The Land Operations Temperate Boots (LOTB)

[George Wallace]

While the boot allowance is a good idea, what is the solution for new recruits? Do you set aside an additional day of training during basic to bus the platoon down to the local shoe store to but their boots? If you need to stock 34 different sizes to accomodate recruits' initial issue, you lose a large chunk of savings from the implementation of a boot allowance.

Initial issue covers this.  I am not an expert on the American system, but do they not bring all their recruits in and give them an "Initial Issue" and then after they have finished Basic, they are left to purchase all their items on their own?  Next question would be: "Does this now mean the a Clothing Allowance has to be reintroduced?"

 

[MJP]

While the boot allowance is a good idea, what is the solution for new recruits? Do you set aside an additional day of training during basic to bus the platoon down to the local shoe store to but their boots? If you need to stock 34 different sizes to accomodate recruits' initial issue, you lose a large chunk of savings from the implementation of a boot allowance.

The CAF would still hold stock of boots for initial issue, resupply on operations and other cases where accessing the stores or online boot vendors is not feasiable.  Not having some is just as silly as having too much.

Initial issue covers this.  I am not an expert on the American system, but do they not bring all their recruits in and give them an "Initial Issue" and then after they have finished Basic, they are left to purchase all their items on their own?  Next question would be: "Does this now mean the a Clothing Allowance has to be reintroduced?"

No clothing allowance was for DEU.

Boots would be done similar to BTU reimbursement.

 

[George Wallace]

No clothing allowance was for DEU.

Not saying that.  I mean reintroduced to cover ALL items of clothing........OR as the BTU reimbursement for boots. 

 

[MJP]

Sure but this discussion is about boots, which like bras is usually partucular to a person.  It makes no sense at this point to worry about the rest of our clothing as most items aren't an issue that boots are

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The boot gong-show the CAF is constantly in is worthy of an entire season's episodes on The Gong Show. 

Everytime I need new LPO boots its a clusterfucked gongshow that makes me picture myself kickin' people in the 'nads.  Despite the fact I have had CF Health Svcs-ordered orthotics since 2003, I am constantly required to produce a 'chit' for my orthotics when I need boots replaced.  Do people believe fallen arches are going to reverse themselves?  Then you get people in the DSSPM world who tell you that you aren't entitled, despite your SOI and the SAM direction.  This latest round of the Gong Show, I've been trying to get my LPO boots replaced since the first of June and I am still wearing the only pair of boots I have left that fit my orthotics; a pair of worn out Magnums that have the inside portion of the heel worn away right down to the plastic insert.  I am tired of having to explain to people the words in the SAM, the SOI for RCAF/aircrew, and that planes can fly places hot AND cold, so yes I need CWWBs despite it being summertime.  Why is the tail wagging the dog?  Its a SOI for fuck sakes.  If people worried more about doing THEIR jobs as opposed to why I need the kit on my SOI to do MINE, things would be much better. 

The word CLUSTERFUCK does not adequately cover how bad the CAF boot 'situation' is. 

 

[BinRat55]

Tryin to please 100,000 people ain't easy!

 

[daftandbarmy]

The boot gong-show the CAF is constantly in is worthy of an entire season's episodes on The Gong Show. 

Everytime I need new LPO boots its a clusterfucked gongshow that makes me picture myself kickin' people in the 'nads.  Despite the fact I have had CF Health Svcs-ordered orthotics since 2003, I am constantly required to produce a 'chit' for my orthotics when I need boots replaced.  Do people believe fallen arches are going to reverse themselves?  Then you get people in the DSSPM world who tell you that you aren't entitled, despite your SOI and the SAM direction.  This latest round of the Gong Show, I've been trying to get my LPO boots replaced since the first of June and I am still wearing the only pair of boots I have left that fit my orthotics; a pair of worn out Magnums that have the inside portion of the heel worn away right down to the plastic insert.  I am tired of having to explain to people the words in the SAM, the SOI for RCAF/aircrew, and that planes can fly places hot AND cold, so yes I need CWWBs despite it being summertime.  Why is the tail wagging the dog?  Its a SOI for frig sakes.  If people worried more about doing THEIR jobs as opposed to why I need the kit on my SOI to do MINE, things would be much better. 

The word CLUSTERFUCK does not adequately cover how bad the CAF boot 'situation' is.

And you KNOW the boot situation is at critical levels when even the Air Force agrees with the Combat Arms.  ;D

 

[BinRat55]

As an aside here, when the Air Force first introduced their WWB, I got a brand new pair from Clothing and took em over to CMTT to weight them on their fancy moon scale. Over 4 pounds. I then took off my very comfortable Magnums and weighed them. just one single pound. I'm wearing freaking air on my feet!!

 

[daftandbarmy]

As an aside here, when the Air Force first introduced their WWB, I got a brand new pair from Clothing and took em over to CMTT to weight them on their fancy moon scale. Over 4 pounds. I then took off my very comfortable Magnums and weighed them. just one single pound. I'm wearing freaking air on my feet!!

For all their faults, I have worn the CWWB quite comfortably while snowshoeing in -25C and deep snow.

I don't have Magnums but assume they aren't designed for that?

 

[BinRat55]

For all their faults, I have worn the CWWB quite comfortably while snowshoeing in -25C and deep snow.

I don't have Magnums but assume they aren't designed for that?

I can't offer a comparison as I have not worn the CWWB in any climate, however I have worn them (my Magnums) in the hottest place on earth quite comfortably and arguably one of the top twenty coldest placed on earth (Goose Bay Labrador) ... ON a LOSV, on a frozen pond in -50 bitterness - also quite comfortable.

I have put these things through hell and they have treated me well.

 

[dimsum]

I can't offer a comparison as I have not worn the CWWB in any climate, however I have worn them (my Magnums) in the hottest place on earth quite comfortably and arguably one of the top twenty coldest placed on earth (Goose Bay Labrador) ... ON a LOSV, on a frozen pond in -50 bitterness - also quite comfortable.

I have put these things through hell and they have treated me well.

You're a poet but you're not sure? 

I agree - I got LPO'd Magnums years ago and those things are amazing.  I'm not looking forward to the tan safety-toed boots I'll need to get soon.

 

[McG]

For all their faults, I have worn the CWWB quite comfortably while snowshoeing in -25C and deep snow.

Pedantic point, but: the Army never had a CWWB.  The Air Force had a CWWB while the Army only ever had a WWB.

 

[BinRat55]

Yea, that's what I said... just omitted the "C" part... see quote below...

As an aside here, when the Air Force first introduced their WWB, ...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Tryin to please 100,000 people ain't easy!

I know, but we are victims of our own policy and people who are supposed to be on the same team are shootin' the puck in different nets sometimes.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

For all their faults, I have worn the CWWB quite comfortably while snowshoeing in -25C and deep snow.

I don't have Magnums but assume they aren't designed for that?

The Air Force CWWBs have lots of steel in them, and are far LESS comfortable than the Army CWWBs (I've worn both).

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You're a poet but you're not sure? 

I agree - I got LPO'd Magnums years ago and those things are amazing.  I'm not looking forward to the tan safety-toed boots I'll need to get soon.

If things go well, you won't get those meat-grinders.  I think there is discussion at the Div now, but I know the recommendation on the UCRs from theatre were to add the army hot weather boot to the SOI for IMPACT aircrew (2 pr ea).  Tic toc.

FWIW, I know of more than one person who's feet were wrecked by those just by walking from their car into the Hornell center.  rly: 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There's a fairly detailed article in this 2008 issue of Flight Comment on the boots the RCAF got from the CEMS project if anyone is really bored.

 

[Loachman]

The CWWB is the absolute worst boot that I ever wore - maybe there are worse out there that I missed.

Aside from foot pain (top of each foot), they - well, the right one, actually - almost made me crash my van. The soles were so wide that, when braking at a stop sign, I caught the accelerator and surged through the stop sign.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So the "don't like these on pedals" comments are valid then.

I know of more than 1 person who has used this alternative solution either with, or without, a nice piece of paper from the Flt Srgn.

While that works, it should never come to that point.  Personally I refuse to buy my own boots anymore. 

 

[BinRat55]

So the "don't like these on pedals" comments are valid then.

I know of more than 1 person who has used this alternative solution either with, or without, a nice piece of paper from the Flt Srgn.

While that works, it should never come to that point.  Personally I refuse to buy my own boots anymore.

A newer sexier army... can I say that?