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The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

KevinB said:
Mag laws are fairly pointless- it takes a fraction of a second for a criminal to drill out a rivet or remove a block.

Most state and province have mag limits for hunting. - but action sports use normal capacity mags - so you’re just punishing the shooting sports with mag laws.

Canadian Safe Storage laws are fairly ridiculous. I have a pistol in a holster on my bed stand - my carry gun that I place there when I got to bed. You can’t do that in Canada because apparently at night that gun is going to jump up, grab your car keys and commit mayhem by itself?

I agree that unattended guns should be secured - but some of the rules are just poorly thought out.
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I think the new laws are not going to accept pinned mags
 
I know more about the application of firearms than the manufacture of them.

If I wanted to kill a lot of people, using a “high capacity mag” is it really so hard to make one?
There was a time where I had to shoot an “emergency” series of shots frequently, on a specialized, but all commercial parts, Remington 700 that was all done without the mag at all. Individual rounds. We shot a pretty deadly volume at a pretty fast pace- simulating a couple emergencies. I wouldn’t want to be on the end of low capacity magazine on a motivated hunters bolt action anymore than some dude with a semi auto rifle, you’re splitting hairs in a lot of ways.

The answer is pursuing people who use guns criminally no matter the furniture on them. Any other way just makes a confusing mess of rules- in my very simple, uneducated opinion.
 
Booter said:
I know more about the application of firearms than the manufacture of them.

If I wanted to kill a lot of people, using a “high capacity mag” is it really so hard to make one?
There was a time where I had to shoot an “emergency” series of shots frequently, on a specialized, but all commercial parts, Remington 700 that was all done without the mag at all. Individual rounds. We shot a pretty deadly volume at a pretty fast pace- simulating a couple emergencies. I wouldn’t want to be on the end of low capacity magazine on a motivated hunters bolt action anymore than some dude with a semi auto rifle, you’re splitting hairs in a lot of ways.

The answer is pursuing people who use guns criminally no matter the furniture on them. Any other way just makes a confusing mess of rules- in my very simple, uneducated opinion.
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A few years ago a buddy of mine at HRT did a video using 5 rds in a mag with three mags and reloading the mags after running to slide lock and an average police response time of 3 min 50 seconds in the VA Quantico area for a Code 3 response -- he got through 27 mags if I recall correctly - that includes the from the box reload and retrieving mags -- needless to say he wants a fan of mag loads actually doing anything.
 
Navy_Pete said:
I like how there is really no middle ground here; either any idiot can buy any gun they want at any time, or you are Hitler/Mao etc.

I'm not a fan of the additional restrictions, but really no good reason that there shouldn't be some kind of licensing and limitations on buying/owning/operating them. If you look at all the things that do require a license to safely operate, it's simply irrational to not require that for guns, who only exist to kill sometime better.

Doesn't stop criminals, but really no reason someone needs an automatic weapon for hunting, and if you need a 30 round mag to hit a deer you should just learn to shoot.

I think needing to be licensed (and having tied to basic safety training) to buy guns and ammo, requiring safe storage and some other limitations are pretty reasonable. Things like cooling off periods also make sense. Personally thought our existing gun laws before some of the recent changes and these proposed restrictions were mostly pretty reasonable on the whole, with the exception of some of the fear mongering around 'assault style weapons'.
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I haven't heard anyone complaining about having to obtain a license by taking a course. I'm all for courses, testing and licensing. Training and proof are a great thing before owning a firearm. Testing is not a problem.

Talking about full auto weapons and 30 rd mags, while hunting, is a canard. A fantasy that has no place in a serious firearms discussion. Careful when you channel Biden, some people might think it's really you.

Blame trudeau for the black and white divisiveness. There's lots of middle ground and room for reasoned discussion, unless you're dealing with red and orange liberals. Then there is none. Their whole platform is to demonise firearms and owners mercilessly, without fact, only emotion.
 
I give up. My country is a embarrassment. Or properly, our current, dystopian government. If you are a licensed, anglo, caucasian you will bear the full brunt of the law. If you're a drug dealing, illegal alien, gangbanging in a shopping centre, you get a reduced sentence for being 'racialized' because of systemic discrimination. Whatever the hell that is. This moves well beyond virtue signaling and will have severe, deadly and violent consequences for large urban areas.

I'll catch flack for positing the following, but this is the same thing that blue state AG's are doing and soros funded the election of these AG's to the tune of about $40 million, this year alone. He paid to put violent criminals back on the street and the AG's are keeping the bargain. You don't need to believe me, just read the reports from the States.

Another biden/trudeau coincidence?

 
Yes, just coincidence. There's plenty of political pressure from groups which measure the number of people incarcerated and divide them up into bins according to superficial characteristics like skin colour; it's reasonable that more than one government might respond to that pressure in the same ways. (Never ascribe to conspiracy what can be abscribed to panicked expedient political self-preservation.) The experiment is being tried; let it run its course. The time taken to evolve from "defunding" through "shuffle funding" to "refunding" police, for example, was not that long. If others want to be empirical horrible warnings, let them.
 
It's not just guns Brad. Many other of their policies are aligning and faster than they used to. It seems one of them will announce and within a week or so, the other does the same.
 
It's self-organization, not conspiracy. Observation and imitation, guided by preferences.

Remember: those people cannot keep secrets, not least because they enjoy bragging aloud how clever they are. If they were co-ordinating things of which they're proud, we'd know it.
 
Colin Parkinson said:
Because actually taking all our guns then ends our usefulness as a vote pinata to be beaten on as required. then once the shooting don't stop they then might actually have to focus on the true causes of firearm violence in this country. which will be hard, messy and political dangerous.
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They shall just do what the UK does, blame knives as clearly it can’t be a individuals actions which are causing crime, it must be the object!
Navy_Pete said:
I like how there is really no middle ground here; either any idiot can buy any gun they want at any time, or you are Hitler/Mao etc.

I'm not a fan of the additional restrictions, but really no good reason that there shouldn't be some kind of licensing and limitations on buying/owning/operating them. If you look at all the things that do require a license to safely operate, it's simply irrational to not require that for guns, who only exist to kill sometime better.

Doesn't stop criminals, but really no reason someone needs an automatic weapon for hunting, and if you need a 30 round mag to hit a deer you should just learn to shoot.

I think needing to be licensed (and having tied to basic safety training) to buy guns and ammo, requiring safe storage and some other limitations are pretty reasonable. Things like cooling off periods also make sense. Personally thought our existing gun laws before some of the recent changes and these proposed restrictions were mostly pretty reasonable on the whole, with the exception of some of the fear mongering around 'assault style weapons'.
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Our gun laws have done basically nothing to keep us safer. Crime has been dropping for decades without any input from gun laws. I shall list the common laws and what actual effect they have.

Cooling off periods do nothing, if people are planning to kill someone with a firearm you really think waiting a extra day or two matters? The problem is someone intending to kill someone else, not their means. If you are dedicated enough to plan to kill someone with a gun does it matter if you get it today or a week from now?

Banning firearms by type also does nothing, again the problem is if someone is intending to kill someone else, not what firearm they possess. Be it full auto, handgun or single shot all are deadly and it isn't what the gun is rather what they intend to do with it. Up until 1978 Canadians could just buy full autos and handguns with the only restriction being they had to be registered. Yet there wasn't blood in the streets. Some of the deadliest shootings in the US have been done with a shotgun and revolver. In fact most school shootings don't take place with a AR-15, it is usually a handgun is the weapon of choice (which makes sense as it is easily concealed). They center on the long guns when they are used but, for approximately 2/3 of them they use handguns only.

Licensing is one of the only things which can make a difference as it is one of the only measures which can keep the guns out of the wrong hands. However licensing needs to be changed in this country. It should never expire, and the firearms you possess should never become illegal to possess based off a simple lapse in licensing.

Registration can actually be beneficial particularly in the case of handguns. Long guns it is useless, but for handguns it can actually hold value as it prevents straw buying for criminals (handguns being the obvious preferred choice due to concealability).

Magazine restrictions do nothing. Criminals get their hands on illegal magazines either way and all it does is create a confusing web of legislation which results in good citizens being turned into criminals. Again it isn't the size of the magazine, or the gun in the hand, rather what someone intends to do with it.

Safe storage should be a personal choice, with personal liabilities if you make the wrong one. Right now in Canada there is plenty of rural houses which keep loaded rifles or shotguns in easy reach, yet there isn't tons of kids being killed from accidental usage. It is just another way for the government to screw over good citizens based off the loose definitions used by the law. Hell they wanted to charge Mike Hargreaves with unsafe storage after his vault in the basement was broken into over the course of two days well he was in Florida.

In summary a initial license can do a lot to keep criminals from legally acquiring a firearm. Registering a handgun prevents the straw buying of handguns. Otherwise basically every law we have on the books for them don't really do much of anything other than give the government reason to go against otherwise upstanding citizens.

If we want to tackle 'gun crime' you need to target crime in general and why people are killing others. That isn't something easy, nor is it something which fits in a 4 year election cycle. Generally you need to target poverty, education, lack of opportunity, and criminals to make any sort of difference. But they won't. In fact I would argue the current government is purposely making the situation worse with the current bail laws, and actually creating the growing crime crisis we have increasing on a daily basis.
 
One thing about gradually implementing the list of less restrictive measures is that gradually the list of excuses for continued firearm violence wears out and it becomes obvious where problems really lie.
 
QV said:
www.halifaxexaminer.ca

RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki tried to 'jeopardize' mass murder investigation to advance Trudeau’s gun control efforts - Halifax Examiner

RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki “made a promise” to Public Safety Minister Bill Blair and the Prime Minister’s Office to leverage the mass murders of April 18/19, 2020 to get a gun control law passed. A week after the murders, Lucki pressured RCMP in Nova Scotia to release details of the weapons...
www.halifaxexaminer.ca www.halifaxexaminer.ca
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I think we all knew this
 
QV said:
www.halifaxexaminer.ca

RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki tried to 'jeopardize' mass murder investigation to advance Trudeau’s gun control efforts - Halifax Examiner

RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki “made a promise” to Public Safety Minister Bill Blair and the Prime Minister’s Office to leverage the mass murders of April 18/19, 2020 to get a gun control law passed. A week after the murders, Lucki pressured RCMP in Nova Scotia to release details of the weapons...
www.halifaxexaminer.ca www.halifaxexaminer.ca
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[insert expletive here] unbelievable! To add to this, I had a conversation with a senior member of the RCMP at a dinner party, who was telling everyone that Gabriel Wortman used "legal" guns in his killing spree. I challenged him on this, and he threw out the "your just a civilian without the facts" argument in an attempt to shut me up. So, it would appear the RCMP at senior levels is deliberately obfuscating the facts to support a political aim. Politics before facts seems to be the rule at the RCMP.
 
calculus said:
[insert expletive here] unbelievable! To add to this, I had a conversation with a senior member of the RCMP at a dinner party, who was telling everyone that Gabriel Wortman used "legal" guns in his killing spree. I challenged him on this, and he threw out the "your just a civilian without the facts" argument in an attempt to shut me up. So, it would appear the RCMP at senior levels is deliberately obfuscating the facts to support a political aim. Politics before facts seems to be the rule at the RCMP.
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Except of course it was senior Mounties in Nova scotia who stopped that narrative,

The CBC article on the same has some interesting stuff about the commissioners comments and her promises.

It is not a good look.
 
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Well, if there was any doubt trudeau has pulled an obama and weaponized our national police force, just like the FBI, it's a moot point now. One has to wonder what others, beside the RCMP, have fallen. The BoC? Poliviere pointed out the collusion between the grits and bank and was called a liar, freeland said he didn't understand economics. Then we found out last week Poliviere was right. They printed excess billions to cover trudeaus promises, at his request knowing full well how it would affect our economy. And lied about it. I have zero doubt there are other ministries and offices that have been likewise infected.
 
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