The "Occupy" Movement

[Bass ackwards]

This could make things more interesting:

Here's an exceprt from Ezra Levant's column in today's Toronto Sun:
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings Provision of the Copyright Act:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/31/arrival-of-mohawks-takes-occupy-up-a-notch

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
But last week, a group of hard-bitten men dressed in camouflage gear showed up and camped out in the ruined Toronto park, too.

They call themselves Mohawk Warriors. And they don’t believe that the laws of Canada apply to them.

Being exempt from Canadian laws has become a specialty of the Mohawk Warriors. These were the folks who had a two-month armed standoff with police and the Canadian army in Oka, Que., that led to the murder of Quebec police corporal Marcel Lemay and the injury of 10 RCMP officers. The Canadian Forces had to be called in.

The Mohawk Warriors conducted another military mission in the Ontario community of Caledonia in 2006, when they occupied a residential development site — again, setting up barricades, harassing and threatening citizens.

This time when the police came, they didn’t try to stop the Mohawks — they stopped the law-abiding community from fighting back. The illegal, gun-toting criminals were protected by the police; mere taxpayers were the ones driven out.

So now the Mohawk Warriors have moved on to their biggest and boldest target yet: Downtown Toronto.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the first I've heard about MW's being there.
And they do have a way of livening up protests...

 

[Retired AF Guy]

This could make things more interesting:

Here's an exceprt from Ezra Levant's column in today's Toronto Sun:
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings Provision of the Copyright Act:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/31/arrival-of-mohawks-takes-occupy-up-a-notch

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
But last week, a group of hard-bitten men dressed in camouflage gear showed up and camped out in the ruined Toronto park, too.

They call themselves Mohawk Warriors. And they don’t believe that the laws of Canada apply to them.

Being exempt from Canadian laws has become a specialty of the Mohawk Warriors. These were the folks who had a two-month armed standoff with police and the Canadian army in Oka, Que., that led to the murder of Quebec police corporal Marcel Lemay and the injury of 10 RCMP officers. The Canadian Forces had to be called in.

The Mohawk Warriors conducted another military mission in the Ontario community of Caledonia in 2006, when they occupied a residential development site — again, setting up barricades, harassing and threatening citizens.

This time when the police came, they didn’t try to stop the Mohawks — they stopped the law-abiding community from fighting back. The illegal, gun-toting criminals were protected by the police; mere taxpayers were the ones driven out.

So now the Mohawk Warriors have moved on to their biggest and boldest target yet: Downtown Toronto.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the first I've heard about MW's being there.
And they do have a way of livening up protests...

I've heard/read about it on various media outlets in the last few days. I live in Kingston and listen/read various Toronto based radio/newspapers so they are more likely to mention it then the MSM in Vancouver or Halifax, for example.

 

[daftandbarmy]

One occupy movement meets another....

 

[Nemo888]

Looks like the church is remembering it's liberal socialist past.  The liberal class that brought in the new deal was not just unions. It also included the Church, artists, journalists and academics. They kept the system balanced back in the day. They confronted racism, sexism, child labour, took on monopolists, brought in the 40 hour work week, better public education, secured us pensions, enabled social class mobility, produced a meritocracy and gave the working class a decent life.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/nov/01/occupy-london-live-coverage-of-protests-and-reaction
City and St Paul's suspend legal action against Occupy London – Tuesday 1 November 2011

5.10pm: Here is an evening summary on a busy day at St Paul's Cathedral, where Occupy London protesters woke up thinking they were going to be served with eviction notices and found both the cathedral and the Corporation of London backing away from confrontation.

• Both St Paul's Cathedral and the Corporation of the City of London have suspended their legal action against the Occupy London protest against economic inequality that has been camped next to the church since 15 October.

• The Corporation, the local authority in the City, says its "pause" may only last until tomorrow or a few days' time (see 4.30pm). Its spokesman said it would make a further announcement tomorrow at lunchtime. It suspended its legal action "to support the cathedral", which had already announced it was dropping its action, and "to work out a measured solution" to the problem of the protest camp in the western lee of the church.

• St Paul's Cathedral's decision followed the Chapter of St Paul's, the cathedral's governing body, inviting the Bishop of London, Richard Chartres, to help it decide how to handle the protests after three resignations amongst its clergy. Chartres said today: "The alarm bells are ringing all over the world. St Paul's has now heard that call. Today's decision means that the doors are most emphatically open to engage with matters concerning not only those encamped around the cathedral but millions of others in this country and around the globe." St Paul's now intends to engage "directly and constructively with both the protesters and the moral and ethical issues they wish to address", a statement from the cathedral said. At a press conference, the Right Rev Michael Colclough explained that the change of heart came because the cathedral had received legal advice that as long as they were part of the eviction action they should not engage formally with the protesters (see 4.22pm). Colclough said the church would now try to act as a brokering agent between the protesters and the Corporation in the dispute. Protesters reacted positively to the decision (see 2.15pm).

• In its statement announcing the suspension of its legal action, St Paul's also announced that it was setting up a new initiative to try to reconnect "the financial with the ethical". This will be headed by banker Ken Costa, who wrote in the Financial Times on Saturday: "When such a wide range of people are singing a tune perhaps discordant to a City worker's ears but seemingly in tune with the global view that the market economy has failed to deliver growth, jobs and hope, we need to listen. The cure is not more legislation, or increased regulation. It is the pressing need to reconnect the financial with the ethical." Giles Fraser, who resigned as St Paul's Cathedral's canon chancellor on Thursday, will also be involved. My colleague Riazat Butt points out that the new initiative's brief is very similar to that of the existing St Paul's Institute (see 1.33pm).
(more at link)

 

[Redeye]

Considering the source is Ezra Levant, I wouldn't get too worked up about this. It's probably a non-story.

This could make things more interesting:

Here's an exceprt from Ezra Levant's column in today's Toronto Sun:
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings Provision of the Copyright Act:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/31/arrival-of-mohawks-takes-occupy-up-a-notch

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
But last week, a group of hard-bitten men dressed in camouflage gear showed up and camped out in the ruined Toronto park, too.

They call themselves Mohawk Warriors. And they don’t believe that the laws of Canada apply to them.

Being exempt from Canadian laws has become a specialty of the Mohawk Warriors. These were the folks who had a two-month armed standoff with police and the Canadian army in Oka, Que., that led to the murder of Quebec police corporal Marcel Lemay and the injury of 10 RCMP officers. The Canadian Forces had to be called in.

The Mohawk Warriors conducted another military mission in the Ontario community of Caledonia in 2006, when they occupied a residential development site — again, setting up barricades, harassing and threatening citizens.

This time when the police came, they didn’t try to stop the Mohawks — they stopped the law-abiding community from fighting back. The illegal, gun-toting criminals were protected by the police; mere taxpayers were the ones driven out.

So now the Mohawk Warriors have moved on to their biggest and boldest target yet: Downtown Toronto.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the first I've heard about MW's being there.
And they do have a way of livening up protests...

- mod edited to remove questionable content -

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Do you feel that the "ad hominem" description of Mr Levant helps with the point that you were trying to make?

Personally, I find that when people stoop to name calling, whether it is directed at Mr Obama, Mr Bush, (the former) Mr Layton, Mr Harper, The Liberal Party, The NDP, The Conservative Party, I automatically begin discounting what is being said.

But that is just me.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Protests are happening in Canada primarily because there is a class of horse - I won't call them warhorses, because they are not that useful - that welcomes any excuse to assemble and protest when they get a whiff of....something which is not gunpowder.  It's the same thing that happens when two or more big unions happen to go on strike at the same time - all the hangers-on come out of the woodwork to flex their muscle, muttering about workers and general strikes and all sorts of other bullshit, to an overture of folk songs and "Solidarity Forever".

 

[Brad Sallows]

The main difference in our financial system is that we did not have government leaning on financial institutions to make a greater number of bad loans to homebuyers, or creating/pushing federal agencies to make a greater number of bad loans.  Absent the shitty loans, the financial institutions didn't need to come up with new ways of bundling shitty loans into impenetrable packages they could sell off and "swap" to mitigate their risk - they could just mitigate their risks using the same old transparent practices to which they had become accustomed.  Absent the shitty loans, we had our own bull market in housing but not stoked by additional fuel mandated by government.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>A Republican party whose main stated goal is to kill any attempt for reelection of Obama vice any effort at economic recovery. Hence frustration at the governments lack of action.

It puzzles me that some people keep pointing to the Republicans as obstructionist/do-nothing.  Their point is that Obama was obstructionist/do-nothing for three years; why should he be re-elected to solve a problem that does not interest him or be permitted to advance any legislative ball in any direction which will tend to further strangle employers?  So he can spend another four years trying to pass another version of PPACA, or some other meddlesome legislation on the academic left's wish-list?

It puzzles me that anyone can reconcile belief in "promote economic recovery" with belief in "re-elect Obama".

The Republican House has, incidentally, passed a number of measures (also known as "action" or effort, vice "lack of action" or "lack of effort").  They just aren't going anywhere in the non-obstructionist/do-something Democratic-dominated Senate, so that the non-obstructionist/do-something President can veto them.

 

[cupper]

You want to know why the GOP is considered obstructionist / do nothing?

It's hard to defend a your position as trying to do something to improve the economic conditions when you end up rejecting proposals that are identical to pone put forth by your own party in previous years.

"Obamacare" is modeled on "Romneycare" which is modeled on a proposal by the Gingrich lead GOP.

Many parts of the latest Jobs plan were proposed by Republicans during the end of the Bush years.

Even former GOP lawmakers are calling out their own. Alan Simpson said today the current crop of GOP congressional members need to stand up against their own special interests to do what is right, even if it may be painful to do so.

http://thehill.com/video/senate/191089-former-gop-chairman-says-calling-ending-tax-expenditures-a-tax-increases-is-a-lie-

 

[Brad Sallows]

There's a difference between "rejecting your own proposals" and "rejecting a package that happens to contain some of your own proposals".  Do you understand it?

 

[cupper]

There's a difference between "rejecting your own proposals" and "rejecting a package that happens to contain some of your own proposals".  Do you understand it?

No. Clarify it for me. >

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Do you feel that the "ad hominem" description of Mr Levant helps with the point that you were trying to make?

Personally, I find that when people stoop to name calling, whether it is directed at Mr Obama, Mr Bush, (the former) Mr Layton, Mr Harper, The Liberal Party, The NDP, The Conservative Party, I automatically begin discounting what is being said.

But that is just me.

Not just you ST. I began discounting those prose a long time ago. This time I just quite reading after the first sentence.

 

[Wookilar]

SO...ok then. Let me see if I've got this straight:

In the US, like pretty much every where else, recession hit the whole country (to one degree or another). Gov't responded by "encouraging" banks to loan more money to, in essence, add to the already considerable funds they (the gov't) had already provided in order to "stimulate" the economy. Part of the result of that was the extension of loans to people that otherwise would not have qualified, who largely defaulted on said loans latter on, which added to the growing "loss" of income and aggravated the pop of an inflated real estate market in many (if not most) areas.

The "loss" in Canada was not nearly as severe due to our more regulated banks (so fewer bad loans), the housing bubble still hasn't deflated that much in key areas so no large loss of homes and businesses which left parts of the States a virtual wasteland of empty buildings.

Now, overseas:

Did countries like Greece just overextend themselves with their version of the welfare state and now the people are unwilling to pay the price? Did the same type of activity (bad loans, housing burst, consequential loss of homes/businesses) in the States get replicated in other countries?

So........ what the hell does this all have to do with the 1%?

It seems to me, it wasn't the 1%, like Buffet, that made bad loans they had no hope of repaying, it was the 99% themselves. Yes, occasionally someone does a Trump, but that is a minor part of the so-called 1% that gets a lot of publicity, but doesn't really have a lot of effect in the long term.

I've been through.... 5 houses now, and multiple mortgages with most of them, of different types/durations over the years as interest rates have changed. I've also had personal loans since I was a Pte.

Whether or not the bank was "willing" to give me a loan or not was never my first consideration, it was "how much can I afford" followed by "what benefit will I see from this loan?"

Now, I'm not saying there is not some income disparity in the world. Absolutely there is.

However, I don't understand how some other guy being rich has anything to do with me making a bad loan.

Time to accept responsibility and grow up.

If anyone could add some light to the situation in Europe, I would appreciate it if you could do it like Brad and use small words so I can keep up.

Thanks.

Wook

 

[Redeye]

A mod rather smartly altered the post, which is of course for the best. However, Mr. Levant's reporting (including his furthering the "Nazi collaborator" smear of George Soros) doesn't make the statement particularly awful. The story is worded to make it sounds as if something horrible is happening, which in fact doesn't appear to be even remotely true.

Do you feel that the "ad hominem" description of Mr Levant helps with the point that you were trying to make?

Personally, I find that when people stoop to name calling, whether it is directed at Mr Obama, Mr Bush, (the former) Mr Layton, Mr Harper, The Liberal Party, The NDP, The Conservative Party, I automatically begin discounting what is being said.

But that is just me.

 

[ModlrMike]

If anyone could add some light to the situation in Europe, I would appreciate it if you could do it like Brad and use small words so I can keep up.

Thanks.

Wook

Bread and circuses.

 

[Redeye]

Bread and circuses.

That's about the simplest explanation I've seen yet and fairly apt.

The Prime Minister of Greece basically decided to put the conditions of the bailout the Eurozone (read: France and Germany) are prepared to give Greece to stabilize it, which includes a lot of austerity measures and an overhaul of the country's fiscal system, pension reforms, and so on, to a referendum, which shocked the world, because there's a chance they could reject the bailout and the Greek economy would be fucked - spreading in turn to the Euro. The only option they have is unpalatable to the average Greek, potentially, and the rest of the Eurozone thus doesn't really want them to get a say in it, they just want Greece to get on with it. With a shaky coalition government, though, it's not so simple.

 

[GAP]

and if Greece goes....the rest of the PIIGS will go too (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain)

 

[Redeye]

and if Greece goes....the rest of the PIIGS will go too (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain)

Yes. Spain is the biggest area of concern it seems, just because of the size of its economy. Ireland seems to be viewed as having the best potential to get its house in order, but they all became severely overleveraged for various reasons, and without fixing underlying problems, they will be the Euro's undoing, with knock on effects for everyone.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Ireland has the means and, it appears, the will to dig itself out of trouble. None of Greece, Portugal, Spain or, worst of all, Italy appear to have any will at all and the first three, at least, probably lack the means, too.

I think a Greek default is a forgone conclusion: the bailout, itself, with a 50-60% haircut for bond holders, is more than half a default. I doubt Portugal or Spain can avoid asking for similar treatment and I guess their bondholders will take similar haircuts.