London were quick to dismiss this as impractical.
A leading maritime lawyer told the BBC that if insurers could prove that an armed clash with pirates
constituted "unlawful use of weapons at sea" then the insurance company would be unlikely to pay
up for any damage or loss of the ship and its cargo. No shipping company, said the lawyer, would
want that.
One option under discussion here in the Gulf is possible military action against pirate bases on land,
since nearly everyone agreed that tackling pirates at sea is only dealing with the symptoms of the
problem, not the root cause.
The US is sponsoring a draft UN Security Council resolution that would authorise - with permission
from the weak Somali government - attacks on pirate land bases.
But while Mr Gates said he believed that the problem came from two or three extended Somali clans,
the US did not yet have enough intelligence on which individuals were involved to go after them
without causing civilian casualties. The one thing that had been established, said US naval officers,
was that there was no connection between piracy and terrorism.
Consequences
If that changed, they said, then the rules of engagement were likely to become a lot more robust.
Britain's Defence Secretary John Hutton added his own views on piracy, telling the BBC in an
interview that the world was paying a price for ignoring Somalia's descent into lawlessness and
that piracy was the result. He said the nature of the threat had changed dramatically over the
last 12 months and that the problem stemmed from the pirates' bases on land.
"We haven't been as involved in Somalia as we should have been. This is the consequence.
"It could get worse unless we try and resolve this problem with our regional partners and
friends and allies around the world. The piracy is a manifestation of failed states. "It could
take other manifestations: terrorism, drugs, people trafficking and so on. We cannot
allow these remote parts of the world to descend into this type of chaos."
International prison?
Finally, there is the question of how to prosecute those accused of piracy. Senior naval
officers from the US, France and other nations agreed here that there was an urgent
need to establish an international legal framework for prosecution.
Currently navies are reluctant to arrest alleged pirates as in most cases there was nowhere
to take them to stand trial. What was needed, said some officers, was an international court,
backed by the UN, with perhaps even an international prison for those convicted.
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 16
- Points
- 430
Pirate problem needs 'strategy', BBC News
World leaders have to deal "properly" with piracy off the Somalian coast,
UK Defence Secretary John Hutton has said. He told the BBC the problem
had to be looked at strategically, with restoring law and order in the
region a priority.
But Mr Hutton said it was "too early" to talk about directly intervening in
war-torn Somalia, which he described as a "basket case". The US
government is to urge the UN this week to authorise "all necessary
measures" against Somali pirates.
Civilian risks
The dangers facing shipping in the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden
came to international prominence last month when giant Saudi-owned
oil tanker Sirius Star was hijacked.
There are regular attacks in the area, with many countries blaming the
collapse of law and order in Somalia. US Secretary of State Condoleezza
Rice will present a draft UN Security Council resolution this week calling
for permission to "take all necessary measures ashore in Somalia".
However, on Saturday the top US naval commander in the Gulf and Indian
Ocean, Vice-Admiral Bill Gortney, dampened hopes that piracy could be
tackled by attacking bases on land. He said such a policy would be
hampered by the difficulties of identifying the pirates and the risks
of harming civilians.
'From the land'
Questioned on BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend, Mr Hutton said:
"We've got to look at this problem in a strategic context. "I think there's
an immediate short-term imperative to protect shipping, but we've got
to look at this problem at its source, and it comes from the land, not just
the sea.
"So we've got to look very carefully at what we can do to tackle the problem
in the way the problem is manifested, and also what lies behind the problem."
On Sunday, Somali president Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed sacked prime minister
Nur Hassan Hussein and the interim government.
'Ungoverned space'
The country has not had a functioning national government since president
Mohamed Siad Barre was overthrown in 1991.
Mr Hutton said: "Somalia is a basket case, I'm afraid. It's a classic area where
you've got ungoverned space, no effective state apparatus, and criminality and
potential terrorism. "The world community has got to address this problem
seriously. We've got to look very carefully at what we've got to do, together
with our allies in the international community, to restore law and order to that
very troubled part of the world."
Asked whether this might mean directly intervening in Somalia, Mr Hutton said:
"I think it's far too early to speculate about that. Right now our mission is dealing
with the immediate problem that the pirates pose to international shipping on
the high seas. "There needs to be discussion about how we can properly deal
with this problem in the long term."
World leaders have to deal "properly" with piracy off the Somalian coast,
UK Defence Secretary John Hutton has said. He told the BBC the problem
had to be looked at strategically, with restoring law and order in the
region a priority.
But Mr Hutton said it was "too early" to talk about directly intervening in
war-torn Somalia, which he described as a "basket case". The US
government is to urge the UN this week to authorise "all necessary
measures" against Somali pirates.
Civilian risks
The dangers facing shipping in the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden
came to international prominence last month when giant Saudi-owned
oil tanker Sirius Star was hijacked.
There are regular attacks in the area, with many countries blaming the
collapse of law and order in Somalia. US Secretary of State Condoleezza
Rice will present a draft UN Security Council resolution this week calling
for permission to "take all necessary measures ashore in Somalia".
However, on Saturday the top US naval commander in the Gulf and Indian
Ocean, Vice-Admiral Bill Gortney, dampened hopes that piracy could be
tackled by attacking bases on land. He said such a policy would be
hampered by the difficulties of identifying the pirates and the risks
of harming civilians.
'From the land'
Questioned on BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend, Mr Hutton said:
"We've got to look at this problem in a strategic context. "I think there's
an immediate short-term imperative to protect shipping, but we've got
to look at this problem at its source, and it comes from the land, not just
the sea.
"So we've got to look very carefully at what we can do to tackle the problem
in the way the problem is manifested, and also what lies behind the problem."
On Sunday, Somali president Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed sacked prime minister
Nur Hassan Hussein and the interim government.
'Ungoverned space'
The country has not had a functioning national government since president
Mohamed Siad Barre was overthrown in 1991.
Mr Hutton said: "Somalia is a basket case, I'm afraid. It's a classic area where
you've got ungoverned space, no effective state apparatus, and criminality and
potential terrorism. "The world community has got to address this problem
seriously. We've got to look very carefully at what we've got to do, together
with our allies in the international community, to restore law and order to that
very troubled part of the world."
Asked whether this might mean directly intervening in Somalia, Mr Hutton said:
"I think it's far too early to speculate about that. Right now our mission is dealing
with the immediate problem that the pirates pose to international shipping on
the high seas. "There needs to be discussion about how we can properly deal
with this problem in the long term."
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 16
- Points
- 430
Chinese ships will fight pirates, BBC News
China has announced it is to send naval ships to fight rampant piracy
in the Gulf of Aden off the coast of Somalia.
State media suggested the force could consist of two destroyers and
a supply ship, although officials did not confirm the details of the
deployment.
On Wednesday, Malaysian naval forces helped foil an attempt to
hijack a Chinese ship by Somali pirates. The latest operation is
a first for Beijing, which has until now pursued a policy of military
non-interference.
China's navy, along with the rest of its military, has not often
strayed far from home. But China's military spending has increased
dramatically in recent years as its armed forces undergo a thorough
modernisation.
This is its first active deployment beyond the Pacific, and naval analysts
will be watching closely to see how the Chinese cope with the complex
maintenance and re-supply problems of operating so far from home,
the BBC's diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus says.
UN resolution
Foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told journalists that
preparations to dispatch the vessels were under way. He said
further details would be provided when the operation was
formally announced.
But the state-run Global Times newspaper said two destroyers
and one supply ship would depart from a Chinese naval base
on Hainan island after 25 December.
On Wednesday the UN Security Council unanimously approved
a resolution allowing foreign military forces to pursue pirates
on land in Somalia, though Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has
said the time is not right for such a mission.
Pirates foiled
The Gulf of Aden is a region of key strategic importance for China
whose economy depends heavily upon a secure supply of oil and
raw materials from abroad, our correspondent says.
Four or five Chinese ships pass through the busy channel every day.
Seven Chinese ships or crews have been attacked this year, Mr Liu said.
On Wednesday, the Zhenhua 4 was attacked by Somali pirates. The crew
used water cannon and bottles to try to fight off their attackers, according
to local media reports. But it was the intervention of Malaysian naval forces,
with support from other countries, that thwarted the pirates.
China has announced it is to send naval ships to fight rampant piracy
in the Gulf of Aden off the coast of Somalia.
State media suggested the force could consist of two destroyers and
a supply ship, although officials did not confirm the details of the
deployment.
On Wednesday, Malaysian naval forces helped foil an attempt to
hijack a Chinese ship by Somali pirates. The latest operation is
a first for Beijing, which has until now pursued a policy of military
non-interference.
China's navy, along with the rest of its military, has not often
strayed far from home. But China's military spending has increased
dramatically in recent years as its armed forces undergo a thorough
modernisation.
This is its first active deployment beyond the Pacific, and naval analysts
will be watching closely to see how the Chinese cope with the complex
maintenance and re-supply problems of operating so far from home,
the BBC's diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus says.
UN resolution
Foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told journalists that
preparations to dispatch the vessels were under way. He said
further details would be provided when the operation was
formally announced.
But the state-run Global Times newspaper said two destroyers
and one supply ship would depart from a Chinese naval base
on Hainan island after 25 December.
On Wednesday the UN Security Council unanimously approved
a resolution allowing foreign military forces to pursue pirates
on land in Somalia, though Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has
said the time is not right for such a mission.
Pirates foiled
The Gulf of Aden is a region of key strategic importance for China
whose economy depends heavily upon a secure supply of oil and
raw materials from abroad, our correspondent says.
Four or five Chinese ships pass through the busy channel every day.
Seven Chinese ships or crews have been attacked this year, Mr Liu said.
On Wednesday, the Zhenhua 4 was attacked by Somali pirates. The crew
used water cannon and bottles to try to fight off their attackers, according
to local media reports. But it was the intervention of Malaysian naval forces,
with support from other countries, that thwarted the pirates.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
- 12,428
- Points
- 1,160
I suspect the only way to fix the area is to start small, help Somaliland to build it’s economy and infrastructure, offer to help settle the land dispute between it and Puntland. Somaliland’s government wants to go ahead and likely should recognized as a state. Offer incentives to Puntland to clean up it’s act, Once you have these 2 states working more or less, then perhaps divide up the rest of Somalia into manageable bits that can run themselves, maybe in a 100 years they will come back together. The current formula ain’t working.
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 16
- Points
- 430
Colin P said:
"Somalia has not had an effective national government for 17 years"
Yep, I would say that the current formula ain't working, and seems to be a disaster ...
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 16
- Points
- 430
Pirates to receive millions in ransom for release of arms ship, CNN
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Pirates holding a ship full of tanks and ammunition off the coast
of Somalia are likely to be paid millions of dollars in ransom within days, senior U.S.
military officials said. The pirates have been holding the Ukrainian-operated, Belize-
flagged MV Faina and its 20-person crew in the Gulf of Aden since September 25.
Military officials said the cash payment will be brought on the ship, directly to
the pirates. Such a procedure is common because of the lack of electronic banking
in Somalia. The officials would not say how much ransom is being paid or who is
paying it because it would be up to the individuals or company to make that
announcement.
What's known is that the pirates originally asked for a $35 million ransom, but
lowered their demand to $20 million, Andrew Mwangura of the Kenya Seafarers
Association told CNN in November.
The ship is laden with Soviet-era tanks, tank artillery shells, grenade launchers
and small arms. The merchant vessel was heading for Kenya, whose government
had bought the weapons from Ukraine, Ukrainian Defense Minister Yuri Yekhanurov
said, according to the Interfax-Ukraine news agency.
Officials said a ransom was close to being paid to the pirates weeks ago, but it did
not come through and the merchant vessel remained under control of the hijackers.
The captain of the ship died of a heart attack days after the hijacking. His body remains
on the ship, kept in a giant cooler to slow down decomposition, officials said.
The U.S. Navy has been shadowing the Faina every day since its capture, officials said.
There has been some communication with the pirates during that time, such as checks
on the status of the crew.
The Pentagon has been very interested in this hijacking because of concerns that the
large amount of ammunition on board might be taken off the ship and put into the hands
of gangs on the Somali shore. Navy officials said its ships would offer medical aid and
food to the crew once the pirates give up the ship.
Pirate activity off the coastline of east Africa is a cause of growing international concern,
with a number of ships -- including the Saudi-owned supertanker Sirius Star -- being
captured in the past few weeks. The Gulf of Aden is now being patrolled by a number
of international navies.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Pirates holding a ship full of tanks and ammunition off the coast
of Somalia are likely to be paid millions of dollars in ransom within days, senior U.S.
military officials said. The pirates have been holding the Ukrainian-operated, Belize-
flagged MV Faina and its 20-person crew in the Gulf of Aden since September 25.
Military officials said the cash payment will be brought on the ship, directly to
the pirates. Such a procedure is common because of the lack of electronic banking
in Somalia. The officials would not say how much ransom is being paid or who is
paying it because it would be up to the individuals or company to make that
announcement.
What's known is that the pirates originally asked for a $35 million ransom, but
lowered their demand to $20 million, Andrew Mwangura of the Kenya Seafarers
Association told CNN in November.
The ship is laden with Soviet-era tanks, tank artillery shells, grenade launchers
and small arms. The merchant vessel was heading for Kenya, whose government
had bought the weapons from Ukraine, Ukrainian Defense Minister Yuri Yekhanurov
said, according to the Interfax-Ukraine news agency.
Officials said a ransom was close to being paid to the pirates weeks ago, but it did
not come through and the merchant vessel remained under control of the hijackers.
The captain of the ship died of a heart attack days after the hijacking. His body remains
on the ship, kept in a giant cooler to slow down decomposition, officials said.
The U.S. Navy has been shadowing the Faina every day since its capture, officials said.
There has been some communication with the pirates during that time, such as checks
on the status of the crew.
The Pentagon has been very interested in this hijacking because of concerns that the
large amount of ammunition on board might be taken off the ship and put into the hands
of gangs on the Somali shore. Navy officials said its ships would offer medical aid and
food to the crew once the pirates give up the ship.
Pirate activity off the coastline of east Africa is a cause of growing international concern,
with a number of ships -- including the Saudi-owned supertanker Sirius Star -- being
captured in the past few weeks. The Gulf of Aden is now being patrolled by a number
of international navies.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,781
- Points
- 1,160
tank artillery shells eh?
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
geo said:
hey the news media got it right for once that these were acyual tanks...half the time they call M113s...tanks.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
Chinese troops march in Beijing. China is preparing to send warships to fight rampant piracy off the coast of Somalia, the government said Thursday, a day after one of its commercial vessels foiled an attack near the African state. (AFP/File/Frederic J. Brown)
(I can almost hear them marching...yi er san si, zuo you zou...1,2,3, 4, left right left...yikes!)
Indian soldiers stand guard as Somali suspected pirates sit handcuffed on the deck of the Indian warship INS Mysore, off the southern Yemeni port of Aden, December 17, 2008. The Indian Navy on Wednesday handed over to Yemeni coast guard officials 12 suspected Somali pirates caught by an Indian Navy ship in the Gulf of Aden on December 13, Yemen's state news agency Saba reported. REUTERS/Yemen News Agency/Handout (YEMEN).
A French army helicopter takes off from the French frigate Nivose off the coast of Djibouti on November 27, 2008 as part of an assignment of the French frigate Nivose to escort commercial ships in the Gulf of Aden. Chinese sailors fought off Somali pirates trying to hijack their ship in the Gulf of Aden on Wednesday in a new wave of attacks that saw three other vessels captured. (AFP/File/Eric Cabanis)
Canadian Navy sailors provide an anti-pirate escort for a ship taking food aid to Somalia in September. The UN Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution for the first time authorizing international land operations against audacious, armed pirates sheltering in Somalia. (AFP/File/Simon Maina)
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
Tehran wants to join the fray as well, it seems.
Iran sends warship to Gulf of Aden
Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:39:25 GMT
Iran has sent a warship on a patrol mission to the Gulf of Aden amid continued reports of ship hijacking by Somali pirates in the region.
According to a report by Fars News Agency, the Iranian warship arrived in the Gulf of Aden after traveling some 4,000 maritime miles and carried out a naval exercise in preparation for a potential clash with the pirates.
The Iranian ship is to join vessels from the US, Denmark, Russia, Italy and other countries to create a security corridor in the pirate-infested waters.
The deployment comes after Somali pirates hijacked the Hong Kong-flagged cargo ship, Delight, operated by the Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines (IRISL) in the Gulf of Aden in November.
The attack was the second since August 21, when Iran's Diyanat ship was boarded by about 40 pirates armed with AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades after passing the Horn of Africa.
The Gulf of Aden, which links the Indian Ocean with the Suez Canal and the Mediterranean Sea, is the quickest route for more than 20,000 vessels going from Asia to Europe and the Americas every year.
International warships have increased cooperation to crack down on buccaneers; however, pirate raids have not abated in the Gulf of Aden.
Earlier in December, a member of the Iranian parliament's National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Parviz Sarvari warned that Iran is mulling over a military option against Somali pirates.
Attacks by heavily-armed Somali raiders in speedboats have prompted some of the world's biggest shipping firms to switch routes from the Suez Canal and send cargo vessels around southern Africa, causing a hike in shipping costs.
Noel Choong, head of the International Maritime Bureau's Piracy Reporting Center, earlier told AP that there have been more than 100 attacks on ships off the coast of Somalia, resulting in the hijacking of more than 40 vessels so far this year.
He added that 14 vessels and more than 250 crewmembers remain in the hands of pirates.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=79040...ionid=351020101
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
And even countries without coasts and navies want to pitch in to help!
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
geo said:
Now that will be a sight to see ;D
EDITED FOR SPELLING
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 208
- Points
- 710
The NFLD Grinch said:
Where is this site located?
Similar threads
