The Merged Thread on Gay/ Homosexual Topics and the CF.
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Rodahn said:
Being a girl - I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IQkg21Qw1k&feature=related
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Don't worry, I won't, and I do change the channel whenever anything I consider innappropriate is on (gratuitous violence, sex, etc). I still however, don't think that a city street is a place for it. Straight or gay, I don't buy that argument that since it's everywhere already, let's open the floodgates. These are my city streets too, and if it's "open season", then let's let all groups out there have a day. Even those groups that the PC crowd wouldn't want to see on their streets.ArmyVern said:
Anyway, I think the worst offense this past weekend was the Hamilton parade organisers. They were ignorant (they though that the CF was at Caledonia, arresting criminals) and they displayed bigotry against people who just wanted to partake in the parade. Now THAT is an outrage.
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After re-reading my own posts, it seems as though I come across as some sort of stuffed shirt neolithic caveman with no capacity to understand anything other than my own belief system. If any feels that way about me, you are mistaken; however, I can totally understand how you come to that conclusion.
So, to clarify, yes, it is true that I do not accept homosexuality as normal. I have my own reasons for this belief of mine, and I don't have to explain myself to anyone. Just as I don't expect others to explain their beliefs to me.
Do I tolerate it? By all means YES.
Now, remember, tolerance does NOT equal acceptance.
To further clarify, I do NOT believe that people who are homosexual should be persecuted. I beleive that all persons, irrespective of who they are, have the same right to self-expression and self-determination as I. As corny as it sounds, it's one of the reasons why I joined the CF. Canada is a place that is rather tolerant of many things, and is, in my opinion and experiences, displays a world-class model of tolerance, which implies understanding.
This is part of the reason that I teach my children to treat ALL people with respect. I also try to show them a model of this behaviour (though I am human, and I make mistakes, trust me!!!!) Though, when I do, I try to explain the errors of my ways to them.
So, in conclusion, though I may not believe that homosexuality is normal, that's just me, and maybe I'm the abnormal one (of course it's a possibility, but I don't believe it. If I beleived that I was anything but normal, well...that's a loaded statement!!!) ;D
I just feel horrible that I have gone overseas (and will again) to defend people to do what they want, without fear of persecution or exclusion because of their chosen lifestyle. And let's face it, the CF members who wanted to partake in the parade in Hamilton WERE excluded because of their lifestyle by a bigoted thought process. If you don't believe me that being in the CF is a lifestyle, then don't just take my take on it, ask any CF member: it IS a lifestyle with its own language, norms, traditions and history. In the words of Peter Griffin, it really grinds my gears to think in this day and age of tolerance, they were forbidden to march. That is not what my Canada is all about.
[/rant]
OK, I'm off to take some more meds for my condition. Sorry everyone!
So, to clarify, yes, it is true that I do not accept homosexuality as normal. I have my own reasons for this belief of mine, and I don't have to explain myself to anyone. Just as I don't expect others to explain their beliefs to me.
Do I tolerate it? By all means YES.
Now, remember, tolerance does NOT equal acceptance.
To further clarify, I do NOT believe that people who are homosexual should be persecuted. I beleive that all persons, irrespective of who they are, have the same right to self-expression and self-determination as I. As corny as it sounds, it's one of the reasons why I joined the CF. Canada is a place that is rather tolerant of many things, and is, in my opinion and experiences, displays a world-class model of tolerance, which implies understanding.
This is part of the reason that I teach my children to treat ALL people with respect. I also try to show them a model of this behaviour (though I am human, and I make mistakes, trust me!!!!) Though, when I do, I try to explain the errors of my ways to them.
So, in conclusion, though I may not believe that homosexuality is normal, that's just me, and maybe I'm the abnormal one (of course it's a possibility, but I don't believe it. If I beleived that I was anything but normal, well...that's a loaded statement!!!) ;D
I just feel horrible that I have gone overseas (and will again) to defend people to do what they want, without fear of persecution or exclusion because of their chosen lifestyle. And let's face it, the CF members who wanted to partake in the parade in Hamilton WERE excluded because of their lifestyle by a bigoted thought process. If you don't believe me that being in the CF is a lifestyle, then don't just take my take on it, ask any CF member: it IS a lifestyle with its own language, norms, traditions and history. In the words of Peter Griffin, it really grinds my gears to think in this day and age of tolerance, they were forbidden to march. That is not what my Canada is all about.
[/rant]
OK, I'm off to take some more meds for my condition. Sorry everyone!
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Mortarman Rockpainter said:
Well put - let's see how organizers in Hamilton deal with it NEXT year....
Also well said, and bang on - folks I know who are gay are LIVID at being painted with the same brush (or even mentioned in the same sentence/breath) as NAMBLA by overgeneralizers. Gay does NOT equal pedophile.
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My personal opinions aside, as they really have no bearing on this matter, I am quite disappointed with their decision. I could care less if someone is gay. I do find it quite hard to believe that this was authorized. Our mission in Afghanistan is to allow this sort of freedom, I suppose. However, I do believe that personal lifestyles should stay just that, personal. Besides, the uniform looks some bland next to all the leather, feather boas, and silk.
Paddy,
Paddy,
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<slight highjack>
I'm guessing the foreign-trained MD's who have to work as health care aides in nursing homes (or driving cab - and yes, I've met such beasts) in cities where as many as one in four residents don't have a doctor get the message pretty quickly.
</slight hijack>
The issue isn't with the individual (s/he is in a country where we can express opinions without fear of retribution) - the issue's with the group and how they handled the request for a military recruiting presence.
TCBF said:
I'm guessing the foreign-trained MD's who have to work as health care aides in nursing homes (or driving cab - and yes, I've met such beasts) in cities where as many as one in four residents don't have a doctor get the message pretty quickly.
</slight hijack>
The issue isn't with the individual (s/he is in a country where we can express opinions without fear of retribution) - the issue's with the group and how they handled the request for a military recruiting presence.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/06/29/gay-pride.html?ref=rss
Interesting story. Good to see that the CF isn't turning away soldiers on the basis of their sexual orientation. Plenty of decorated Iraq war vets in the US have been discharged for that reason.
Interesting story. Good to see that the CF isn't turning away soldiers on the basis of their sexual orientation. Plenty of decorated Iraq war vets in the US have been discharged for that reason.
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ArmyVern said:
Fantastic post, ArmyVern.
There are many who live by your above post, myself included.
If more would live by the "golden rule", well, the world would be a better place.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Meanwhile, in the UK....
Gay troops paid for Pride march
HOMOSEXUAL soldiers are to be paid travelling expenses so they can take part in Gay Pride marches – in uniform.
They have been told to apply for rail travel warrants or claim their car mileage for marches in London this Saturday and in Brighton next month.
Straight troops hit out at the move last night because they do not get the same privilege – even when they are going to see the REAL Queen.
A furious squaddie said: “A mate is off to London in his uniform to the Queen’s Garden Party but he will not be getting mileage to go. Fair, equal or what?”
It will be the first time Army and RAF gays have been allowed to march in uniform. Royal Navy sailors already can.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/article1367220.ece
Gay troops paid for Pride march
HOMOSEXUAL soldiers are to be paid travelling expenses so they can take part in Gay Pride marches – in uniform.
They have been told to apply for rail travel warrants or claim their car mileage for marches in London this Saturday and in Brighton next month.
Straight troops hit out at the move last night because they do not get the same privilege – even when they are going to see the REAL Queen.
A furious squaddie said: “A mate is off to London in his uniform to the Queen’s Garden Party but he will not be getting mileage to go. Fair, equal or what?”
It will be the first time Army and RAF gays have been allowed to march in uniform. Royal Navy sailors already can.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/article1367220.ece
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daftandbarmy said:
If the parade is sanctioned by the military and an official request was received for participation, than yes, they should get compensated. However, the garden party, although sanctioned by the military, is attented by private invitation I believe. D&B, you would probably know more as to the attendance to this event. If that is the case (private invite) then compensation would not be covered. It would be the equivalent of my being invited to attend an event, as an officer, at the GGs place.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Strike,
It sounds like 'sour grapes' to me. I was invited to the 'Garden Party' a couple of times (couldn't go) but could have slammed in a travel claim if I had got my act together. Good on the gay troops for leading by example and getting their admin in order!
D&B
It sounds like 'sour grapes' to me. I was invited to the 'Garden Party' a couple of times (couldn't go) but could have slammed in a travel claim if I had got my act together. Good on the gay troops for leading by example and getting their admin in order!
D&B
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Last weekend I was out, actually in the line-up to a bar, and a guy I know, who ran in the last federal election got in line right behind me. After 2 minutes the usual line chatter kicks up and despite my best efforts he saw me. (read with drunken slur) “Hey I remember you, you used to be in the NDP … then you quit and joined the army) I replied with “Close, I joined the CF and then left the NDP when they put forward a resolution saying that we were acting like terrorists I left in disgust.” He replied “yea but the army man, that sucks”. (I’ve known him for a while and I know there is no reasoning with him, and I never argue with drunken people)
I was about to walk away, many better places with better crowds I can text my friend’s on the new location, when the other people in line stopped everything they were doing and looked at him but his date said “what the hell are you saying, the army doesn’t suck…” Long story short he got chewed out, I didn’t pay cover and I didn’t see him inside later.
I know the type of mentality that some on the extreme left, the kind that thinks “Get Canadian troops out of Iraq end the occupation!” and then says “Send Troops into Darfur”. There is no reasoning with them. I think this is the same reasoning that prompted the organizers in Hamilton to make their decision.
On a bit of an aside:
Earlier on this thread someone said that tolerance isn’t the same as acceptance. Very true. But visibility is the most effective way to fight prejudice. I live right by Moss Park, if I threw a Frisbee it could land on the playground (wind allowing ).
For some strange reason (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/347166 ) some people in this area get nervous with people in uniform; especially at night when I’m walking home from the subway. I know when I’m in uniform I represent a group much larger than myself, so I behave accordingly. Honestly a smile is so effective it is kind of shocking. The same group of guys who once got quiet as I passed and gave me the evil eye, now smile say hello and occasionally (annoyingly) salute. All that change from nothing but a hello, a nod and a smile. This type of visibility changes attitudes and allows me to not schlep my uniform to and from work.
Most gay people I know honestly think the CF doesn’t allow them to join. Or we have a don’t ask don’t tell policy. Imagine the good will we can get if we look to a group of people and give them a collective nod and a smile. Might help with the recruiting numbers, judging only by appearances it looks like most of them could easily carry a 40kg ruck 20Km no problem at all. (that’s a joke)
I was about to walk away, many better places with better crowds I can text my friend’s on the new location, when the other people in line stopped everything they were doing and looked at him but his date said “what the hell are you saying, the army doesn’t suck…” Long story short he got chewed out, I didn’t pay cover and I didn’t see him inside later.
I know the type of mentality that some on the extreme left, the kind that thinks “Get Canadian troops out of Iraq end the occupation!” and then says “Send Troops into Darfur”. There is no reasoning with them. I think this is the same reasoning that prompted the organizers in Hamilton to make their decision.
On a bit of an aside:
Earlier on this thread someone said that tolerance isn’t the same as acceptance. Very true. But visibility is the most effective way to fight prejudice. I live right by Moss Park, if I threw a Frisbee it could land on the playground (wind allowing ).
For some strange reason (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/347166 ) some people in this area get nervous with people in uniform; especially at night when I’m walking home from the subway. I know when I’m in uniform I represent a group much larger than myself, so I behave accordingly. Honestly a smile is so effective it is kind of shocking. The same group of guys who once got quiet as I passed and gave me the evil eye, now smile say hello and occasionally (annoyingly) salute. All that change from nothing but a hello, a nod and a smile. This type of visibility changes attitudes and allows me to not schlep my uniform to and from work.
Most gay people I know honestly think the CF doesn’t allow them to join. Or we have a don’t ask don’t tell policy. Imagine the good will we can get if we look to a group of people and give them a collective nod and a smile. Might help with the recruiting numbers, judging only by appearances it looks like most of them could easily carry a 40kg ruck 20Km no problem at all. (that’s a joke
)Zell_Dietrich said:Last weekend I was out, actually in the line-up to a bar, and a guy I know, who ran in the last federal election got in line right behind me. After 2 minutes the usual line chatter kicks up and despite my best efforts he saw me. (read with drunken slur) “Hey I remember you, you used to be in the NDP … then you quit and joined the army) I replied with “Close, I joined the CF and then left the NDP when they put forward a resolution saying that we were acting like terrorists I left in disgust.” He replied “yea but the army man, that sucks”. (I’ve known him for a while and I know there is no reasoning with him, and I never argue with drunken people)
I was about to walk away, many better places with better crowds I can text my friend’s on the new location, when the other people in line stopped everything they were doing and looked at him but his date said “what the hell are you saying, the army doesn’t suck…” Long story short he got chewed out, I didn’t pay cover and I didn’t see him inside later.
I know the type of mentality that some on the extreme left, the kind that thinks “Get Canadian troops out of Iraq end the occupation!” and then says “Send Troops into Darfur”. There is no reasoning with them. I think this is the same reasoning that prompted the organizers in Hamilton to make their decision.
On a bit of an aside:
Earlier on this thread someone said that tolerance isn’t the same as acceptance. Very true. But visibility is the most effective way to fight prejudice. I live right by Moss Park, if I threw a Frisbee it could land on the playground (wind allowing ).
For some strange reason (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/347166 ) some people in this area get nervous with people in uniform; especially at night when I’m walking home from the subway. I know when I’m in uniform I represent a group much larger than myself, so I behave accordingly. Honestly a smile is so effective it is kind of shocking. The same group of guys who once got quiet as I passed and gave me the evil eye, now smile say hello and occasionally (annoyingly) salute. All that change from nothing but a hello, a nod and a smile. This type of visibility changes attitudes and allows me to not schlep my uniform to and from work.
Most gay people I know honestly think the CF doesn’t allow them to join. Or we have a don’t ask don’t tell policy. Imagine the good will we can get if we look to a group of people and give them a collective nod and a smile. Might help with the recruiting numbers, judging only by appearances it looks like most of them could easily carry a 40kg ruck 20Km no problem at all. (that’s a joke
The NDP candidate wasn't Dan Harris was it?
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Sheerin said:
No. I'd say his name, but as much as I don't like him I don't feel right hoping online telling a group of people things he said while drunk. But I do feel okay with showing his picture - if you know him you know him, if you don't you can know your local NDPer isn't this guy. I think he is just young and "idealist" who I don't think understands that what he means and indends to say may not be understood the way he intends it.
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I've met a few people in the NDP with the same attitude. I used to be a pacifist so I understand the point of view they approach the military with. Disappointing. Now as far as the organisers for Hamilton's pride, I wish I could say I expected better from them. I think next time I'm the steel town I might have to look up some old contacts from the NDP and see if I can enlighten some people.
