The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[The Bread Guy]

Public Services and Procurement Canada:  Industry says they need a weeeeeee bit more time ...

The Government of Canada is committed to providing members of the Royal Canadian Air Force with the fighter aircraft they need to do their jobs, and ensuring the best possible value for Canadians.

At the request of industry, the March 30 deadline for preliminary proposals for the Future Fighter Capability Project has been extended. Eligible suppliers now have until June 30, 2020 to complete and submit their proposals.

This extension supports our commitment to conduct an open, fair, and transparent competition. Procurements of this magnitude are complex, and submission of a good proposal is important for suppliers and for Canada. This extension allows eligible suppliers to address recent feedback on their security offers, ensuring that Canada receives competitive proposals that meet its technical, cost and economic benefits requirements.

Quotes

“The government set out an aggressive timeline to implement this very complex, high-value procurement, and while we understand the importance of this procurement for our women and men in uniform, our focus is on moving the process forward as quickly as we can, while ensuring that all bidders have the time they need to put forward their best proposal.”

The Honourable Anita Anand
Minister of Public Services and Procurement

“Our government is making the necessary decisions to get the best aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force and Canada. This extension will allow the eligible suppliers to make their best possible offer to ensure that we are able to provide the equipment our members need at a fair cost to Canadians.”

The Honourable Harjit S. Sajjan
Minister of National Defence

“Canada’s Industrial Technological Benefits policy is expected to generate high-value jobs and economic growth for Canadian aerospace and defence businesses for decades. Ensuring that all suppliers have the opportunity to put their best bid forward is important to ensure strong economic benefits are secured for Canadians.”

The Honourable Navdeep Bains
Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry

Quick facts

This is the most significant investment in the Royal Canadian Air Force in more than 30 years and is essential for protecting the safety and security of Canadians and meeting international obligations.

Officials conducted extensive engagement with Canadian aerospace and defence industries to ensure that they are well positioned to participate in the procurement.

Canada is using a phased-bid compliance process, which is an additional measure to ensure that bidders will have an opportunity to address non-compliance in their proposals related to mandatory criteria. Following evaluation of preliminary proposals, a dialogue phase may be conducted with one or more compliant bidders to reduce the risk that a proposal is eliminated due to an error or omission.

Proposals will be rigorously assessed on elements of capability (60%), cost (20%) and economic benefits (20%).

All proposals will be evaluated according to the same evaluation criteria.

Canada’s Industrial and Technological Benefits Policy, including a Value Proposition applies to this procurement. This is expected to generate high-value jobs and economic growth for Canadian aerospace and defence businesses for decades ...

 

[OldSolduer]

The delays will ensure that the RCAF will get a 5th gen fighter when the 7th gen comes on line in 2040.

:sarcasm:

 

[The Bread Guy]

The delays will ensure that the RCAF will get a 5th gen fighter when the 7th gen comes on line in 2040.

:sarcasm:

You starry-eyed optimist, you ...

 

[Iron 1]

You starry-eyed optimist, you ...

Sad but true...
If I was a millennial I'd embed the standard Metallica video here.
But I'm not.
So I won't.
But it's sad...and it's true.

And this makes me sad (not to mention frustrated).
How can this keep on being a political football, perpetually @ third and long?

This is probably SAAB admitting that their "tinker-toy" can't play with the big boys, yet rather than doing the proper thing they prefer to ask for a 3 month extension.
Just so they can come back in 3 months and admit that their tinker toy can't play with the big boys?
Seems rather ridiculous...
It's a great airplane for third world nations and others in the EU on a budget.
It's a waste of time even considering it for our needs.
Maybe I'm wrong here?
From all I've read?
I don't think so.
I send a shitload of money to Ottawa every year and I am not impressed.
Yes.
I am an Albertan.

 

[dimsum]

Saab Forms Industry Team For Canada Fighter Bid

Four companies have joined the Saab Gripen E’s proposal for the C$15-20 billion Future Fighter Capability contract in Canada, which remains in a recently extended competitive phase.

Saab’s industrial team, which includes IMP Aerospace & Defense, CAE, Peraton Canada and GE Aviation, is the last of the three remaining bidders for the contracts to supply 88 fighters to replace the Royal Canadian Air Force’s CF-188 fleet, which is the local designation for the Boeing F/A-18A/B.

“We have assembled a dynamic roster of innovative leaders within Canada’s aerospace industry, across multiple regions to offer the best solution for Canada’s future fighter,” said Jonas Hjelm, senior vice president and head of Saab Aeronautics.

Saab is competing against the Lockheed Martin F-35A and Boeing F/A-18E/F for the Canadian order.

Industrial benefits represent 20% of the formula used by Public Works and Procurement Canada to select the contract winner. Cost is assigned the same value in the evaluation as industrial benefits, with overall capability forming the remaining 60% of the weighted criteria.

Canadian officials relaxed a previous requirement for contractors to reserve a share of the aircraft sustainment program for Canadian companies. The F-35’s international partnership disallows guaranteed industrial participation, so the concession allowed Lockheed to remain in the competition, but drove the Eurofighter Typhoon team to withdraw from the bidding process last August. Dassault previously withdrew the Rafale from the competition in November 2018.

The remaining three participants were due to submit preliminary proposals by March 31. But Canadian procurement officials on Feb. 24 said the deadline would be extended until June 30.

‘This extension will allow eligible suppliers to submit their best possible offer,” said Harjit Sajjan, Canada’s Minister of National Defense.

https://aviationweek.com/shows-events/air-warfare-symposium/saab-forms-industry-team-canada-fighter-bid

 

[Czech_pivo]

Saab Forms Industry Team For Canada Fighter Bid

https://aviationweek.com/shows-events/air-warfare-symposium/saab-forms-industry-team-canada-fighter-bid

How ironic that the new extension falls at the exact same time as the Conservative leadership convention? How wonderful it will be for the Libs to roll out the news on the fighter replacement at the time the news will be reporting on the leadership race.
Unreal how much politics is wrapped into the whole process - the renewal, the CSC, the icebreakers, the LAV’s - it’s absolute crap.

 

[OldSolduer]

Saab Forms Industry Team For Canada Fighter Bid

https://aviationweek.com/shows-events/air-warfare-symposium/saab-forms-industry-team-canada-fighter-bid

I'm no genius but it seems its "any plane but the F-35".

 

[PuckChaser]

I'm no genius but it seems its "any plane but the F-35".

If Lockheed loses with a Liberal government in power, they will bury the government in litigation for a rigged process against them. Especially since every other country that's ran a competition has had the F-35 beat out the SH and Gripen numerous times.

 

[Rifleman62]

Which will tie up the procurement for some years, which is probably what the Liberals would like. The liberals do what they want, and screw everyone else except their supporters.

 

[Quirky]

I'm no genius but it seems its "any plane but the F-35".

If Saab wins I can see a huge issue with future pilots going the fighter jet route in Moose Jaw. Nevermind the Cold Lake issues already discussed ad nausim, flying the SAAB won't sweeten the deal.

 

[YZT580]

For just plain flying, the SAAB is a sweetheart.  There won't be a problem from the pure flying viewpoint. 

 

[Good2Golf]

For just plain flying, the SAAB is a sweetheart.  There won't be a problem from the pure flying viewpoint.

Personal experience?

 

[Quirky]

For just plain flying, the SAAB is a sweetheart.  There won't be a problem from the pure flying viewpoint.

Buying fighters purely for airshows and scenic tours through the mountains. There are cheaper options for that...

 

[Good2Golf]

Buying fighters purely for airshows and scenic tours through the mountains. There are cheaper options for that...

:nod:

Subcontract ‘Top Aces’

 

[YZT580]

Wasn't talking about usefulness was talking about the pure joy of flying.  Every pilot I have ever met considers his aircraft the absolute best.  Cold Lake won't matter if they an actually get to fly an aircraft that still has that new car smell and that isn't older than he is.  Whether it is the best for the job or not, if the SAAB is the one picked 3 months after training commences there will be a total buy in by the flight crews.  This is not saying that the SAAB is the one to buy, that is just an observation after years of working with pilots.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Wasn't talking about usefulness was talking about the pure joy of flying.  Every pilot I have ever met considers his aircraft the absolute best.  Cold Lake won't matter if they an actually get to fly an aircraft that still has that new car smell and that isn't older than he is.  Whether it is the best for the job or not, if the SAAB is the one picked 3 months after training commences there will be a total buy in by the flight crews.  This is not saying that the SAAB is the one to buy, that is just an observation after years of working with pilots.

You’ll see a whole lot, more-so than now, of experienced fighter pilots, our backbone, that would leave.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You’ll see a whole lot, more-so than now, of experienced fighter pilots, our backbone, that would leave.

Yeah... it would be too much like all your friends seeing you drive by in a Volvo station wagon with two dogs in the back and a 'baby on board' sticker in the rear window

 

[SupersonicMax]

Yeah... it would be too much like all your friends seeing you drive by in a Volvo station wagon with two dogs in the back and a 'baby on board' sticker in the rear window

No, it’s because we know it isn’t the aircraft for Canada.  The Government buying the Grippen would show that it doesn’t really have its priorities right and definitely not our safety in combat at heart. 

 

[dimsum]

No, it’s because we know it isn’t the aircraft for Canada.  The Government buying the Grippen would show that it doesn’t really have its priorities right and definitely not our safety in combat at heart.

The cynic in me would say "then why is capability, cost, and benefits valued at 60/20/20 instead of 70/15/15, or 80/10/10", or words to that effect.

But that's if I was a cynic 

 

[MTShaw]

No, it’s because we know it isn’t the aircraft for Canada.  The Government buying the Grippen would show that it doesn’t really have its priorities right and definitely not our safety in combat at heart.

The challenge is supporting an F-35 in one of the coldest, most barren places on the earth.  I agree that the vast majority of our fleet should be composed of the F-35, but we also need something like the Gripen that can be repaired in much more austere conditions. It’s not so simple as mirroring the Americans.  We have differing requirements.

Without something like the Gripen, or a smaller, tactical MPA, you won’t have to worry about “our safety in combat” (whatever that means), because we won’t be there.