The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Retired AF Guy]

Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road.

Because that's what they always do.

 

[dimsum]

Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road.

Because we "can".  Finland is next to...well, you know.  They probably have defence as a pretty high priority given geography and history.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Dimsum:

Because we "can".  Finland is next to...well, you know.

Meanwhile we have that pesky 36-fighter commitment to NORAD vs an ever-improving Russkie bombers (Tu-95, Tu-160, maybe sometime a stealth bomber) and ALCM threat--and what if those bombers can be escorted by refuelled fighters, e.g. MiG-31, later Su-57?

NORAD to Face Escorted Cruise Missile-Carrying Russian Bombers?
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/mark-collins-norad-to-face-escorted-cruise-missile-carrying-russian-bombers/

Further links to other posts within the main post no longer work, but do if you cut and past the title into the search box at upper right.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[dimsum]

Dimsum:

Meanwhile we have that pesky 36-fighter commitment to NORAD vs an ever-improving Russkie bombers (Tu-95, Tu-160, maybe sometime a stealth bomber) and ALCM threat--and what if those bombers can be escorted by refuelled fighters, e.g. MiG-31, later Su-57?

Further links to other posts within the main post no longer work, but do if you cut and past the title into the search box at upper right.

Mark
Ottawa

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why we need a robust fighter capability, but the Canadian public doesn't b/c of reasons we've gone into in multiple discussions.  I'm just saying that the Finns share a border with Russia and have been invaded before by them during WWII, so they know that they need a decent military.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Fly in front of the with special containers dispensing Frozen Chickens  8)

 

[daftandbarmy]

Fly in front of the with special containers dispensing Frozen Chickens  8)

Or 'Trudeau Parkas'. They could actually use them in Scandinavia... 

 

[Kirkhill]

Meanwhile - Down-under - the loyal wingman

An unmanned combat air vehicle that is capable of some semi-autonomous missions and can operate in the loyal wingman role, where it is 'tethered' to and takes directions from a nearby manned platform via data-link, makes a lot of sense for Australia as it would boost their air combat capabilities without needing to buy additional high-cost fighters or train new aircrews. It also would also make all their fighter force more survivable and capable of adapting to hostile threats on the fly. In addition, it would also increase their fighter cadre's magazine capacity, sensor diversity, range. The drones themselves can also be networked together in a swarm, giving them greater capability than the sum of their parts.

These concepts can be manifested in distinct aircraft, or potentially blended together in a single airframe, albeit with some compromises. But still, they should be less expensive than a very stealthy, high-end, flying-wing UCAV that is built for semi-autonomous or even autonomous operations deep in enemy territory.

A full-on fighter-like UCAV is also possible, but due to cost and the investment Australia has already made in their growing fleet of F-35s, this seems doubtful at this time. Also, high kinetic performance would mean sacrificing stealth and range, something that makes little sense really. And we know by the features Boeing has shown that this aircraft is designed for fighter-like speed and maneuverability, not extreme stealthiness and long range.

http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26656/boeing-will-unveil-this-loyal-wingman-combat-drone-for-australias-air-force-tomorrow

Muuummmyyyy!  Why can't we do neat stuff like this!  The Aussies get to do it!!!  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

[Kirkhill]

And just a reminder of what the F-35 can do with Manned "wingmen"

Here’s how Col. Joshua Wood recalled the mission, providing a few details about the performance of the stealth aircraft in the latest exercise (that saw the participation of thirteen pilots in the squadron who had never flown the F-35 in Red Flag, including four who had just graduated pilot training):

“I’ve never seen anything like it before. This is not a mission you want a young pilot flying in. My wingman was a brand new F-35A pilot, seven or eight flights out of training. He gets on the radio and tells an experienced, 3,000-hour pilot in a very capable fourth-generation aircraft. ‘Hey bud, you need to turn around. You’re about to die. There’s a threat off your nose.’”

The young pilot then “killed” the enemy aircraft and had three more kills in the hour-long mission.

https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/16/the-first-reports-of-how-the-f-35-strutted-its-stuff-in-dogfights-against-aggressors-at-red-flag-are-starting-to-emerge/

 

[a_majoor]

If I were to choose a UAV/UCAV as a partner for the RCAF I might consider the MQ25 "Stingray"

While designed as a tanker (and the RCAF could use tanker support), the large internal volume of the airframe suggests it could also be adapted for air surveillance, EW/ECM, and as an arsenal aircraft carrying lots of bombs or missiles. Farther in the future, the airframe could be fitted with a laser or an airborne railgun, allowing the aircraft to engage a multitude of targets from the ground to the edge of space.

One, large unmanned airframe could be used for a multitude of roles. supplementing many different RCAF airframes, and more airframes could be purchased at once and fitted out as surveillance aircraft for the Coast Guard, CBSA, Fisheries and Oceans etc., providing economies of scale.

 

[Loachman]

Are you volunteering?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Are you volunteering?

That depends. How many pay sheets do I get to sign?

 

[MilEME09]

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/blast-past-why-new-f-15x-could-dominate-skies-46067

Article mentions the USAF is interested in the F-15X. That would make it more atteactive if their was multiple orders and a production line active for more then just us.

 

[MilEME09]

Lockmart has a new/old product on the way. Meet the F-21/F16V

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/it-has-f-22-and-f-35-dna-introducing-lockheed-martins-new-f-21-fighter-47822

 

[The Bread Guy]

More fodder for discussion ...

"Amid a feud with Turkey over the F-35, the US is thinking about selling it other European allies worried about Russia"

The United States is considering expanding sales of Lockheed Martin Corp-made F-35 fighter jets to five new nations including Romania, Greece and Poland as European allies bulk up their defenses in the face of a strengthening Russia, a Pentagon official told Congress on Thursday.

In written testimony submitted to the US House of Representatives and seen by Reuters, Vice Adm. Mathias Winter — the head of the Pentagon's F-35 office — said that "future potential Foreign Military Sales customers include Singapore, Greece, Romania, Spain and Poland."

News of the new customers coincides with US tension with F-35 development partner Turkey over Ankara's plans to buy a Russian missile defense system.

Foreign military sales like those of the F-35 are considered government-to-government deals where the Pentagon acts as an intermediary between the defense contractor and a foreign government. Other US allies have been eyeing a purchase of the stealthy jet including Finland, Switzerland and the United Arab Emirates.

Winter's full written testimony, which will be made public as soon as Friday, said the United States would respond to all official requests for information about the jet ...

More @ link

 

[daftandbarmy]

More fodder for discussion ...

"Amid a feud with Turkey over the F-35, the US is thinking about selling it other European allies worried about Russia"More @ link

Great. That will officially consign our air force to 3rd world status... oh, wait... 4th world

 

[vonGarvin]

Great. That will officially consign our air force to 3rd world status... oh, wait... 4th world

I know what you mean, but technically incorrect
1st World is "the West"
2nd World is "the East", formerly the Soviet bloc, but today could include Russia, China, etc.
3rd World is the non-aligned world

I think the correct term would be 4th rate 

 

[kev994]

But hey, we got beards and ribbons b

 

[MarkOttawa]

And when will see actual IOC for the planes? Second part of piece is basically pro-Gripen E propaganda but note part about Russian A2/AD:

Canada's fighter jet tender competition (finally) takes off next month
Attempts to replace 3-decade-old CF-18s began in 2010, but have been mired in politics

The politically charged competition to replace Canada's aging fleet of fighter jets will rocket forward at the end of May as the federal government releases a long-anticipated, full-fledged tender call.

There are four companies in the running: Saab of Sweden, Airbus Defence and Space out of Britain, and the American firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Once the request for proposals is released, the manufacturers will have until the end of the year to submit bids [emphasis added, i.e. after the election], defence and industry sources told CBC News.

It was the former Conservative government that kicked off the effort to replace the three-decade-old CF-18s in 2010, an attempt that was shot down in a dispute over the way the F-35 fighter was selected.

The program became mired in politics when the Liberals promised during the 2015 election campaign not to buy the stealth jet. A final decision will now have to wait until after this fall's election...

There has been a rigorous political and academic debate about whether Canada should choose a legacy design from the 1990s, such as the Gripen, or the recently introduced Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

The notion that stealth fighters are needed for conflicts with countries like Russia — countries that have advanced air defence systems — was partly dismissed by the Swedish Defence Research Agency in a recent report.

Russia's anti-access/areas-denial weapons (known as A2/AD) are not all they're cracked up to be, said the report released last month, which looked at the use of such systems in the Syria conflict.

"Much has in recent years been made of Russia's new capabilities and the impact they might have on the ability of NATO member states to reinforce or defend the vulnerable Baltic states in case of crisis or war," said the report.

"On closer inspection, however, Russia's capabilities are not quite as daunting, especially if potential countermeasures are factored in."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/SOMNIA-1.5096811

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MilEME09]

I feel like they have all the information they need to do this in 6 months not 1 year

 

[YZT580]

It isn't Procurement, it is the manufacturers who have to have the time to put together an offer that is compliant with the requirements of the competition.  Once the previous procurement agreement was scuttled it was back to square one for everybody and that takes time.  Besides it takes the entire issue out of the election.