The School Funding Thread- Merged

[McG]

No, but neither should the fact that Catholics are riding on the Taxpaying coat tails of others.

I don't know what you are trying to say here.

Let's not make this out to be more than it is, and show all the facts.

Which fact am I not showing?  The fact that you get more privilage from your tax dollar (a choice in publicly funded schools)?

AS for this second class citizenship, it only happens when non-Catholics push the bounbdaries and try to enter a system, when there are others readily available.

That's right. Bad non-Catholics! What are you doing trying to get into thier special school?!

tess,
Face it.  You (your children) are treated special because of your religion.  You are given a guaranteed choice that may be denied to all others simply because of your religion. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

tess,
Face it.  You (your children) are treated special because of your religion.  You are given a guaranteed choice that may be denied to all others simply because of your religion. 

Then it is about time.

Obviously the history of our Province has been forgotten.  And because we, as Catholics Taxpayers have been able to use our tax dollars to the ultimate advantage in improving the school system, should be in no way a reason for anyone to criticize and try to claw that away from us.

So tell me then, you would agree with this statement?

Let me see if I understand the ontario premier. If I want my child to have good protestant values,  I need to pay? It is really unfortunate that he made this choice, he had the opportunity to do what a premier should do: lead.

No, the public school system allowed administrators appointed to watch over the school system to leave it in the state it is.  It has nothing to do with Politicians or Catholics.  You watched it happen as they took away Protestant values.  The prayer in the Morning with Oh Canada.  The Christmas, and Easter decoration to be abollished.  In the mission of appeasing the politically correct, you allowed that to happen.  Don’t come crying now.

In fact, as a person who was educated in the public school system, I am thoroughly appalled that it is in such a state, that people would have to crush the Catholic school system to gain improvements.

Further to these “Second Class Citizen” comments everyone is bandying about, please site me hard documented examples where this has happened, where a non Catholic was either denied or made to wait in line, and being bumped behind Catholics.  Further to that, I would like to also see the bad cases compared to the students of non-Catholic denomination that were allowed an education in that school system with out any challenges.

That is what irks me, MCG.  No matter how thinly veiled the comments are, they are insulting. 

dileas

tess

 

[glock17]

Oh Boy....

History of our Province?

Do we really need to start digging up examples of the mistakes we've made in the past? Historical policy is almost reason enough to make changes........

Unless you want to go over that whole "Women Voting" thing again... ;D

If there are problems with the public system, then don't abandon the vast majority of kids in Ontario to it, fix it, together.

Has anybody been swayed by the arguments presented on this forum?

 

[the 48th regulator]

Oh Boy....

History of our Province?

Do we really need to start digging up examples of the mistakes we've made in the past? Historical policy is almost reason enough to make changes........

Unless you want to go over that whole "Women Voting" thing again... ;D

If there are problems with the public system, then don't abandon the vast majority of kids in Ontario to it, fix it, together.

Has anybody been swayed by the arguments presented on this forum?

It was in reference to his "Protestant Values" as opposed to Catholic, which I actually found amusing.  Hence the statement....

dileas

tess

 

[glock17]

Seen. Rant dialed back.

But as an aside, I think we could probably agree that "Good Values" are not mutually exclusive to faith, or religious beliefs in general.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Seen. Rant dialed back.

But as an aside, I think we could probably agree that "Good Values" are not mutually exclusive to faith, or religious beliefs in general.

Oh I know that

dileas

tess

 

[R.O.S]

Seen. Rant dialed back.

But as an aside, I think we could probably agree that "Good Values" are not mutually exclusive to faith, or religious beliefs in general.

True. I hardly believe that people truly send their kids to catholic school because they will not gain "good values". Anyone here who has attended catholic school, as I have, will know that it is no different value system then the one recieved in the public school, as I have. Some may argue you 'can' recieve better values at public schools because of the large diversity found in the public schools. Public school builds that "don't look at the differences (religion, culture) but the similarities".

The catholic system is no one that teaches above average values or anything like that, it is a culture system. It focuses on the Hellenic (Greek/Roman system that pope Benedict said is supreme and should not be altered by anyone) and teaches a culture. Look at the catholic school board, not as a religious school board, but as an ethnic school board. Why is one ethnicity given special treatment?

 

[McG]

Obviously the history of our Province has been forgotten.  

What part has been forgotten?  That the constitutional protection was created for the largest minority in a time when there were only two predominate religious systems in Canada?

And because we, as Catholics Taxpayers have been able to use our tax dollars to the ultimate advantage in improving the school system, should be in no way a reason for anyone to criticize and try to claw that away from us.

I find it insulting that you keep referring to this as a “Catholics Taxpayers” vs everybody else issue.  It is not just your tax dollars.  It is also everybody else’s tax dollars.  I, as a non Catholic, am paying for your schools & my children have been turned away because the school was too full and Catholics had priority.  Why are my tax dollars funding your special privilege?

 

[R.O.S]

 I, as a non Catholic, am paying for your schools & my children have been turned away because the school was too full and Catholics had priority.  Why are my tax dollars funding your special privilege?

+1.

I would go futher by asking why a non-catholic should be penalized because they were born of a different religion or none at all. I thought Canada was a place of equal opportunity, no matter of your race or cultural background (yes, religion is part of culture).

 

[the 48th regulator]

True. I hardly believe that people truly send their kids to catholic school because they will not gain "good values". Anyone here who has attended catholic school, as I have, will know that it is no different value system then the one recieved in the public school, as I have. Some may argue you 'can' recieve better values at public schools because of the large diversity found in the public schools. Public school builds that "don't look at the differences (religion, culture) but the similarities".

The catholic system is no one that teaches above average values or anything like that, it is a culture system. It focuses on the Hellenic (Greek/Roman system that pope Benedict said is supreme and should not be altered by anyone) and teaches a culture. Look at the catholic school board, not as a religious school board, but as an ethnic school board. Why is one ethnicity given special treatment?

This is not a thread to discuss opinion one has with regards to Catholicism. 

Unless you have facts to state otherwise, that a) Catholics believe their school system is above all else when it comes to values and b) Religion does not fall into "Ethnicity" as the religion spans many "Ethnic" Regions of the world.

What part has been forgotten?  That the constitutional protection was created for the largest minority in a time when there were only two predominate religious systems in Canada?

Okay.

So now we are facing an election which a party has offered to legitimize schools that are not controlled by the government, ensuring that education levels are met.  Because they are religious based schools, the solution is the erase them all and dump everything into the public school system?  So once again, we are truly going to bend to small groups that want to impose "Their non religious" beliefs on everyone, claiming that we are all Sectarian?

I find it insulting that you keep referring to this as a “Catholics Taxpayers” vs everybody else issue.  It is not just your tax dollars.  It is also everybody else’s tax dollars.  I, as a non Catholic, am paying for your schools & my children have been turned away because the school was too full and Catholics had priority.  Why are my tax dollars funding your special privilege?

Oh no, I do don't refer to that being that way, I respond to the comments aimed at Catholics as we are taking away your tax dollars.  Just reminding you that we also pay taxes, which goes towards the public system as well.

If your children have been turned away, have you raised this issue with OHRC ?  I would like to know what outcome came of y our children's denial into the Catholic school you chose.

dileas

tess

midified my grammar.

 

[Shamrock]

...I, as a non Catholic, am paying for your schools & my children have been turned away because the school was too full and Catholics had priority...  

I, as a Catholic, am paying for your non-Catholic schools.

I, as a non-parent, am paying for your chilren's school.

 

[glock17]

Not sure of the exact relevance on this , but it is freakin hilarious....

www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

 

[glock17]

In all of my exuberance, I nearly missed this little gem...

http://www.venganza.org/2007/10/01/ontario.htm

 

[ex-Sup]

True. I hardly believe that people truly send their kids to catholic school because they will not gain "good values". Anyone here who has attended catholic school, as I have, will know that it is no different value system then the one recieved in the public school, as I have. Some may argue you 'can' recieve better values at public schools because of the large diversity found in the public schools. Public school builds that "don't look at the differences (religion, culture) but the similarities".

The catholic system is no one that teaches above average values or anything like that, it is a culture system. It focuses on the Hellenic (Greek/Roman system that pope Benedict said is supreme and should not be altered by anyone) and teaches a culture. Look at the catholic school board, not as a religious school board, but as an ethnic school board. Why is one ethnicity given special treatment?

As a Catholic teacher, I find these comments distressing. I too attended a Catholic school, and now I teach in one. It is the values and ideology that separate Catholic schools from public ones. As I student I always believed that there was something different about being in a religious school. In case you're wondering, I'm not some religious zealot. I consider myself a fairly liberal, mainstream Catholic. I have more to add, but I'll have to wait until tonight to reply.
As a side note, I find all these comments about schools and specifically Catholic schools amusing. Are any posters teachers? Just curious.

 

[R.O.S]

This is not a thread to discuss opinion one has with regards to Catholicism.  
Unless you have facts to state otherwise, that a) Catholics beleive their school system is above all else when it comes to values and b) Religion does not fall into "Ethnicity" as the religion spans many "Ethnic" Regions of the world.

I have no opinion to catholism, and have not put an opinion forward. I just wrote that "good values" are not better at religious schools.

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a population of human beings whose members identify with each other, either on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry or recognition by others as a distinct group, or by common cultural, linguistic, religious, or physical traits. Religion is considered ethnicity, and if a group for example muslims are killed by christians or vis versa (taking yugoslavian example) it is called ethnic cleansing... not religious cleansing.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I have no opinion to Catholicism, and have not put an opinion forward. I just wrote that "good values" are not better at religious schools.

And your facts are….

No facts, then it is  an opinion, and an unfounded one.

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a population of human beings whose members identify with each other, either on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry or recognition by others as a distinct group, or by common cultural, linguistic, religious, or physical traits. Religion is considered ethnicity, and if a group for example Muslims are killed by Christians or vis versa (taking Yugoslavian example) it is called ethnic cleansing... not religious cleansing.

As opposed to Bosnian, Serbian or Croatian??


Dileas

Tess

 

[R.O.S]

As a Catholic teacher, I find these comments distressing. I too attended a Catholic school, and now I teach in one. It is the values and ideology that separate Catholic schools from public ones. As I student I always believed that there was something different about being in a religious school.

What different values, please explain. Why should a non-catholic pay for your values, why can other values get the same credit? As a student you believe you gain something different in religious school, what is that?

The only thing I felt I had different in my experiance in the catholic school board and my friends who went through it was isolation from other cultures. I am not bashing catholics, for I would be bashing half of my family. I just find it hard to understand why others should pay for a catholic value system. If you want your kids to learn catholism then pay from your own pocket... but if no constitution change is made, then all religions should get equal treatment.

 

[eerickso]

Could anybody explain to me why the Ontario premier is not a hypocrite.

hypocrite: someone who expects a privilege while denying it to others.

 

[R.O.S]

And your facts are….
No facts, then it is  an opinion, and an unfounded one.

So are you saying catholic values are better then a jews values or muslims or whatever. Are atheists and agnostics without values? where are you going with this?

As opposed to Bosnian, Serbian or Croatian??

Well look at Serbia. Many muslims serb were killed. or look at Bosnia, christians were too. and it was called ethnic cleansing... You are going off topic and nit picking. You stated Religion is not an ethnicity, I said it is. Read any definition and you will find religion. And catholism out of most religions is one of the most structured and defined religions with variants non-existant or opposed. Pope benedict even said that catholics must follow the hellenic 'tradition' and tradition is part of one heritage and ethnicity as well.

 

[the 48th regulator]

What different values, please explain. Why should a non-catholic pay for your values, why can other values get the same credit? As a student you believe you gain something different in religious school, what is that?

The only thing I felt I had different in my experiance in the catholic school board and my friends who went through it was isolation from other cultures. I am not bashing catholics, for I would be bashing half of my family. I just find it hard to understand why others should pay for a catholic value system. If you want your kids to learn catholism then pay from your own pocket... but if no constitution change is made, then all religions should get equal treatment.

First you state that;

Why should a non-catholic pay for your values

I thought you also said;

True. I hardly believe that people truly send their kids to catholic school because they will not gain "good values". Anyone here who has attended catholic school, as I have, will know that it is no different value system then the one recieved in the public school, as I have.

If you want your kids to learn catholism then pay from your own pocket...

I do.  It's called Tax Dollars, just as equal to your Tax Dollars.

dileas

tess