The Great Gun Control Debate

[Fishbone Jones]

I believe you now have to have it when you apply to CBSA. No PAL no job.

 

[Haggis]

I believe you now have to have it when you apply to CBSA. No PAL no job.

Not just a PAL, but an RPAL.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not just a PAL, but an RPAL.

Just to clarify somewhat. We all call it an RPAL, but that's just something everyone does to define their situation a bit better. In actuality, there is only a PAL. RPAL refers to a PAL with 'restricted' as a condition on the back. Much the same as I don't also have a PPAL with 'prohibited' as a condition. I have a single PAL with non restricted, restricted and prohibited on the back. The front, on all PALs is the same,  'Firearms Licence - POSSESSION * ACQUISITION". Nothing about class.

So, to join CBSA now, you need a PAL with 'restricted' listed as a requirement.

No idea what a 'collectors' looks like or is called. I don't know any 'collectors'  ;D

 

[Haggis]

Just to clarify somewhat. We all call it an RPAL, but that's just something everyone does to define their situation a bit better. In actuality, there is only a PAL. RPAL refers to a PAL with 'restricted' as a condition on the back. Much the same as I don't also have a PPAL with 'prohibited' as a condition. I have a single PAL with non restricted, restricted and prohibited on the back. The front, on all PALs is the same,  'Firearms Licence - POSSESSION * ACQUISITION". Nothing about class.

You are, in a very detailed way, correct, Recceguy. My answer was quite simplistic.

So, to join CBSA now, you need a PAL with 'restricted' listed as a requirement.

Yes.  From the CBSA website:

"Applicants must meet these three basic requirements before they apply to the officer trainee (developmental) position:
- A secondary school education.
- Successful completion of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course (CRFSC) and pass the tests. Please visit the Canadian Firearms Program website for further information.
- Possess and maintain a valid driver's license that allows the holder to drive a motor vehicle in Canada.

Applicants are responsible for meeting all of these requirements on their own time and at their own expense. If an individual chooses to apply, they will be required to submit proof (original document and one (1) copy) at any time during the selection that they met these requirements when they applied. Again, this proof could be requested at any time during the selection process."

 

[Loachman]

No idea what a 'collectors' looks like or is called. I don't know any 'collectors'

No difference.

 

[Lumber]

So, to join CBSA now, you need a PAL with 'restricted' listed as a requirement.

"Applicants must meet these three basic requirements before they apply to the officer trainee (developmental) position:
- A secondary school education.
- Successful completion of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course (CRFSC) and pass the tests. Please visit the Canadian Firearms Program website for further information.
- Possess and maintain a valid driver's license that allows the holder to drive a motor vehicle in Canada.

The quote by Haggis seems to contradict (somewhat) the quote by recceguy. Completing the CFSC and CRFSC does not automatically reward you with a PAL; you still have to apply for it, with your certificates as proof of completing the training.

So, if someone took the courses, and got their certificates, but did not bother to apply for a PAL, then it would appear, based on the CBSA website, they would have met the requirements for application. So, actually, you don't need a PAL to apply for CBSA?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

No difference.

It used to be a collector could not take his guns to the range and a shooter could not be a "collector". Whoever dreamed that up was on drugs or purposely trying to screw the gun owners. Personally I suspect both.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not really Colin.

The general theory is that a collector's purpose is to display his/her firearms and therefore, they have to be near permanently disabled. A 'collector" who simply wishes to accumulate a large number of weapons and simply keep them in working order then stashed away like regular weapons IS a shooter, not a collector.

 

[Jarnhamar]

.

Looks like the NFA stole a membership list from the CPC and started sending letters to CPC members.
Real class act them.

https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/tories-up-in-arms-after-pro-gun-group-obtains-conservative-party-membership-list/amp

OTTAWA — The Conservative party is demanding that the National Firearms Association destroy a party membership list that it appears to have illicitly obtained from one of the camps in the recent leadership contest.

“We are aware that our members are being contacted by an outside organization,” the party said Friday in a Facebook post.

“We will be issuing a cease-and-desist letter to the organization in question, demanding that they destroy the list.”


Party spokesman Cory Hann later confirmed that the organization is the National Firearms Association.

The party’s move came after numerous Conservatives complained through social media that they’d received a letter this week from the NFA, seeking a donation.

They suspected that the association had obtained their names and addresses from the party membership list, distributed to each of the 14 candidates during the leadership race, which concluded last weekend with the election of Andrew Scheer.

 

[Lightguns]

.

Looks like the NFA stole a membership list from the CPC and started sending letters to CPC members.
Real class act them.

https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/tories-up-in-arms-after-pro-gun-group-obtains-conservative-party-membership-list/amp

Yes, and they started the usual round of deleting comments and banning paid up members from their social media sites.  Pretty much the Sheldon Clare and friends gun club........

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Likely they were given the list by someone in the party, stealing would infer some sort of illicit action on their part.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Likely they were given the list by someone in the party, stealing would infer some sort of illicit action on their part.

At the very least I would suggest it's highly unethical. If the CPC party is giving away members personal information to dubious  groups like the NFA who else are they giving, or selling it to?
If I get home and I have a nfa letter waiting for me ill be pretty pissed.

 

[Lightguns]

Likely they were given the list by someone in the party, stealing would infer some sort of illicit action on their part.

It's been traced to one leader campaign and the party has given that candidate a choice of losing his deposit or offending up the offending staff member.  Wait and see right now. 

 

[Lightguns]

At the very least I would suggest it's highly unethical. If the CPC party is giving away members personal information to dubious  groups like the NFA who else are they giving, or selling it to?
If I get home and I have a nfa letter waiting for me ill be pretty pissed.

You sound like the crowd on Gunnutz.  The party did not do anything, one leader campaign staff member did something and it has been traced to that campaign.  The party set the rules and a campaign staff broke them.  There will be a disciplinary action taken.  AND it was not the campaign that had the lobbyist for the NFA working for it. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

You sound like the crowd on Gunnutz.  The party did not do anything, one leader campaign staff member did something and it has been traced to that campaign.  The party set the rules and a campaign staff broke them.  There will be a disciplinary action taken.  AND it was not the campaign that had the lobbyist for the NFA working for it.

Which campaign was it?

 

[Lightguns]

They have not release which one but the only one to feature an NFA member has publically denied it. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not really Colin.

The general theory is that a collector's purpose is to display his/her firearms and therefore, they have to be near permanently disabled. A 'collector" who simply wishes to accumulate a large number of weapons and simply keep them in working order then stashed away like regular weapons IS a shooter, not a collector.

At the time a collector could not have a standing ATT to take his guns to the range, as shooting them was not considered part of "collecting". I remember looking at both when I applied and being a "collector" meant your life would be miserable as for as gun ownership.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They have not release which one but the only one to feature an NFA member has publically denied it.

Convenient they didn't release who's responsible.
Maybe a "mistakes were made, the member feels horrible, let's move forward with bashing the liberals and paying lip service to firearm reforms" statement soon.

I believe it was O'Toole's group that was involved with the NFA lobbyist right?

In any case I don't see this as being something the Conservatives can just fluff off, I'm going to my MP to demand some answers.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Jeez Jarn, let the process work. I'm a little pissed also, having received a letter to join, even though I'm already a member but I'm not running down the hallway screaming like Joe McCarthy after a communist actor.

The CPC has already taken action. This stuff happens to every party. There is always ongoing investigations into leaks, especially to the MSM.

You're doing just what the liebrals want people to do, creating a mountain out of a molehill. Every time you make a purchase on the internet, sign up on a website or just browse with Google, Bing or any of the other major search engines (I use DuckDuckGo, they don't track your searches or choices.), you are giving more information to unknown sources than the NFA got from you through the list. At least, in this case, you know who had it and you know who got it.

I'm not blowing off privacy issues, but let's be realistic about the situation shall we?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm not so sure my friend

Personal information in the form of names, email address and worst of all home addresses were given out to an organization that pulls some real shady shit.  From failed back door deals attempts with the government to censoring their paying members to harassing people both online and in the work place, and more.  Numerous cases of them doxxing people.

The fact that your personal information is never 100% secure online doesn't mitigate the seriousness of what happened. My address being given to someone I consider crooks isn't a mole hill to me.

If the liberals were responsible for your home address being sent to a third party I'm willing to bet you would be considerably more angry.

Of course I may also be biased due to my heavy distrust of the nfa but still think it's quite serious.