NOOOOOOOO!!!
Mixed fleet has too many inefficiencies, more people, more parts, more simulators, more infrastructure, etc, etc. no offence, but it’s a terrible idea.
Last edited:
The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
- Thread starter WingsofFury
- Start date
Mixed fleet has too many inefficiencies, more people, more parts, more simulators, more infrastructure, etc, etc. no offence, but it’s a terrible idea.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 32,236
- Points
- 1,160
Prairie canuck
Member
- Reaction score
- 172
- Points
- 780
No offence taken. (Although a few less O's would have still got the point across, Ha!)
Most other Air forces have mixed fleets so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary, although many seem to be changing over to the F35 exclusively. I mean the F35 parts are coming from several countries so the availability is still dependent on those "supply lines". I'm sure SAAB outsources its fair share of parts but isn't part of the deal to manufacture those airframes in Canada? Are their roles too similar?
Would a mixed fleet be more palatable if it was an F35 and F15 mix?
Sorry for all the questions but there's not too many other sites (none that i've found) where answers to these can be had.
- Reaction score
- 18,803
- Points
- 1,280
No, regardless of mix. It's not a problem of availability but of training and supply on our end.
More fleets means more types of parts that we have to store. Also, more fleets means different types of qualifications needed for the pilots, technicians, etc.
We aren't a big enough force to warrant multiple types of fighters. The Australians sort of got away with it because the Super Hornet was bought to replace their F-111 strike aircraft.
- Reaction score
- 21,958
- Points
- 1,260
If you only have 1 Fighter it needs to be the everything.
I think the F-15EX is the better option, except it wasn’t a submission.
Admittedly by the time the GoC makes a decision, the F/A XX 6th Gen will probably be in service.
I think the F-15EX is the better option, except it wasn’t a submission.
Admittedly by the time the GoC makes a decision, the F/A XX 6th Gen will probably be in service.
Prairie canuck
Member
- Reaction score
- 172
- Points
- 780
Thanks, that clears it up a quite a bit. It's still those maintenance costs per hour that kinda leave an odor.... Oh well, just my opinion.
Prairie canuck
Member
- Reaction score
- 172
- Points
- 780
I think even if GoC awards the contract today we're so far back in the que it will take forever. However a side benefit is everyone else gets to work out the bugs.
- Reaction score
- 18,803
- Points
- 1,280
Are the costs for the same model that Canada is looking to get (A), the STOVL (B), or carrier-based (C) model?
Also, the Gripen E isn't in operation yet, so any maint or other costs are just estimates at this point.
Prairie canuck
Member
- Reaction score
- 172
- Points
- 780
There are numerous sites and they all have different numbers but it's a pretty consistent opinion that SAAB's operating costs are half or less than the F35's. I think the older model Gripen's operating costs being so low have influenced the E's estimates.
Quirky
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 3,650
- Points
- 1,260
Estimates based off opinions. Yup.
One of the many examples where our ineptness in capital projects has somehow worked out in our favour.
Takes forever to choose which plane to purchase, despite there only being 3 choices when it boils down to it? When all of our allies have chosen it after being shown the classified stuff?
When if we were even marginally ambitious we would have taken advantage of Turkey getting the boot and hockey sticked some of those contracts our way, after placing an order.
But despite the GoC taking this long to make a decision on an ‘urgent file’ for them, and us dithering… it somehow worked out for us, yet again.
Other countries brunt the costs of fixing deficiencies & shaking it out, and we wait until all of that is done before we place our order.
Same goes for UAV’s. We don’t have a combat mission on the go, do we really need those things? Nah. And now an entirely new generation of them are on the horizon. Good thing we waited.
Canada appearing quite wise when in reality the GoC can’t seem to stop making more red tape for itself.
The scary part of the genius behind it is that it isn’t even intentional
MTShaw
Full Member
- Reaction score
- 197
- Points
- 580
Isn’t there a difference between being declared the preferred bidder and the contract being signed. This was how it was done with the CSC.
- Reaction score
- 21,958
- Points
- 1,260
Even if Canada bought F-35 today you are now years late in the queue. LocMart can only build so many at this point.
With several countries inking a contract and a few unexpected ones jumping in, the RCAF won’t get anything soon.
Sarcasm I hope.
Canada looks like it’s picking their nose on the short bus.
- Reaction score
- 18,803
- Points
- 1,280
They're not just used for combat missions.
And no, not a good thing we waited. We had trained operational crews in Afghanistan. Now...not so much.
- Reaction score
- 1,674
- Points
- 1,060
I agree to a point but were stretching the timetable now. Especially when we cant get an answer on what step in the process we are in or what the next stage is. I dont doubt that the gripen could cost half what the F35 does to keep operational but that still doesnt make it the right choice for us
Feds mum on next step in fighter jet competition
Federal procurement officials won't say when Canada will take the next step in the years-long process of selecting a new fighter jet.
I had hoped my sarcasm would shine through here lads.
Ofcourse it isn’t a good thing we waited. My sarcasm was implying that it’s a good thing we waited, so we could spend our money on even better ones that are coming online.
It isn’t a good thing we had a pipeline for UAV crews & developed that capability, and then let it degrade afterwards.
My sarcasm was trying to convey that Canada is actually quite intentionally playing the long game, but just secretly not admitting it.
By dithering on a fighter replacement, we’ve allowed our allies (the US) to work out software fixes, identify problem with stealth coating, and find/fix other bugs before we purchased any.
And by denying ourselves a UAV capability (in regards to MALE type aircraft) we’ve secretly set ourselves up to use that money towards the next generation, instead.
Pure sarcasm. Although - and this isn’t a point of pride by any means - our dithering in things does sometimes work in our favour in the oddest ways. Pure luck, mind you.
Prairie canuck
Member
- Reaction score
- 172
- Points
- 780
Japan is looking for a partner(s) to help it develop it's own Gen6 fighter. Ground floor opportunity.
Why Japan Is Building Its Own Sixth Generation Stealth Fighter
Can Tokyo manage the high costs of such advanced technology?
nationalinterest.org
Kind of like the F-35 was….Japan is looking for a partner(s) to help it develop it's own Gen6 fighter. Ground floor opportunity.
Why Japan Is Building Its Own Sixth Generation Stealth Fighter
Can Tokyo manage the high costs of such advanced technology?
(No sarcasm this time)
- Reaction score
- 21,958
- Points
- 1,260
The difference was F-35 is a Gen 5, built by a company (and country) that had already built Gen 5 aircraft
F/A XX NGASF is a 6 Gen we are working on now based on what we learned from F-22 etc.
Japan is trying to build a Gen 6 with no Gen 4 or 5 base, realistically they will probably end up with a Gen 5.1 AC
It’s kind of like Sweden saying they are building thr Grippen-E Gen 5 fighter - but really building a Gen 4.5 ish
