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The Rugby Thread- Merged Over The Years

Agreed.....but still, I'm not a 7s guy.

I mean, sure.....Japan's final try against Russia was entertaining, but when you have only one row in a scrum......
 
Although I generally prefer rugby union over rugby league one of the best live sporting events I've ever attended was the Dubai 7's. We certainly made the most of the bucket of 10 Heinekens for 50 bucks deal they had going!
 
X_para76 said:
Although I generally prefer rugby union over rugby league one of the best live sporting events I've ever attended was the Dubai 7's. We certainly made the most of the bucket of 10 Heinekens for 50 bucks deal they had going!

When I was coaching U12 and U14, we used to have problems with a certain club in EORU (lots of limestone?).  Instead of playing proper Rugby Union 7s where possession counted and rucks were allowed, they used to insist on us playing no ruck allowed and 6 downs per field.  My oldest very quickly assessed the situation and asked "So this game is Rugby League for children?"
 
Canada v Australia at midnight mountain time tonight. 

Good news is ....this morning my tabby cat woke up and kicked the living sh*t out of a stuffed Koala.....for 14 minutes she destroyed the Koala.

I think that the Canadian Women are going to win this one.....
 
Canadian Men's Sevens team has just made history, beating Scotland 10-7 at the Glasgow Sevens, to advance to our first ever Sevens World Series tournament final!

Final game for 1st and 2nd place is Canada v New Zealand at 1150 h Mountain time streaming live at http://www.irbsevens.com/liveblog/blogid=1879.html

Canada has come very close this year to beating NZ....Go Canada!
 
Apparently we lost to the Kiwi's but a solid showing by team Canada none the less. No shame coming second place in the Glasgow 7's.
 
So I just got back from watching Canada get hammered by the USA 41-23 in what was another dour performance by our boys in red. 

I know we've got a couple of rugby fans on this forum so I'd like to see if anyone is interested in a discussion about the upcoming Rugby World Cup, which is third biggest sporting spectacle in the world after FIFA World Cup and the Olympics.  It kicks off September 18th.

The intent of this thread will be to talk about Canadian chances and also other teams in the tournament.  I've also created a fantasy pool for the tournament if anyone is interested in playing. PM me and I'll send you details if your interested in playing fantasy rugby.

 
RocketRichard said:
I can't believe the Eagles almost doubled us. Sigh...

Well, the writing has been on the wall for awhile.  People have called the USA the sleeping giant of Rugby for ages now and I think they are finally starting to awaken.  They are going to overtake us simply by the sheer number of players they are going to have at their disposal.  We aren't the only ones that have taken notice of this, a lot of the traditional rugby nations (especially the smaller celtic ones) are fearing what American power and money is going to do to their chances of remaining competitive.

The problem with our team right now is complicated, on one hand we have more players playing professionally then we ever have.  We also have numerous players that are top flight players in some of the European professional leagues.  On the other, while we have some flashy players, our players have been found wanting in certain facets of the game, most notably, the front row.

I've been watching and playing rugby since 2003 and have seen a big shift in the way Canadians play rugby.  From my perspective, the coaching has vastly improved in this country and the sport has become far more competitive with fitness and skills improving in club rugby.  At the same time, I see a problem in that our players are over-coached which is probably being influenced by the popularity of Canadian and American Football in this country.  We undervalue certain parts of the game, particularly crafty forward play which we see as boring, to our own detriment.

For one thing, we have probably the worst scrum in the top 20 nations in World Rugby.  This isn't just a problem with the national team, this goes all the way through Canadian Rugby because the scrum just isn't seen as important to us.  The Canadian game is also being influenced by 7's Rugby, which encourages running rugby and lots of flair, so we are seeing lots of guys favoured for their speed and athleticism.  Unfortunately, the skills of 7's don't necessarily transfer to the 15's game where skills such as Scrums, Lineouts and Mauls are far more important and maintaining possession is just as important as being fast.

Right now are national team is losing games because they can't hold on to the ball.  They are 7-16 in the last three years and have basically become one trick pony's.  Everyone who plays us knows what the game plan is, we are going to spread it wide and get it to our wingers who are very fast and very good.  Unfortunately, this sort of game plan, cannot be executed properly if they don't have a strong platform to build of off.  Canada has the worst scrummaging in the Top 20 and also one of the worst lineouts and our work at the breakdown is atrocious which is ironic because Canadian Rugby used to be known for it's hard hitting in your face style, not anymore.

We have lost to both Romania and Georgia, who we used to be better than, twice each in the past two years.  Both times the victories were down to the Romanian and Georgian forwards physically dominating us.  Our weakness in the forwards was exposed last November against Georgia when they started a fight and rattled us and then manhandled us for the rest of the game.  Romania did the same thing to us with all their points last game against us coming from penalties awarded from scrummaging.  They know we have no answer for it.

The match against Tonga in June was lost due to poor scrummaging as was our match against Japan.  We had Italy's number a few years ago but they simply used their scrum and rolling maul to massacre us in the second half of that match emerging victors 25-16. 

If Canada can't sort its forwards out than we are in for a terrible time at the World Cup as we have drawn three Latin teams (France, Italy and Romania) all of whom are known for good scrummaging and strong forward play.  I won't even mention Ireland because they are ranked No 3 in the World and are excellent everywhere.  They are going to absolutely smash us, as are the French probably but a few years ago I would have favoured our chances against Italy and Romania.  With the way the forwards have played lately, I am not optimistic.

Here is a video of the Romanian scrum in their recent Nations Cup tournament against Spain, Namibia and Argentina, a tournament which they won and their scrum was utterly dominant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDkJv6NR5Ao
 
RoyalDrew said:
Well, the writing has been on the wall for awhile.  People have called the USA the sleeping giant of Rugby for ages now and I think they are finally starting to awaken.  They are going to overtake us simply by the sheer number of players they are going to have at their disposal.  We aren't the only ones that have taken notice of this, a lot of the traditional rugby nations (especially the smaller celtic ones) are fearing what American power and money is going to do to their chances of remaining competitive.

The problem with our team right now is complicated, on one hand we have more players playing professionally then we ever have.  We also have numerous players that are top flight players in some of the European professional leagues.  On the other, while we have some flashy players, our players have been found wanting in certain facets of the game, most notably, the front row.

I've been watching and playing rugby since 2003 and have seen a big shift in the way Canadians play rugby.  From my perspective, the coaching has vastly improved in this country and the sport has become far more competitive with fitness and skills improving in club rugby.  At the same time, I see a problem in that our players are over-coached which is probably being influenced by the popularity of Canadian and American Football in this country.  We undervalue certain parts of the game, particularly crafty forward play which we see as boring, to our own detriment.

For one thing, we have probably the worst scrum in the top 20 nations in World Rugby.  This isn't just a problem with the national team, this goes all the way through Canadian Rugby because the scrum just isn't seen as important to us.  The Canadian game is also being influenced by 7's Rugby, which encourages running rugby and lots of flair, so we are seeing lots of guys favoured for their speed and athleticism.  Unfortunately, the skills of 7's don't necessarily transfer to the 15's game where skills such as Scrums, Lineouts and Mauls are far more important and maintaining possession is just as important as being fast.

Right now are national team is losing games because they can't hold on to the ball.  They are 7-16 in the last three years and have basically become one trick pony's.  Everyone who plays us knows what the game plan is, we are going to spread it wide and get it to our wingers who are very fast and very good.  Unfortunately, this sort of game plan, cannot be executed properly if they don't have a strong platform to build of off.  Canada has the worst scrummaging in the Top 20 and also one of the worst lineouts and our work at the breakdown is atrocious which is ironic because Canadian Rugby used to be known for it's hard hitting in your face style, not anymore.

We have lost to both Romania and Georgia, who we used to be better than, twice each in the past two years.  Both times the victories were down to the Romanian and Georgian forwards physically dominating us.  Our weakness in the forwards was exposed last November against Georgia when they started a fight and rattled us and then manhandled us for the rest of the game.  Romania did the same thing to us with all their points last game against us coming from penalties awarded from scrummaging.  They know we have no answer for it.

The match against Tonga in June was lost due to poor scrummaging as was our match against Japan.  We had Italy's number a few years ago but they simply used their scrum and rolling maul to massacre us in the second half of that match emerging victors 25-16. 

If Canada can't sort its forwards out than we are in for a terrible time at the World Cup as we have drawn three Latin teams (France, Italy and Romania) all of whom are known for good scrummaging and strong forward play.  I won't even mention Ireland because they are ranked No 3 in the World and are excellent everywhere.  They are going to absolutely smash us, as are the French probably but a few years ago I would have favoured our chances against Italy and Romania.  With the way the forwards have played lately, I am not optimistic.

Here are a couple of videos of the Romanian scrum in their recent Nations Cup tournament against Spain, Namibia and Argentina, a tournament which they won and their scrum was utterly dominant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDkJv6NR5Ao


As to smaller nations fearing American rugby, I'm sure New Zealand (4.5 million), Australia (23.5 million), or South Africa (53 million), are quaking in their boots.
 
The rise of the pro game has widened the gap between T1 and 2 to a point where having tier 1 and 2 RWC is a real possibility.  Seriously this is being discussed as outside the top 8 nations no one really stands a chance.

As well the IRB has dumped oodles of $$$ into the USAs program in an attempt to grow the sport and it's working.  One sad fact of that I'd that Canadian Rugby will continue to spiral down.  The USA is a money generating market, we are not, and $$$ pretty much governs this sport now.  Oh how I miss the amateur days.

I wouldn't be surprise if we don't make the next RWC.

RoyalDrew i agree with you in you points on our pack.  We used to be a hard tough side countries didn't want to play.  Unfortunately those days have passed. 

 
Kat Stevens said:
As to smaller nations fearing American rugby, I'm sure New Zealand (4.5 million), Australia (23.5 million), or South Africa (53 million), are quaking in their boots.
I wasn't talking about those three, I was talking about the Celtic Nations of Scotland, Wales and Ireland to a lesser extent.  All of whom have a lot to lose if some countries begin overtaking them in rugby.  The Americans are already close to being on par with Scotland and aren't far off Wales.  These countries are heavily dependent on money from Test matches and if bigger commercial opportunities start to present themselves there is a worry that they could lose their status at the top of the sport. 

Well actually, a lot of them are worried about American money coming into the game.  In all three countries, the professional game is run by the unions which tightly control the professional game in order to keep the national team strong.  They all have rules in place that prevent players from playing for the national team unless they reside and play in the country.  This is to ensure their best players are always available to play.

This system though is starting to show signs of weakness because unlike the Big Three southern hemisphere teams, English and French rugby are both based around a club system and some of the clubs are very powerful and have lots of money which means they are able to recruit the best players from around the world.  The French clubs are particularly rich with a number of the big teams (Stade Francais, RC Toulon, Racing Metro, Clermont Auvergne, Montpellier) having rich benefactors with big pockets.  What is happening is the clubs are able to outspend the unions which is beginning to weaken the development systems of the big three rugby unions in the Southern Hemisphere.  Long term, their is a worry that the club game will weaken New Zealand, Australian and South African Rugby. 





 
The yanks will push the Scots but the Scots game has pretty much imploded.  The Welsh not yet and certainly not the Irish or the Southern Hemisphere sides. 

In time they, the USA, will if the can grow rugby challenge the worlds best.  The trouble is I just don't see rugby getting much bigger in the 'ol USofA. 
 
The American interest in Rugby will eventually peter out. The likelihood of a successful professional league thriving is quite remote, look at soccers weak following considering forty years of trying.  Rugby is too damn foreign, and the big three, MLB, NBA, and NFL would strangle any infant league in the womb.
 
Halifax Tar said:
The rise of the pro game has widened the gap between T1 and 2 to a point where having tier 1 and 2 RWC is a real possibility.  Seriously this is being discussed as outside the top 8 nations no one really stands a chance.

As well the IRB has dumped oodles of $$$ into the USAs program in an attempt to grow the sport and it's working.  One sad fact of that I'd that Canadian Rugby will continue to spiral down.  The USA is a money generating market, we are not, and $$$ pretty much governs this sport now.  Oh how I miss the armature days.

I wouldn't be surprise if we don't make the next RWC.

RoyalDrew i agree with you in you points on our pack.  We used to be a hard tough side countries didn't want to play.  Unfortunately those days have passed. 

Excellent post Halifax Tar.  The two big up and comers in World Rugby are Japan and the USA.  You're right that the IRB is dumping into countries with commercial opportunities.  Argentina is another one they are heavily funding and Argentina went from pretty much being on par with us in the 80's and 90's to being one of the heavyweights of World Rugby.  They just recently beat South Africa. 

I think we will profit from American interest in the sport but the days of us beating the USA 56-7 (Ala 2005 in St John's) are over. 

There is also the fact that Rugby in Canada is still incredibly amateur and stovepiped.  We have no national club championship and we don't even have one season in the country as BC refuses to play when anyone else does.  As a result, our club game has stagnated.  The Americans have a national club championship with multiple divisions as do the Argentinians.  America now also has the 4th largest player base in the world behind only England, France and South Africa.  Americans will be a powerhouse in rugby soon, it's only a matter of time.

If the game remains amateur here, we will fall further and further down the pack.  Even Romania, Georgia and Russia now have fully professional leagues.  Romania has a six team professional league with a bunch of Fijians, Samoans and Tongans playing in it, they even have some Kiwis and a former All Black.  Next season RC Timisoara (Romanian Champions) will be given a place in the European Challenge Cup (Rugby's equivalent of the UEFA Cup) and they have created a 3rd Cup Competition that will include Italian, Romanian, German, Portuguese, Russian and Georgian clubs in order to earn promotion to the European Knockout tournaments. 

Kat Stevens said:
The American interest in Rugby will eventually peter out. The likelihood of a successful professional league thriving is quite remote, look at soccers weak following considering forty years of trying.  Rugby is too damn foreign, and the big three, MLB, NBA, and NFL would strangle any infant league in the womb.

I'm not so certain about this.  Even if Rugby remains a marginal sport in the US, it will still have enough players to threaten other countries and it's not like Rugby has that many players in other countries either.  Soccer has overtaken rugby in NZ and South Africa and it's #4 if not the #5 sport in Australia after Aussie Rules, Soccer, League and Cricket.
 
So Romania played Edinburgh this weekend with a mostly B-Side made up of fringe players for their final World Cup squad.  Although they ended up losing the match, their scrum utterly smashed Edinburgh's, winning 7 scrums against the head, one of which set up a nifty try.

With their full strength team they are going to cause us numerous problems in this area.  They have one of the best scrums in the world and if we start knocking on balls or conceding stupid penalties in our own 22 like we did against the Americans, they will make us pay dearly.  Their primary kicker, Florin Vlaicu also has a deadly boot.

Here is a video of it:

http://youtu.be/SRKqQQFr5rs


 
Another uninspiring match from the Canadians vs Fiji.  Horrible tackling set the stage for the performance but weak passing and running played a large part.  Man the way we are play Romania is going to blow us out.
 
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