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The Merged Maher Arar Thread

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Has anyone proved he was tortured??..........or do we just take his word and pay?

I'm afraid the young man put himself in a wrong place/wrong time situation with his mouth/attitude and found out that sometimes the Piper deals from a 'funny' deck.

How the RCMP falsifying info = wrong place/wrong time is odd to me.

If mouth and attitude leads to being jailed, I'm afraid there are lots who post here who would find themselves @$$ up/face down in a jail cell somewhere.

potato
 
3rd,
You so eloquently write out the story as it occured...
you so conveniently forget THE major issue at hand (I'll insert it for you):
3rd Horseman said:
It was the US that detained him once he returned not us. The RCMP, having nothing to charge this individual with based on his previous un-cooperative conduct; therefore provided the US authorities with falsified information and 'facts', indicating to the US to that he was involved with terrorism. It was then that the US that sent him to Syria not us.

No doubt some skulduggery was about when he was sent and the RCMP probably could have prevented it once that instance had occurred.
Some skulduggery? RCMP probably could have prevented it? They caused it!! By their skullduggery!! They've admitted it; their head has know fallen on his sword because of it.

Now let's have the investigation and the coorperation by the RCMP to get to the bottom of it and find out who was directly responsible for it.  At least they won't be deported, to possible torture, if they don't cooperate.
 
Even if this is investigated. Never will there be charges brought against the individuals. Never in the history of the RCMP High Officials did anyone get charged for illegal activities comminted. Example. In the 1970's the RCMP burnt barns and committed other illegal activities in order to destabilize the PQ and no one got anything for that.
 
schart28 said:
Example. In the 1970's the RCMP burnt barns and committed other illegal activities in order to destabilize the PQ and no one got anything for that.

Sources?
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Has anyone proved he was tortured??..........or do we just take his word and pay?

I'm afraid the young man put himself in a wrong place/wrong time situation with his mouth/attitude and found out that sometimes the Piper deals from a 'funny' deck.

Bruce, whether or not he was actually tortured really has no bearing on whether or not we should pay. He was wrongfully detained and deported (by the US) based on willfully false information provided by the RCMP. They've already admitted their direct role in that. Whether or not he was tortured once he was deported does not excuse or validate the RCMPs wrong-doing in this incident.
 
spud said:
How an RCMP commissioner resigning is "his" pound of flesh I'll never know. That would only be about an ounce to me.

The dude was detained and tortured on false evidence provided by our government and then hung out to dry.

The RCMP has apologized. Parliament has apologized. He's asking for 39 million apologies, preferably by cheque. I Don't blame him a bit.

Absolutely, and he deserves every cent of it. Some have asked for proof of his torture yet our government does not question his claims of torture anymore and have accepted it as fact.

Edit for clarity.
 
It was actually talked about today "Le Grand Journal with Normand Lester, TQS. The documentary Ive seen concerning the October Crises in 1970, talked about it. Norman Lester, Michel Chartrand, Gerald Larose has numerously talked about that.


Michael O'Leary said:
 
Michael O'Leary said:

The origins of the CSIS Act may be found in the 1981 report of the Commission of Inquiry Concerning Certain Activities of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (the "McDonald Commission"). That Commission had been created in 1977 as a result of the revelation of a series of apparently illegal acts and practices carried out by the Security Service of the RCMP.

The 1970 October Crisis stunned the government, which found itself with inadequate information as to the nature and scope of Quebec separatism. The government requested the RCMP to undertake a "proactive" strategy in this area - to try and get advance information as to the intentions and activities of nationalist organizations and, if possible, to prevent or "counter" disruptive acts. This the Security Service proceeded to do. It embarked on an extensive campaign of intelligence-gathering, infiltration, harassment and disruption directed at virtually all stripes of nationalist sentiment in Quebec. In many circumstances, the Service committed clearly illegal acts. Three of the most spectacular examples were: the burning down of a barn to prevent a meeting of militant nationalists and American radicals; a break-in at the offices of a Montreal left-wing news agency, followed by the theft and destruction of some of their files; and a break-in and theft of the membership lists of the Parti Québécois. Operations such as these had not, the McDonald Commission found, been ordered by the government. They were generated from within the Service in response to government directions to find out more about separatism. Quite aside from being illegal, these operations showed a lack of discrimination between true threats and legitimate dissent. None had any major effect on the organizations targeted, and none brought in intelligence of much importance.

http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/CIR/8427-e.htm#B.%20Abuses



 
thanks SPUD.. I was searching the net for more concrete info. Its a well known fact.
 
Thank you spud. 

schart28, please note the following excerpt from the Conduct Guidelines:

Mike Bobbitt said:
Please qualify unconfirmed information posted here.

Providing concrete references ensures that those with no point of reference to the discussion are kept on track.
 
Michael O'Leary said:
Thank you spud. 

schart28, please note the following excerpt from the Conduct Guidelines:

Providing concrete references ensures that those with no point of reference to the discussion are kept on track.

You are most welcome!
 
Terribly sorry for this.. it was unintentional.

Michael O'Leary said:
Thank you spud. 

schart28, please note the following excerpt from the Conduct Guidelines:

Providing concrete references ensures that those with no point of reference to the discussion are kept on track.
 
schart28 said:
Its a well known fact.

Yes, it's a well known fact that some illegal activities were carry out by police at the time
to curb the separatist movement... My father was followed (wasn't even an activist),
the mother of somebody I known was tapped and arrested (was a believer in independence),
BUT well knows facts doesn't make proofs...

After all, for some people, Elvis Presley and Marylin Monroe alive, Walt Disney in a freezer,
the conspiracy to kill Lady Diana because she was pregnant are ALSO well knows facts...
 
A fact is something that is the case. It is the state of affairs reported by a true statement.
In science a fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a theory, which is a explanation of or interpretation of facts.

Ref: Wikipedia

 
schart28 said:
A fact is something that is the case. It is the state of affairs reported by a true statement.
In science a fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a theory, which is a explanation of or interpretation of facts.

Ref: Wikipedia

Does anyone else see the irony here? Anybody?
 
Well... lot of armchair detectives in here....

Mistakes were made, atonement has also been made. 

MOVE ON.

And just as a side salad to that, don't see fit to comment on the in's and out's of complex investigations until you have done one.  I'm IN the RCMP, and I'm not making comments like that.  My suggestion is unless you are Mr. Arar posting under an alias, or you are Mr. Zaccardelli doing the same, shut up.  It's not you that got deported and possibly tortured, and it's not you that just made history having to leave the top spot in the RCMP the way you did.

Mistakes are made in every job, in every walk of life.  Some are just more public than others.
 
Blackhorse7 said:
Well... lot of armchair detectives in here....

Mistakes were made, atonement has also been made. 

MOVE ON.

And just as a side salad to that, don't see fit to comment on the in's and out's of complex investigations until you have done one.  I'm IN the RCMP, and I'm not making comments like that.  My suggestion is unless you are Mr. Arar posting under an alias, or you are Mr. Zaccardelli doing the same, shut up.  It's not you that got deported and possibly tortured, and it's not you that just made history having to leave the top spot in the RCMP the way you did.

Mistakes are made in every job, in every walk of life.  Some are just more public than others.

Why are people not within their right to question, speculate or comment however they wish?

potato
 
No need to have done an investigation before, to comment on one. I'll refrain from commenting on your other comments, you may get too offended.

Blackhorse7 said:
Well... lot of armchair detectives in here....

Mistakes were made, atonement has also been made. 

MOVE ON.

And just as a side salad to that, don't see fit to comment on the in's and out's of complex investigations until you have done one.  I'm IN the RCMP, and I'm not making comments like that.  My suggestion is unless you are Mr. Arar posting under an alias, or you are Mr. Zaccardelli doing the same, shut up.  It's not you that got deported and possibly tortured, and it's not you that just made history having to leave the top spot in the RCMP the way you did.

Mistakes are made in every job, in every walk of life.  Some are just more public than others.
 
schart28

Never in the history of the RCMP did anyone get charged for illegal activities comminted. .

I don't know what you mean about this, I have read about several people in the Force who have been charged criminally! Our Professional Standards investigations are a matter of public record when criminal charges are laid.

This topic should be locked, all I hear is a lot of people talking out of their as%^s, basing what they know about the issue on some severely slighted media reporting.

Noneck
 
As per Le Grand Journal with Normand Lester, TQS. My mistake, I ve edited my initial comment and meant RCMP High Official. This is my last post on this subject.

noneck said:
schart28

Never in the history of the RCMP did anyone get charged for illegal activities comminted. .

I don't know what you mean about this, I have read about several people in the Force who have been charged criminally! Our Professional Standards investigations are a matter of public record when criminal charges are laid.

This topic should be locked, all I hear is a lot of people talking out of their as%^s, basing what they know about the issue on some severely slighted media reporting.

Noneck
 
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