The Simunition Merged Thread- Check Here First

[D-n-A]

Originally posted by Da_man:
[qb]

Originally posted by D-n-A:
[qb] Pte Gremlin, you wont be doing it on your BMQ or SQ, once your qualifed and can go on ex‘s with your unit, thats when your be able to use it(if your unit goes on a Ex with simmunition) [/qb]

i dont have my BMQ but i did FATS training [/qb]

Whats FATS? is it the same as SAT?
you shoot a rifle or mg, etc at a big screen

As far as I know, you cant do that untill your qualified on the C7, like when you pass the PWT1 on BMQ.

 

[Da_man]

Whats FATS? is it the same as SAT?
you shoot a rifle or mg, etc at a big screen

As far as I know, you cant do that untill your qualified on the C7, like when you pass the PWT1 on BMQ.

yes, looks like we can.

I got a shitty 20 cm grouping at 100 meters on the range tho

 

[leopard11]

what is in a set of simmunition (IE: how many rounds, and does it come with anything else like mags?)

 

[The_Falcon]

The rounds come in box in tray all seperated, with different colours (so you know if you were shot by the enemy or friendlies). There is an entirely different upper reciever group and bolt carrier (as the simmunition that you can shot each other with is 9mm). The mag is the same size as a standard 30rd mag, only it is clear plastic, and only takes the 9mm simmuntion rounds. There is also a special helmet and throat protection. As a side note thier are different types of simmuntion round (some you can use on people most you can‘t). All info can be found at www.simunition.com

 

[1feral1]

At the Defence Police Training Centre at Greenhills, Holsworthy, they use this eqpt on their Glock 19s. Wierd, blue slide, and the rifling in the bbl is different too.

They brought one in to us one day, as they could not get the slide off the body. So after some tinkering, it came off, but was so dirty, I was suprised it would fire.

4RAR (Cdo) uses the same thing on the M4, but I have not sen that one. I have been told, the sting from a shot is not someting you‘ll soon forget.

A good trg tool, better than blanks, as you can be ‘stung‘ by this, and thats more of a reason to pay attn to your drills, and stay under/behind cover when you can. Adds to the realism.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[The_Falcon]

Yeah they hurt, they told us to wear gloves, as they have a tendency to break bare skin. Although on guy got shot on the inside of bicep, and through his shirt it still left a bleeding welt.

And you are right Wesley, they are intended to let you know what getting shot could feel like, so you learn how not to.

 

[Da_man]

Originally posted by Hatchet Man:
[qb] Yeah they hurt, they told us to wear gloves, as they have a tendency to break bare skin. Although on guy got shot on the inside of bicep, and through his shirt it still left a bleeding welt.

And you are right Wesley, they are intended to let you know what getting shot could feel like, so you learn how not to. [/qb]

i prefer lasers

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Robert KM:
[qb] Why I got hit, First man in.

usually not going to make it. :-( Unless your fast. [/qb]

Next time toss a t flash or arty-sim in first, you‘ll be amazed at the amount of attention those things get paid when they come bouncing in the door...The bad guys usually forget all about what else may be in the hall... :blotto:

 

[devil39]

Originally posted by Slim:
[qb]

Originally posted by Robert KM:
[qb] Why I got hit, First man in.

usually not going to make it. :-( Unless your fast. [/qb]

Next time toss a t flash or arty-sim in first, you‘ll be amazed at the amount of attention those things get paid when they come bouncing in the door...The bad guys usually forget all about what else may be in the hall... :blotto: [/qb]

Do not throw Ground burst simulators in confined spaces. And not within 15 m of personnel.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/300-008/B-GL-381/001/TS-000/B-GL-381-001-TS-000.pdf

Quite clearly stated on pages 1-56 and 1-57.

Slim, whatever your experience, avoid counselling people to carry out training procedures that will hurt other soldiers and/or land them in front their company commander with their hat off.

T Flash would not likely be allowed either given the 5 m safety distance.

Your range safety officer will include this information in his safety brief. Listen to it.

 

[1feral1]

On my CLC back in 1988, the DS lobbed Arty Sims, and T flashes into the Soviet defensive trench system we were occupying, and I dont mean just one or two either. This along with coloured smoke, and a rather determined enemy at a pre dawn attack, made it all confusing, and I still have the scars on my hands from those Arty Sims from them blowing too close.

On the course critique the lack of pyro safety was brought up by many (who had closer calls than I did), and one 031 CPL ended up being charged.

There was even a case of a T-Flash stuffed into a toilet paper roll and chucked into a dark PL sized bunker which had troops inside, and with the cap on too, it landed on a blokes ‘bum cheek‘ and exploded. Lucky no one was hurt.

All this 18 yrs ago!


Regards,

Wes

 

[48Highlander]

Range safety briefings dealing with simulation explosives are a joke. Usualy they go like this:

Do not throw smoke or arty-sims inside buildings or vehicles. Do not throw t-flashes closer than 15 meters to a person. Do not fire blank ammunition ad a distance closer than 5 meters. Now watch the demonstration.

Ofcourse, during said demonstration, at least half of the "rules" are broken, while troops giggle and DS staff pretends not to see it.

 

[devil39]

Originally posted by 48Highlander:
[qb] Range safety briefings dealing with simulation explosives are a joke. Usualy they go like this:

Do not throw smoke or arty-sims inside buildings or vehicles. Do not throw t-flashes closer than 15 meters to a person. Do not fire blank ammunition ad a distance closer than 5 meters. Now watch the demonstration.

Ofcourse, during said demonstration, at least half of the "rules" are broken, while troops giggle and DS staff pretends not to see it. [/qb]

That should just about cover it for the brief if the target audience is trained soldiers.

Obviously the RSO should be counting on a modicum of professionalism from his staff and the target audience.

 

[The_Falcon]

Devil39

Do not throw Ground burst simulators in confined spaces. And not within 15 m of personnel.

Slim, whatever your experience, avoid counselling people to carry out training procedures that will hurt other soldiers and/or land them in front their company commander with their hat off.

T Flash would not likely be allowed either given the 5 m safety distance.

Your range safety officer will include this information in his safety brief. Listen to it.

And if it is the CSM and/or RSM conducting the training with the Op‘s O and Trn O present, what then? Sorry sir the pam says.... I don‘t think so. People have enough common sense that if they can‘t get away from and avoid t-flash and arty sims to just look away from them.

 

[devil39]

Originally posted by Hatchet Man:
[qb] Devil39

Do not throw Ground burst simulators in confined spaces. And not within 15 m of personnel.

Slim, whatever your experience, avoid counselling people to carry out training procedures that will hurt other soldiers and/or land them in front their company commander with their hat off.

T Flash would not likely be allowed either given the 5 m safety distance.

Your range safety officer will include this information in his safety brief. Listen to it.

And if it is the CSM and/or RSM conducting the training with the Op‘s O and Trn O present, what then? Sorry sir the pam says.... I don‘t think so. People have enough common sense that if they can‘t get away from and avoid t-flash and arty sims to just look away from them. [/qb]

Sure they have enough common sense. Thats how we avoid injury when an honest accident occurs. If people wish to advocate unsafe practices they will hurt soldiers. It will only be a matter of time.

That would certainly be the last training they conducted on or near one of my ranges. Obviously an incorrect demonstration. The situation should be politely corrected on the spot by the senior man present. If the senior man present is the problem, then take it through the chain of command higher.

There is no excuse for breaking sound rules and unnecessarily injuring soldiers. This is a dangerous enough occupation as it is. No point in compounding it with stupidity.

Again it comes down to professionalism. Are we all going to be harder/tougher/keener/better soldiers if we deliberately throw T flashes and Arty sims at each other? In enclosed spaces? Probably not.

 

[willy232]

Okay, this may have come up before but I didnt see it anywhere.  Just wondering who's done training with Simunition before and what you thought of its training value.
I recently did a couple days FIBUA training with the stuff... I found it a lot more fun than playing with blanks.

 

[KevinB]

Yes
and YES

I think when the second gen stuff comes on line it will be a much better system (better bal listics and use in C9 etc.  best part - more ouch  ;D        )         

 

[Zoomie]

Kevin et al,

What sort of realism does simunition provide when it comes to accuracy.  Is it just like shooting at the 100m point, ie - does the "bullet" fly true.

I left the green world before they filtered that training tool down to the Militia.

 

[willy232]

I always thought shooting blanks was sort of a waste of time.  Everyone just goes "Rambo" firing off lots of rounds.  Marksman principles go out the window.  Being sloppy and careless with blanks untimately carrys over when you go live.
Simunition requires aimed shots.  Short controlled bursts.  And you actually get to see the results of how effective (or ineffective) you were.

The only problem I encountered was fogging up in the face shield of the helmet.  But thats essential kit.  I've seen those rounds break skin, and leave some pretty good bruises.

 

[Jeff Boomhouwer]

Yes the Darth Vader mask is a little trouble some as is the limited range. It is great for CQB and really cuts down the Rambo factor. However it does nor have the range that Miles does and has not made it to the machine gun yet ( should read covering fire,) Other than that I think it's great as for breaking skin. Well keep your big ass down. Learn your drills properly or the hard way. either way may save your or more importantly my life. HEEE!!

 

[KevinB]

I have done it with and w/o the Dark Helmet - it depends upon the range SOP's - I think in Canada it is now standardized for conventional units to use it - but int he US it depends on the range.

Very shortly (next months or so) the next gen stuff is suposed to start showing up (In Kabul) it is 5.56mm (as opposed to the 9mm kits we have now) requring only a buffer and spring change - linked 5.56mm and 7.62 wil be avialble then and it will have greater range.

We have used MILES in conjunction with the sim kits and get the "best of both worlds" - albiet with the idiot helmet. 
With the EOTECH's on the C8's it is a much more viable system.