The School Funding Thread- Merged

[Bandit1]

Thought I'd wade gently into the water on this one...

I'm a Conservative, always have been and always will be.  I will vote again in the upcoming provincial election because more than enough people have died to ensure that I have the right to stroll down to a school and put an "X" in a circle beside the candidate and party who best espouse all the views that I hold to be true.  As a result, I will vote Conservative in this upcoming election.

That being said, I, along with many others in this province and country, will never agree 100% with the platform that the party we love will present.  Such is the case I am confronted with on the issue of extending school funding to all religions.

A bit about my background...

I was born, baptised, confirmed and raised into a Catholic household.  I attended Mass every Sunday, becoming an altar boy as soon as I could because my faith led me to that role.  There was one point in time when I actually contemplated a life in the priesthood, but the overwhelming urge to get married and have kids prevailed.  I am now more of the Protestant sort, and still go to Church every Sunday and spend time with both my Christian friends and my secular friends, and I can say that one group isn't larger in number than the other.  I grew up having a Catholic school less than a 2 minute walk from my home, and a public school about a 3 minute walk away.

Now to the meat of the story.  From Jr. Kindergarten to Grade 6 I attended the public school.  Back in those days (late 70's to mid 80's) we were still saying the Lord's prayer after singing Oh Canada, but as far as "religious teaching" went, there was zero.  I learned about my faith by posing questions to the parish Priest, outside of school time, usually on Sunday mornings when I went to Mass.  I was grateful that my parents, specifically my mother, took the time to introduce and expose me to faith - something not all kids have access to at all.  After much personal deliberating, in grade 7/8 I went to the Catholic school, and yes, it was different.  We had Mass in school every 3 weeks, a relationship with the Church which the school was named after, and we still said the Lord's prayer every morning after singing Oh Canada.  The only difference was that once a week we had a 1 hour lesson the Bible from a Catholic perspective.  In my opinion, it didn't teach me anything that I didn't already know about my chosen faith.  After those 2 years, however, I went back to a public high school.  I graduated high school with kick *** marks, got a great education, and made a few friends along the way.  But guess what?  I never left my faith.  If anything it increased.

Now the point that I have out of all this rambling is very simple.  Religion, whether you choose to believe in a superior being or not, is a personal choice.  I didn't lose my faith by going to a public school, and my faith really wasn't enriched by going to a Catholic school.  I learned about my faith on my time, under my terms, and on my own schedule.  I took the time to not judge others on the basis of an apparant lack of faith because truly, who are we as men to know the heart of another man?  It isn't my "job" to make sure that the rest of the world become Christians, or if I were a Muslim that we all became Muslims, or Sikhs, etc.  My only "job" is to live out my faith as it lives in me.  I didn't learn that in school - I learned that by taking the time to study what exactly I believe in.  Faith is, after all, and above all, about free will.  We are not told we have to believe in a God - we are given a choice to.

As I said, I'll still vote Conservative, but much like the rest of you, I have my reservations about this specific piece of policy.

Thanks for reading...

 

[the 48th regulator]

l've never said you can't fund the Catholic school board. l said if they wanted to be publically funded, they need to stop granting certain people special treatment.

Montrassori/Hindu/other religion schools aren't public, and the parents have to pay to have their kids enrolled. Those parents still pay taxes.

Are you suggesting that you, as a Catholic, deserve better treatment than them?

We as tax payers do yes.  We pay into the system via a government, and therefore, must abide by the law of having it follow the approved system of education.  What exactly is the challenge with the current system?  The fact that one that is non catholic must que up?  That is wrong?  What is the purpose of going to a Catholic school system, if there are public ones "readilly" available?  Are you saying that one should have a choice to go to where they please, regardless of the purpose of the school?

dileas

tess

 

 

[McG]

He is saying that your tax dollar is "more equal" than his.  You can have certain access to two boards of education while he cannot.

 

[onecat]

Catholic school board, gets speical funding and as a religous school based on the roman catholic, it should either get no public funding or every school gets funding.  I personally don't think any religious school should get funding including the Catholic school board, but if one funded them all should be.  Also many people might not be aware, but in order get a position teaching for the Catholic school board, one needs a letter from priest ( a catholic priest) which might you needs to convert in order to get one.  Nothing like public discrimiation.

 

[ixium]

Yes, a -publically- funded school should be avaliable to the -public-. No ifs ands or buts.

People goto Catholic schools over public ones for different reasons:

Shorter walking distance.(from a 5 minute walk to a 15 minute walk where l am living right now)
Funded better thus being able to afford paper to hand out take home assignments
Less crowded, so the ratio of teacher:student is alot lower
Better specialized courses for dealing with mentally disabled kids(based on area, sometimes public school is better for this)
Sometimes parents think that giving their kids a religion will make them into well behaved adults but don't pratice it themselves.

l'll say it again. lf a school is publically supported through taxes, it needs to accept anyone and have the same rules and regulations as a public school.

Catholics aren't more special than any other private school and need to stop being treated that way.

 

[McG]

He is the score so far.

 

[the 48th regulator]

How so,

The fact that my tax dollars are being used, to suit my needs, as they should be.  Rather than complaining how my tax dollars are spent, see to it that your tax dollars are spent wisely inthe public school system.

Would you agree ixium, that you are preaching to the quire.  I feel my tax dollars are spent wisely in a Catholic school system, ensure your tax dollars are spent wisely in a public system.  Don't try to destroy what I am doing, just to make you feel better.

You call that democracy?  I am part of the Public, just like you.  If you feel your system is broken because of amount of schools being built, distance of travel, then it is high time you concentrate on fixing that, not aboloshing all that works to suck the money in non Catholic system.

My Tax dollars are not more equal, but by the sounds of it, it is spent more wisely.

dileas

tess

 

[McG]

How is it not more equal when you are given a choice (the choice of school board) that non-Catholics are not given?

 

[the 48th regulator]

How is it not more equal when you are given a choice (the choice of school board) that non-Catholics are not given?

What choice would you like them to have, that is being denied?

dileas

tess

 

[Yrys]

Thread hijack

The fact that my tax dollars are being used, to suit my needs, as they should be.

So the poors should have less health care and education ? And women, when having or educating children,
handicap persons, etc. less access to government services ?

Not everybody can get they tax dollars worth of services. Some need more, some need less. Some rich people
will get less sick then some poors people. We aren't in a communist system, but not in a completely capitalist
one where people get only what they can pay for...

End of my hijack

 

[the 48th regulator]

Thread hijack

So the poors should have less health care and education ? And women, when having or educating children,
handicap persons, etc. less access to government services ?

Not everybody can get they tax dollars worth of services. Some need more, some need less. Some rich people
will get less sick then some poors people. We aren't in a communist system, but not in a completely capitalist
one where people get only what they can pay for...

End of my hijack

Uhm,

So with your Hijack, you then suggest that we do what?

dileas

tess

 

[onecat]

"My Tax dollars are not more equal, but by the sounds of it, it is spent more wisely."

it might be your tax dollars but its also everyone else's tax dollars and so should not be fund a religion ie the Catholic faith.  Look at the HPV debate, the soul reason it was debated in the Catholic system was because it's against Catholic teaching... again if its get public money, then it should be all religious faiths not just one.  Or better yet fund non and use the money wasted on two system to build a world class system with out any religious base.

 

[McG]

What choice would you like them to have, that is being denied?

That one group not be given unlimited access to a government funded education system which is denied to others simply based on religion.  You get the choice of public or catholic board based on which ever seems to fit your needs where you happen to live.  If you decide the local Catholic school is fucked, you can choose the public board.  Any other religion (or atheist) is told "TFB, go to the shitty school."

Or better yet fund non and use the money wasted on two system to build a world class system with out any religious base.

+1
No more wasted money on buses to pick-up kids in front of one elementary school & drive them to another elementary school 20 blocks away.

 

[ex-Sup]

My point again is that the English public system is not permitted to be picky in any way shape or form.  There is no such thing as "no room" - the school makes room for them. 

Wanna bet? When there's a will, there's a way. Under the current system, there are no longer any boundaries between schools. Therefore any student can attend any school within their given system, even if it's across town. However there's no guarantee that they will get into that school if there's a "lack of space."
Want to get into the nearby Catholic school and not Catholic? Yes you'll probably end up on a waiting list. However, more likely than not, you'll get in. Why? Well it basically boils down to dollars and cents. The Catholic board wants the enrollment because every student means more $$$$$. It's the same for public schools; if they really want you, they make space.
Maybe this is just my perspective in my town. Thunder Bay has a declining school population as I've aleady mentioned. There is fearce competition between the boards for students. We get some of their students, they get some of ours. It has really driven the boards to substantially improve the quality of the programs they deliver, which in the end is a benefit to all students, whatever their religion.

 

[the 48th regulator]

"My Tax dollars are not more equal, but by the sounds of it, it is spent more wisely."

it might be your tax dollars but its also everyone else's tax dollars and so should not be fund a religion ie the Catholic faith.  Look at the HPV debate, the soul reason it was debated in the Catholic system was because it's against Catholic teaching... again if its get public money, then it should be all religious faiths not just one.  Or better yet fund non and use the money wasted on two system to build a world class system with out any religious base.

So let me get this straight, because I may be missing something here.

Is there a challenge with the public school system?

Is this Challenge associated with Catholic system?  And by Further funding other Religious Schools, this will also hinder the public system.

Maybe I need that answered, with examples please, before I go further as I may be missingout on a key point of everyones arguments.

dileas

tess

 

[PMedMoe]

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state school?

When I was a kid (Catholic), I went to DND schools (up until grade eight).  I had never heard of Catholic schools until I came to Ontario.  We went to Catechism Class (much like Sunday School) on our own time.

I think all schools should be equal-opportunity to all students and should not involve religion at all.

Just my

 

[the 48th regulator]

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state school?

When I was a kid (Catholic), I went to DND schools (up until grade eight).  I had never heard of Catholic schools until I came to Ontario.  We went to Catechism Class (much like Sunday School) on our own time.

I think all schools should be equal-opportunity to all students and should not involve religion at all.

Just my

Very good pooint, but obviously, it has been found that that did not work, hence the Catholic school system being introduced.

Relligion, much like culture (remember we do have a Multicultural Dept.) is part of some people lives.

As I stated before, there are finer points of Catholisicim, that must be introduced to us on a daily basis in the growing period.

Don't blame me, if it were my descision we would still be praying to mithras and carrying the Eagle as a standard....

dileas

tess

 

[the 48th regulator]

I also want to make this statement before going any further.

All the posts in this thread have been Phenomenal, to say the least.

I hope that no-one is taking things personal, and feeling insulted.  This is a debate after all.

Further more, I am posting here as a regular poster, not a Mod. So please, if you got a point to say, and it meets the guidelines, get in here folks.

This is the type of discussion needed before our election, which is just over the horizon!

dileas

tess

 

[onecat]

"is this Challenge associated with Catholic system?  And by Further funding other Religious Schools, this will also hinder the public system.

Maybe I need that answered, with examples please, before I go further as I may be missingout on a key point of everyones arguments."

I have just one point, religion is personal choice, if the gov't is going fund a relgion it should all of them or none of them. My choice is no money what so ever going to any religion school including the catholic one.  If a religion needs to brain wash you when your young then your parent's should pay for the brain washing not the taxpayer.  The current system doesn't work because it give one religion (RC) get  a special leg up by being fully funded by the taxpayer, but are fully allowed to teach all religion theory to their students.  If all religions are equal in Ontario then all the funding should be equal as well, either that is fully funded or no funding at all.

 

[the 48th regulator]

"is this Challenge associated with Catholic system?  And by Further funding other Religious Schools, this will also hinder the public system.

Maybe I need that answered, with examples please, before I go further as I may be missingout on a key point of everyones arguments."

I have just one point, religion is personal choice, if the gov't is going fund a relgion it should all of them or none of them. My choice is no money what so ever going to any religion school including the catholic one.  If a religion needs to brain wash you when your young then your parent's should pay for the brain washing not the taxpayer.  The current system doesn't work because it give one religion (RC) get  a special leg up by being fully funded by the taxpayer, but are fully allowed to teach all religion theory to their students.  If all religions are equal in Ontario then all the funding should be equal as well, either that is fully funded or no funding at all.

Bingo,

which is why you and I are in the same boat.

I totally agree with the Conservatives Proposal.

dileas

tess