The Great Gun Control Debate

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm sure Kat probably has one or two four legged friends that may have something to say about that. ;D

 

[Halifax Tar]

I don't own any restricteds, due to me being a thousand miles from anywhere I can shoot them. I'm thinking that very soon a semi auto SKS with a five round mag, or my ten round tube fed .22, will be on the same level as a dirty bomb or sarin on the scale of scary scary stuff. So until the pendulum swings back again, maybe the best place for them to be is in the ground, for their sake and mine. Or maybe I'm just making up stories, who knows, right constables? 

Fellow SKS owner here.  I actually met a Fudd at my unit yesterday.  He didn't know why anyone needs an SKSs.  He also didn't know they were non-restricted and probably just about the cheapest to buy; and run, semi-auto deer rifle out there.

In the last few weeks I have met a few firearms owners who are awfully ignorant of our laws.  One told me All guns could only hold four rounds, and another tried to tell me the two classifications of firearms were restricted and prohibited, this last guy touts himself as an expert in hunting and firearms too.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Fellow SKS owner here.  I actually met a Fudd at my unit yesterday.  He didn't know why anyone needs an SKSs.  He also didn't know they were non-restricted and probably just about the cheapest to buy; and run, semi-auto deer rifle out there.

In the last few weeks I have met a few firearms owners who are awfully ignorant of our laws.  One told me All guns could only hold four rounds, and another tried to tell me the two classifications of firearms were restricted and prohibited, this last guy touts himself as an expert in hunting and firearms too.

Yet they are still more cognizant of gun laws than your average non firearm owner/taxpayer.

Non-Restricted;
Restricted; and,
Prohibited. Within the Prohibited list are various prohibited classes.
s.12(2): full automatics
s.12(3): converted automatics
s.12(4): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 12
s.12(5): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 13
s.12(6): handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition. On licences issued on or after April 10, 2005, these firearms will be referred to as 12(6.1) firearms.

 

[NavyShooter]

And 12(7) - a pre-1945 12(6) firearm that has been inherited by a direct descendant of the original 12(6) owner.

 

[NavyShooter]

Oh yeah, and NONE of us know why there isn't a Class 12(1)....it's just not there for some reason.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And 12(7) - a pre-1945 12(6) firearm that has been inherited by a direct descendant of the original 12(6) owner.

That'll be my daughter.

 

[Jarnhamar]

AR15s don't appear to be that popular in mass shootings in Canada.

Looking at the last 10 mass murders:

Quebec City mosque shooting January 29, 2017 - 6 dead  CZ 858 Rifle and pistol.
Scarborough 25 August 2016 - 3 dead Crossbow
La Loche January 22, 2016 - 4 dead shotgun
Edmonton December 29, 2014, 8 dead pistol
Moncton RCMP shooting June 4, 2014 - 3 dead M305 rifle and shotgun
Calgary April 14, 2014 - 5 dead knife
Les Racines de vie Montessori April 5, 2013, 2 dead shotgun
Scarborough Block Party July 16, 2012 - 2 dead believe it was a pistol
Claresholm highway massacre December 15, 2011 - 4 dead no weapon mentioned
Dawson College shooting  September 13, 2006 - 2 dead Cx4 Storm and Glock 21 Pistol

No AR15s were present in the last 10 mass murders.  Is it because they're restricted? 
4 out of 10 events had a pistol present which are restricted.
2 out of 10 weren't firearms.
3 out of 10 had a shotgun present.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Goodale is not interested in Canadian numbers or explanations. He's admitted last week that the shooting in the States is what moved him to action. Different country, different politics, different laws, heck, different mindset. Canada would not give him the incident he wanted to trigger this with, so they used foreign data instead. However, it was good enough for Butts,Trudeau and Goodale to design their own laws based on foreign incidents. The back bench MPs were never consulted. The gazillion dollar symposium Goodale just held, included all the anti gun people, cops, doctors, educators and everyone who wants total confiscation, but nobody identified from the gun lobby. That's fair, right? With no discussion, even within their own party, it's pretty obvious that the new rules were designed by three people, sitting around a table. Trudeau the boss and Goodale and Butts. None of them experts, but they know what they don't like and these three alone will decide our gun laws. The rest of the party is scared what these three will roll out because even they don't know what's in the legislation. They'll get a look at the plan when everyone else does and will have a whipped vote after the LIEbrals fast track it and end debate on the motion. Many rural, liebral MP's are going to get voted out over this one issue, come the election.

This is not how our government works. This is what a communist troika looks and acts like. Three people who will decide the direction of the law and penalties, without consent of anyone else. I don't like a lot of our firearms laws, but as a citizen, I go along with them because as slanted as they are they had the input of the country and that's democracy. Will I parse them to find advantage over the people that wrote and enforce them? Absolutely. However, when three people alone decide what is good and bad for us, that's unacceptable. The vote itself won't count as democratic because it'll be whipped. I won't bow to any dictator, especially in my own country, however long we have left as a free society.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

AR15s don't appear to be that popular in mass shootings in Canada.

Looking at the last 10 mass murders:

Quebec City mosque shooting January 29, 2017 - 6 dead  CZ 858 Rifle and pistol.
Scarborough 25 August 2016 - 3 dead Crossbow
La Loche January 22, 2016 - 4 dead shotgun
Ddmonton December 29, 2014, 8 dead pistol
Moncton RCMP shooting June 4, 2014 - 3 dead M305 rifle and shotgun
Calgary April 14, 2014 - 5 dead knife
Les Racines de vie Montessori April 5, 2013, 2 dead shotgun
Scarborough Block Party July 16, 2012 - 2 dead believe it was a pistol
Claresholm highway massacre December 15, 2011 - 4 dead no weapon mentioned
Dawson College shooting  September 13, 2006 - 2 dead Cx4 Storm and Glock 21 Pistol

No AR15s were present in the last 10 mass murders.  Is it because they're restricted? 
4 out of 10 events had a pistol present which are restricted.
2 out of 10 weren't firearms.
3 out of 10 had a shotgun present.

How dare you trot out facts during a hysterical discussion. You left out dynamite.

 

[muskrat89]

You left out dynamite.

Which (I know its a different thread) - still holds the record for the deadliest school attack in US History

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Which (I know its a different thread) - still holds the record for the deadliest school attack in US History

Unfortunately, there are more than a few. Canada also.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Goodale is not interested in Canadian numbers or explanations. He's admitted last week that the shooting in the States is what moved him to action. Different country, different politics, different laws, heck, different mindset. Canada would not give him the incident he wanted to trigger this with, so they used foreign data instead. However, it was good enough for Butts,Trudeau and Goodale to design their own laws based on foreign incidents. The back bench MPs were never consulted. The gazillion dollar symposium Goodale just held, included all the anti gun people, cops, doctors, educators and everyone who wants total confiscation, but nobody identified from the gun lobby. That's fair, right? With no discussion, even within their own party, it's pretty obvious that the new rules were designed by three people, sitting around a table. Trudeau the boss and Goodale and Butts. None of them experts, but they know what they don't like and these three alone will decide our gun laws. The rest of the party is scared what these three will roll out because even they don't know what's in the legislation. They'll get a look at the plan when everyone else does and will have a whipped vote after the LIEbrals fast track it and end debate on the motion. Many rural, liebral MP's are going to get voted out over this one issue, come the election.

This is not how our government works. This is what a communist troika looks and acts like. Three people who will decide the direction of the law and penalties, without consent of anyone else. I don't like a lot of our firearms laws, but as a citizen, I go along with them because as slanted as they are they had the input of the country and that's democracy. Will I parse them to find advantage over the people that wrote and enforce them? Absolutely. However, when three people alone decide what is good and bad for us, that's unacceptable. The vote itself won't count as democratic because it'll be whipped. I won't bow to any dictator, especially in my own country, however long we have left as a free society.

I think the Libs are actually a little nervous.  The great sun king has been a major flop and made the party and country look terrible all over the world, last polls I saw put the Cons ahead of the Libs now.  So they need something most Canadians can get behind, GUN CONTROL, then a shooting happened on the same planet.  Bingo-Bango whip up some manufactured fear and pass a law.  Then tell the Nation how effective you are.  The sheeple will be impressed.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Goodale is not interested in Canadian numbers or explanations. He's admitted last week that the shooting in the States is what moved him to action. Different country, different politics, different laws, heck, different mindset. Canada would not give him the incident he wanted to trigger this with, so they used foreign data instead. However, it was good enough for Butts,Trudeau and Goodale to design their own laws based on foreign incidents. The back bench MPs were never consulted. The gazillion dollar symposium Goodale just held, included all the anti gun people, cops, doctors, educators and everyone who wants total confiscation, but nobody identified from the gun lobby. That's fair, right? With no discussion, even within their own party, it's pretty obvious that the new rules were designed by three people, sitting around a table. Trudeau the boss and Goodale and Butts. None of them experts, but they know what they don't like and these three alone will decide our gun laws. The rest of the party is scared what these three will roll out because even they don't know what's in the legislation. They'll get a look at the plan when everyone else does and will have a whipped vote after the LIEbrals fast track it and end debate on the motion. Many rural, liebral MP's are going to get voted out over this one issue, come the election.

This is not how our government works. This is what a communist troika looks and acts like. Three people who will decide the direction of the law and penalties, without consent of anyone else. I don't like a lot of our firearms laws, but as a citizen, I go along with them because as slanted as they are they had the input of the country and that's democracy. Will I parse them to find advantage over the people that wrote and enforce them? Absolutely. However, when three people alone decide what is good and bad for us, that's unacceptable. The vote itself won't count as democratic because it'll be whipped. I won't bow to any dictator, especially in my own country, however long we have left as a free society.

My reddit forum reading says there were people from CCFR(?) and another gun friendly group there. I am not sure what their participation was but do recall seeing that they went.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My reddit forum reading says there were people from CCFR(?) and another gun friendly group there. I am not sure what their participation was but do recall seeing that they went.

I couldn't find anything when I posted. Last time they included us they picked from skeet and trap fudds that don't use centrefire rifles and pistols and many are quite outspoken about banning them. So not really in our interest, but satisfies them that they asked gun owners for attendance.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I couldn't find anything when I posted. Last time they included us they picked from skeet and trap fudds that don't use centrefire rifles and pistols and many are quite outspoken about banning them. So not really in our interest, but satisfies them that they asked gun owners for attendance.

I think that's the feeling I got from the post that mentioned them. One of the problems in Canada is all the different types of gun owners. You have the guy that has zero combat experience suggesting open carry is a great idea then the next guy that is happy with taking his rifles to a range but wants to add the AR to that list. Others think the guvment is against them all and that they'll take their guns away, a message that's been passed on for 20+ years.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Well we sorta already do have open carry and conceal carry. One will just get every cop in the city called on you and the other will cost $100 to apply for and the CFO will say no, and keep your money  ;D

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Well we sorta already do have open carry and conceal carry. One will just get every cop in the city called on you and the other will cost $100 to apply for and the CFO will say no, and keep your money  ;D

Yeah, those are good points. The amount of people that think they know the laws vs people that do (I had to explain to a local Calgary police officer how legal it was for the guy to have a C8 in his vehicle was after the cop had his rifle stolen) is scary.

 

[Furniture]

I think that's the feeling I got from the post that mentioned them. One of the problems in Canada is all the different types of gun owners. You have the guy that has zero combat experience suggesting open carry is a great idea then the next guy that is happy with taking his rifles to a range but wants to add the AR to that list. Others think the guvment is against them all and that they'll take their guns away, a message that's been passed on for 20+ years.

It's sad that so many in the gun owners in Canada seem to hate one gun org or another. Nothing I have seen from CCFR indicates in any way that they are "fudds", they are very pro black rifle and pistols really.

I also fail to see what open carry and combat experience have in common...

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Yeah, I am obviously not open carry friendly. I see people suggesting it as a great thing but then realise how many of those people don't have constant weapon handling drills that would make them safe. Combat experience wasn't the good term to use.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If they meet the RCMP standard for pistol, why not?

I'm pretty sure that if open or concealed become a reality the shooting aspect will be pretty intense. I believe, more will fail than pass anyway.