The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Kirkhill]

There must be a wheen o' a lot o' Cameronians in Indiana

IN lawmakers OK guns in schools when building is used by, or attached to, a house of worship


APRIL 25, 2019 DAN CARDEN - THE TIMES

Hoosier lawmakers gave final approval Monday to pro-gun legislation just days before the National Rifle Association hosts some 80,000 gun rights advocates, including President Donald Trump, in Indiana’s capital city for the NRA’s national convention.

House Enrolled Act 1284 opens the door for more Hoosiers to carry guns in school buildings where guns generally are forbidden except by special permission of local authorities.

Under the plan, which would take effect July 1, any person legally authorized to carry a firearm may possess it in a school building when the building is being used by a church or other house of worship.

Similarly, a gun owner could bring his or her weapon into any church or religious building that’s connected to a school, so long as the religious institution permits guns within its facilities.

Supporters of the measure said churches that believe their members should be free to carry guns while worshiping shouldn’t have that right denied just because the church holds services in a school building, or because the sanctuary is connected to a school.

On the other hand, state Sen. Greg Taylor, D-Indianapolis, who opposed the measure, said, “I can’t believe that we’re going to have people sitting in church, with firearms, expecting to defend the entire church.”

However, the legislation also provides that if a Hoosier uses a gun in self-defense — whether at a church, school, home or anywhere else — the shooter cannot be sued for civil damages if the person shot was committing a forcible felony or causing serious bodily injury to another person.

The proposal’s immunity against civil damages even applies to lawsuits filed by any surviving relative or the estate of the person injured or killed by a gun owner acting in self-defense.

In addition, the measure makes Indiana’s four-year handgun carry license into a five-year license, and eliminates the $10 application fee and $5 license fee for a five-year license, starting July 1, 2020.

It passed the Republican-controlled House, 64-17, and the Republican-controlled Senate, 37-7, and now goes to Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb to likely be signed into law.

———

© 2019 The Times (Munster, Ind.)

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/04/in-lawmakers-ok-guns-in-schools-when-building-is-used-by-or-attached-to-a-house-of-worship/?utm_campaign=alt&utm_source=amn&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3YCBtnv_VGZIbyDJIA5bD0kt1DLCeuX7ydVHh4jb6MdeoxSmX1bEUFweI

Sunday 15th of May is Cameronian Sunday, the nearest to the 14th of May on which the regiment was both raised (1689) and disbanded (1968).

As ever the services are held in the village of Douglas South Lanarkshire, home of the legendary Douglas family who raised the regiment in Covenanting Times.

The day starts at 9 30 am with the raising of the regimental flag, 10 am church service at St Brides Church, 2 pm service at the memorial cairn in the form of a Cameronian Conventicle, piquets at four points of the compass and the all clear given to Minister of no enemy in sight, the service, sermon and hymn proceeds.

"No enemy in sight!"

 

[Haggis]

Interesting. Thanks.

Last week, gun rights advocate and researcher Dennis R. Young received a final reply to an ATIP request for the number of Authorizations to Carry in Canada.  In their initial reply, the RCMP refused to disclose the number of ATCs issued for "protection of life" (e.g. concealed carry) saying that to do so could pose a risk to those persons.  Mr. Young complained to the Information Commissioner.  As a result, the RCMP revised their reply and now state that the number of ATC in Canada specifically for protection of life is ONE.

Speculation is rampant on social media as to who "The ONE" is. 

 

[Journeyman]

Last week, gun rights advocate and researcher Dennis R. Young received a final reply to an ATIP request for the number of Authorizations to Carry in Canada.  In their initial reply, the RCMP refused to disclose the number of ATCs issued for "protection of life" (e.g. concealed carry) saying that to do so could pose a risk to those persons.  Mr. Young complained to the Information Commissioner.  As a result, the RCMP revised their reply and now state that the number of ATC in Canada specifically for protection of life is ONE.

Speculation is rampant on social media as to who "The ONE" is.

Well, we know from Kevin Vickers in 2014 that the Parliamentary Sergeant-at-Arms is armed.

 

[Haggis]

Well, we know from Kevin Vickers in 2014 that the Parliamentary Sergeant-at-Arms is armed.

Likely as a consequence of his employment along with 6687 other Canadians (armed guards, couriers etc.). The claimed one (1) ATC for protection of life is probably not him as he's been OUTCAN for a few years and his ATC would have been cancelled/revoked as a result.

 

[Journeyman]

Likely as a consequence of his employment along with 6687 other Canadians (armed guards, couriers etc.). The claimed one (1) ATC for protection of life is probably not him as he's been OUTCAN for a few years and his ATC would have been cancelled/revoked as a result.

I was referring to the position, rather than the individual, in that the concealed carry was a generally unknown aspect (unlike armed guards, etc, who are open carry).

I fully acknowledge that it was merely a guess.  :dunno:

 

[mariomike]

As a result, the RCMP revised their reply and now state that the number of ATC in Canada specifically for protection of life is ONE.

Speculation is rampant on social media as to who "The ONE" is.

Norm Gardner used to carry. Not sure if he still does? Must be in his 80's by now.

Oops. Apparently not,

"This week Gardner said he’s no longer permitted to carry a gun."
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2014/01/31/former_pistolpacking_politician_norm_gardner_aims_for_mayor_rob_fords_job.html

 

[Haggis]

I was referring to the position, rather than the individual, in that the concealed carry was a generally unknown aspect (unlike armed guards, etc, who are open carry).

I fully acknowledge that it was merely a guess.  :dunno:

And it was a good guess.  My understanding of how events unfolded was that Mr. Vickers was not carrying at the time of the incident but had to return to his office to retrieve his firearm from secure storage.

 

[mariomike]

From what I understand, years ago, an armoured truck company had an armed plain-clothes member.

I remember a friend of mine who owned an auto repair business who carried a gun. Not sure if he had a permit.

My understanding of how events unfolded was that Mr. Vickers was not carrying at the time of the incident but had to return to his office to retrieve his firearm from secure storage.

Sounds similar to the bank managers, years ago. As long as the gun stayed on the property. That came to an end when a bullet fired by a manager during a robbery ricocheted and killed a teller.

Race tracks had armed plain clothes men as well. Not sure if they still do?

 

[Haggis]

From what I understand, years ago, an armoured truck company had an armed plain-clothes member.....
Race tracks had armed plain clothes men as well. Not sure if they still do?

That would be an ATC for employment, quite different from an ATC for protection of life.

 

[Jarnhamar]

25 counts of attemoted murder, drive by shooting and organized crime related offenses? Recipe for a plea bargain for sure.


Plea deals made for 3 Calgary gangsters involved in gun violence
Tarek El-Rafie and brothers Barakat and Talal Amer originally faced a total of 25 attempted murder charges
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-gangsters-amer-el-rafie-guilty-pleas-sentence-1.5125325
Three Calgary men involved in gun violence connected to a 2015 gang war on city streets have been sent to prison after plea deals meant most of their charges were withdrawn.

The three men — Tarek El-Rafie and brothers Barakat and Talal Amer — originally faced a total of 25 attempted murder charges as well as organized crime-related offences.

Plea deals were arranged between prosecutor Brian Holtby and defence lawyers Brian Greenspan, Brian Beresh and Kent Teskey.

Tarek El-Rafie pleaded guilty to one count of recklessly discharge of a restricted firearm and received a six year, four month sentence of which he has just over two years left to serve.

El-Rafie admitted to his involvement in a November 2015 drive-by shooting in the city's northeast, according to an agreed statement of facts.

 

[Haggis]

I don't usually quote Reddit but I''ve now seen this same assertion from at least two other source including Tony Clement's own Twitter page. 

Today during question period Independent MP Tony Clement is said to have asked the following question.

Tony Clement: "...I have it on good authority that the PM has a secret plan to ban legal firearms. Apparently this plan is to be executed by cabinet directive with no debate in parliament. The PM plans to announce this gun ban at the Women Deliver conference held in early June in Vancouver where New Zealand PM Ardern will also attend. Can the PM confirm or deny this zero-accountability secret plan?"

Bill Blair: "I just want to assure this house that our government remains absolutely committed to taking all the measures that are effective in keeping Canadians safe and as I believe every member of this house will agree, there is no greater responsibility for any order of government..."

I have been saying it for months... this is how the Liberals will ban firearms in Canada.  No debate. No consideration of studies that don't fit their agenda.  Just an OIC.  Boom.  Done. Just like New Zealand.  No grandfathering, just confiscation.

I suspect the timelines to surrender our firearms will be very short and the penalties for non compliance quite harsh to get as many firearms seized and destroyed as possible before the election.

 

[Stoker]

I don't usually quote Reddit but I''ve now seen this same assertion from at least two other source including Tony Clement's own Twitter page. 

Today during question period Independent MP Tony Clement is said to have asked the following question.

Tony Clement: "...I have it on good authority that the PM has a secret plan to ban legal firearms. Apparently this plan is to be executed by cabinet directive with no debate in parliament. The PM plans to announce this gun ban at the Women Deliver conference held in early June in Vancouver where New Zealand PM Ardern will also attend. Can the PM confirm or deny this zero-accountability secret plan?"

Bill Blair: "I just want to assure this house that our government remains absolutely committed to taking all the measures that are effective in keeping Canadians safe and as I believe every member of this house will agree, there is no greater responsibility for any order of government..."

I have been saying it for months... this is how the Liberals will ban firearms in Canada.  No debate. No consideration of studies that don't fit their agenda.  Just an OIC.  Boom.  Done. Just like New Zealand.  No grandfathering, just confiscation.

I suspect the timelines to surrender our firearms will be very short and the penalties for non compliance quite harsh to get as many firearms seized and destroyed as possible before the election.

Prepare for massive non compliance like in NZ.

 

[ModlrMike]

Just remember, there are no property rights in Canada. Remember also who's bright idea that was.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Question period, note the response. Remember Paul Martins handgun ban, every time they suck in the polls they go this route.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=362176877975151&t=9

 

[AbdullahD]

Haggis, do we have a more reputable source for this then reddit?

It kind of seems like fear mongering from anti-government or pro-firearm crowds... it does not make a lot of sense to me. I am not saying that Trudeau would not love to ban firearms, cause god knows he would. I just do not think his people feel that the social support for it in Canada has reached a level to support such a call.

I found the post, posted from the original reddit thread showing a huffington post on it...
https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/05/09/tony-clement-secret-plan-firearms-ban_a_23723860/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

Then a bunch of firearms blogs etc... any rate will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I suspect it will be more of a "if re-elected" kind of thing.

Abdullah

 

[Sig_Des]

Just received this in my inbox. Usually don't pay much attention to Mrs. Gallant, but seems relevant.

Dear XXXX,

Today it was revealed Trudeau has a secret plan to ban all legal firearms.

It will be done by Cabinet Directive with no discussion, no debate in the house.

He plans to decree the ban at the “Woman Deliver Conference” in Vancouver BC (June 1 -3 2019).

New Zealand PM Ardern will be in attendance to offer Trudeau cover.

When the Liberal Minister responsible was asked about the plan to ban all legal firearms, he did not deny it.

As each day produces a new scandal, one more petal falls from the wilted rose of the Liberal leader.

Unpopular among more of his own party members, one Liberal MP after another announces intentions not to run for Parliament again.

Their party is desperately trying to change the channel as Canadians get closer and closer to a fall election.

The Liberals think they can manipulate the emotions of women by using sportsmen and farmers as scapegoats.

The conference is a convenient platform to attack law-abiding firearms owners, and try to make female voters, outraged over the “Kokanee Grope”, forget about it.

The conference is less than 25 days away.

That is all the time we have to fight Trudeau and the Liberal Party.

This fight is real.

We need to stop this plan now before it gets swept up in this fall’s election.

Don’t let Trudeau use you to cover up his failures.

Regards,

Cheryl Gallant

Ironically,  just as I was about to hit post on this, the CTVnews headline on the telly was "Homemade guns on the rise"

 

[Cloud Cover]

The man loves the applause of a crowd. He's got nothing else to offer them, and since he seems to think this will piss off men to please certain women, what better way than this?
Would this also be why he is not in Parliament QP?

 

[Cloud Cover]

Can't find any good news articles, but I read on CGN that Kingston City Council defeated a complete gun ban in a 7-6 vote last night. Well done!

 

[Jarnhamar]

When I was in Kingston the wait list to join the gun club (requirement to possess restricted firearms) was up to two years.

I've been told the city constantly treated the club like shit and now and then students try to shut it down but there's a lot of gun owners.

 

[Kirkhill]

Haggis, do we have a more reputable source for this then reddit?

It kind of seems like fear mongering from anti-government or pro-firearm crowds... it does not make a lot of sense to me. I am not saying that Trudeau would not love to ban firearms, cause god knows he would. I just do not think his people feel that the social support for it in Canada has reached a level to support such a call.

I found the post, posted from the original reddit thread showing a huffington post on it...
https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/05/09/tony-clement-secret-plan-firearms-ban_a_23723860/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

Then a bunch of firearms blogs etc... any rate will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I suspect it will be more of a "if re-elected" kind of thing.

Abdullah

Abdullah, see Colin P above.