The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[YZT580]

How do we Canadianize something already operating in Alaska. Do we convert the instruments to metric? Making things to fit our snowflake requirements just hampers overall procurement. We aren’t special. We aren’t unique.

BILINGUAL

 

[CBH99]

Swiss pass on the Gripen E just shows how much of an outdated, irrelevant POS it really is.

I wouldn’t go THAT far

Can it’s tech match the F-35? No. Even in its most advanced form, it isn’t on the same level as the F-35. But nor is it intended to be.

It has the speed, weapons, radar, and ‘built in capabilities’ to be a pretty solid MiG killer, and overall deterrent fighter. It wasn’t designed to have the range, payload, or advanced EW stuff on the F-35 because it wasn’t intended for the same missions.

Outdated compared to other options? Perhaps. Or I would perhaps suggest ‘great capabilities, just not enough of them to compete.’ I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a POS tho.

 

[MilEME09]

I wouldn’t go THAT far

Can it’s tech match the F-35? No. Even in its most advanced form, it isn’t on the same level as the F-35. But nor is it intended to be.

It has the speed, weapons, radar, and ‘built in capabilities’ to be a pretty solid MiG killer, and overall deterrent fighter. It wasn’t designed to have the range, payload, or advanced EW stuff on the F-35 because it wasn’t intended for the same missions.

Outdated compared to other options? Perhaps. Or I would perhaps suggest ‘great capabilities, just not enough of them to compete.’ I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a POS tho.

I agree, it was designed with a different strategic mind set of defensive air superiority not offensive operations against a near peer in a first strike scenario.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No, by military professionals.

Where are those skillsets held currently inside the CAF?

 

[Good2Golf]

Where are those skillsets held currently inside the CAF?

Years ago (decades actually) WSSU then 4 SES at Cold Lake and some folks at DAEPM(FT) back when the Hornets Nest was still in Bldg 155 at CFB Rockcliffe. Not sure if there’s anyone at all
today with anywhere close to the expertise required to conduct recursion testing on OEM s/w?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ack...with limited exposure to the SES/OLA etc worlds...it seems to me that expertise and capability is held...soley outside the CAF.

And...I'd love to see that situation reversed, but I won't even consider holding my breath on that one.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Years ago (decades actually) WSSU then 4 SES at Cold Lake and some folks at DAEPM(FT) back when the Hornets Nest was still in Bldg 155 at CFB Rockcliffe. Not sure if there’s anyone at all
today with anywhere close to the expertise required to conduct recursion testing on OEM s/w?

AETE still very much does regression testing on every single software build.

 

[Good2Golf]

OFP only or FCS too? (Unless you can’t say)

 

[SupersonicMax]

OFP only or FCS too? (Unless you can’t say)

AETE could do both if it had too but we haven’t had FCC updates in almost two decades (and most of the work is done by VX-23 at Pax River - I doubt we’d have much to do beyond double checking the interactions between the new FCC build and Canadian-unique softwares). The FCC software isn’t written in Canada. AETE tests pretty much every OFP builds that are unique to Canada, including those built by the US specifically for us.

 

[Quirky]

I wouldn’t go THAT far
Outdated compared to other options? Perhaps. Or I would perhaps suggest ‘great capabilities, just not enough of them to compete.’ I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a POS tho.

If your intent is to kill your own fighter pilots in a modern theatre with a capable enemy, the Gripen is a fantastic choice. We do have a big backlog in Moose Jaw….

 

[CBH99]

If your intent is to kill your own fighter pilots in a modern theatre with a capable enemy, the Gripen is a fantastic choice. We do have a big backlog in Moose Jaw….

In a peer fight against China or Russia? Yes, agreed. Or any high-intensity expeditionary operations against an enemy with decent AD systems.

As an affordable platform which has enough modern systems to give them some teeth, which are only needed to patrol their own national borders? I can very much see the appeal.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I don't see the logic in that argument, though. "Patrol their own national borders" suggests there is no expectation those borders will ever be challenged or penetrated.

If they aren't...wow, did we ever mess up with the whole "NORAD" thing.

 

[Quirky]

In a peer fight against China or Russia? Yes, agreed. Or any high-intensity expeditionary operations against an enemy with decent AD systems.

As an affordable platform which has enough modern systems to give them some teeth, which are only needed to patrol their own national borders? I can very much see the appeal.

We talking about Canada here, unless I’m in the wrong thread again.

 

[CBH99]

We talking about Canada here, unless I’m in the wrong thread again.

You said it was an outdated POS. I'm saying it isn't, just isn't suitable for our needs.

 

[Quirky]

You said it was an outdated POS. I'm saying it isn't, just isn't suitable for our needs.

International orders speak for themselves and there is nothing significant in terms of quantity to suggest the Gripen E is a serious, modern contender.

 

[PuckChaser]

The argument that we don't "need" stealth is like saying we can buy body armor that only protects against 5.56mm because we don't need expensive protection against 7.62mm AP rounds. The widows you'll be creating probably would disagree about that need for the best possible protection when there's no performance trade off.

 

[CBH99]

The argument that we don't "need" stealth is like saying we can buy body armor that only protects against 5.56mm because we don't need expensive protection against 7.62mm AP rounds. The widows you'll be creating probably would disagree about that need for the best possible protection when there's no performance trade off.

Agreed. Just wondering which post this is a reply to?

 

[PuckChaser]

Anyone thinking the Gripen or SH is a better value...

 

[calculus]

Wonder how this will influence the project team?

Navy Questions Future Viability of Super Hornets; Recommends Against New Buy​

Navy Questions Future Viability of Super Hornets; Recommends Against New Buy - USNI News

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. — If Congress mandates the Navy keep buying the current F/A-18E/F Super Hornets, the airframes will be in the fleet into the 2050s. But by then, the fourth-generation fighters likely couldn’t stand up to future threats, a service official said Tuesday. Rear Adm. Andrew...

news.usni.org

 

[YZT580]

Wonder how this will influence the project team?

Navy Questions Future Viability of Super Hornets; Recommends Against New Buy​

Navy Questions Future Viability of Super Hornets; Recommends Against New Buy - USNI News

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. — If Congress mandates the Navy keep buying the current F/A-18E/F Super Hornets, the airframes will be in the fleet into the 2050s. But by then, the fourth-generation fighters likely couldn’t stand up to future threats, a service official said Tuesday. Rear Adm. Andrew...

news.usni.org

But just once, wouldn't you love it if parliament ordered new kit or added to the order that you already had without having to beg or give away something else?