The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread

[George Wallace]

How he does his job is really a moot point. Being the CDS is strictly a POLITICAL promotion. If our liberal government thought he might be a "loose cannon" and start actually fighting for the things we need he would not be placed in that position! He will play ball with the government or he will find himself being forced out of that position.
If people don't think that's how it works in Canada I have some prime vacation real estate for sale in sunny Nunavut.

Some really honest points there.  How much clout does the CDS truly have?  Gen Hillier has a good gift of gab and is very personable.  Who, honestly, is better for the "Feel Good" role of CDS.  We have the Commander In Chief and the CDS both, more or less, functioning like Politicians shaking hands and kissing babies.  One, or the other, will almost always be available to send off or welcome back the Troops.

When I drove the Div Comd, I found that the Min. of National Defence had a say over what we did in Canada, but once we were outside the country, it was the Min. of Foreign Affairs who dictated what we could or could not do.  The CDS is only a middle man......a "Yes Man". if you wish.  He may be able to give the Gov't good advice, but whether or not they take it is another story.

GW

 

[Kirkhill]

The CDS is only a middle man......a "Yes Man". if you wish.  He may be able to give the Gov't good advice, but whether or not they take it is another story.

Strange, I guess I was a "Yes Man" too.  I seem to remember coming to attention, saluting and saying Yes Sir when I was given my orders.  Maybe other folks don't do that.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Only deploy as part of a coalition?  Niche roles?  I don't like the sounds of this at all....



Matthew.  ???

 

[MSE_OP18]

Having met and worked for Lt-Gen Hillier on a few occasions. I do believe that he will do excellent as CDS. Probably one of the best we may have seen in quite a few years. One sided with army....perhaps. However, remember who he works for....His decisions will be greatly influenced by politicians of course. Never the less as a leader he has a job to do and regardless of the outcome we should not fault as we are not in that persons shoes...or boots!


Cheers

 

[Meridian]

1) I have no respect for "whose turn is it" selection processes.

2) Did LGen Hillier state words to the effect of "If I were CDS, I would favour the army", or did he state from a position as the army's advocate that he believed the army should have primacy?

3) There will still be a VCDS, DCDS, and three service chiefs of staff at the "big table".

Not knowing the man, Brad's comments make the most sense out of all the others in here.... 

Of course, I too question the "power" of the CDS... The CJCS (Im not even sure of the acronum, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs) has quite a bit of power to influence the Pentagon in the states.. but ultimately the military is a tool of the state, and should be controlled however the politicans want to control it.

I know that everyone is very anti-politician.. but the very legitimacy of the military revolves around the fact that you take your orders from the elected representatives...  (im talking high level political thought here).

 

[tomahawk6]

CDS might be able to force through a reorganization of NDHQ and the three Commands. These might then free up manpower for another brigade group. But the CDS canonly  recomend a budget but the PM will decide the who gets what. It most likely will take a change in government before the CF will see a serious budget increase. Otherwise triage will be instituted with one service getting more money than the other two.

 

[Infanteer]

I am going to agree with Brad Sallows as well - they're should be no griping over "spot jumping": seniority has historically been one of the crippling factors of a truly professional military.  May the best man win.

As for General Hillier's recent promotion, all I can really say is I'm sure glad we have a "somebody" rather than a "nobody" as the country's top soldier.  Being that the General has served as Deputy Cmr of III Corps and commanded a multinational Division headquarters overseas, I'm happy to see that someone with a good amount of operational experience is steering the boat.

Cheers,
Infanteer

 

[S McKee]

I think he's a good choice and like it or not we are a niche role military, so we better get use to it and forget all this multi-role, combat capable bafflegarb. We'll always deploy as a part of some larger force. Let's face it, as much as we'd like attack helicopters, MB Ts, new jets, ships etc, the fact is the public doesn't want us to have any-type of "offensive" war fighting equipment and the government doesn't want to pay for it  so that's that. I wish Gen Hillier the best of luck.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

I think he's a good choice and like it or not we are a niche role military, so we better get use to it and forget all this multi-role, combat capable bafflegarb. We'll always deploy as a part of some larger force. Let's face it, as much as we'd like attack helicopters, MB Ts, new jets, ships etc, the fact is the public doesn't want us to have any-type of "offensive" war fighting equipment and the government doesn't want to pay for it  so that's that. I wish Gen Hillier the best of luck.

Jumper i could not agree with you more.....

The public does not want an aggressive fighting unit under the Canadian flag.  Hense we are no longer the Armed Forces.

Was seen as to aggressive for the Peace Keeping roles that the forces has become accustomed to assuming.

I think Gen Hillier will be facing an uphill battle if he attempts to Rebuild or Re-strenghen the forces.  If he even tries.

The puplic is very against us having the kit we need to do the job we have to do.  This is until somehting happens and we have to respond to it.  Then they ask "well what do we have an army for anyway".  Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

I wish him all the luck in the world.  I just hope he can keep his head up as the bull.... can get fairly deep at the Ivory Towers.

 

[Franko]

Rick is on the tube right now making his anoucement on CTV News Net......

"Best bang for Canada....demands are huge...."

Good day to be a Dragoon?  ???

Regards

 

[Wizard of OZ]

franko

do you think it could be a worse day?  ;D

sorry could not resist.

playing the political game already 

anybody expect different. :

 

[Kirkhill]

Just a point on the public and kit.

I am not convinced the public is against the Forces having the kit. The soft-power types (NDP, Axworthy, Ploughshares, Polaris and up until recently I would have included all the Canadian media) are certainly against it and very loud in saying so but I believe that the average Canadian believes that we have tanks, howitzers, helicopters, destroyers, subs and fighters and that we should have them.  The pity of it is they believe the stuff that you have on issue all works and that you could, under the necessary and commonly agreed circumstances, use them "alongside the best".

The problem the public has is two fold - failure to realize just how clapped out a lot of the kit is and sticker shock at the bill necessary to replace it, let alone upgrade it.  That is where the failure in political leadership occurs. And as long as PM can't make a decision on anything because he is trying to stay on side between the "softies" and the "others - realists?", a faction that I actually think he might be predisposed towards, then no leadership will occur and, as tomahawk6 suggests, triage will continue to be necessary.

On the other hand maybe we will all be shocked and awed and money will flow into the coffers.

 

[Tpr.Orange]

Did anyone read the email send out by the soon departing CDS? Ill post it tuesday when i get back to the office. He sent the email to everyone in the DND and CF.

 

[Infanteer]

Does that constitute SPAM?

 

[Tpr.Orange]

If it does...are you gonna put forth the charges?

 

[Infanteer]

LOL...Maybe we can do a Forces wide email

cc "Army.ca Crew"

;D

 

[291er]

I'll throw my opinion into the ring.  I was at NDHQ on the Ex floor yesterday when the decision was put through.  Actually we were briefed a little beforehand by MGen Gauthier as to what was transpiring.  He stated simply that the changes, they are a comin'.  Whether this be good or bad, we'll see. 
I thought that VAdm Maddison (DCDS) would get it honestly, and as did a lot of my co-workers.  He has been DCDS for a few years now.  As far as the three element shuffle for CDS, that's done away with now, and it's purely a decision by the PM (apparently).  Not sure if anyone heard this yet, but VAdm Maddison is retiring this April now as of yesterday's decision (he would've stayed on had he been chosen).  That clears up the DCDS spot for someone, no indications who as of yet. 
I think the CLS spot will be reserved for MGen Leslie once he gets back from advanced trg.  I can confidently say that I would'nt be surprised to see Leslie as the CDS someday in the not too distant future either.  My 2 cents....

 

[2Lt_Burgie]

Good Day:
From what I can tell, I've seen a lot of Generals come and go, and from what I can tell, this LGen appears to have what it takes to get the job done. What Canada's Forces needs is:

1. Better Operational Equipment
2. More Troops.
3. More Troops.
4. Training for the 'More Troops'.
(None of the above is really under debate)

He has the experience, and I am looking forward to working for him through my chain of command. (and of course he is a Maritimer, some of the best people in Canada as my wife would say).

 

[ArmyRick]

I personally think Hillier is the right man for the job and I also beleive because of where he is going, transformation will speed up.

Jumper, well said and right on the money. Its true, we are not and will not be (in the near future) a huge army with brigades of MBT, IFV, SP ARTY, MRLS, etc, etc.
We are a small army and I think transformation is necessary for us. When the US went into afghanastan in '01, they requested a squadron of coyotes, nothing else (the fact they got a light Inf bn was a bonus).
I talked to a 29 year serving RCD WO (I will not mention his name without permission) who was an old tanker in germany and he openly admitted that the CF should bin Tanks and that Hillier is right on the money.
The days of us trying to play ful on combat team attacks versus the warsaw pact are over.

 

[George Wallace]

I'll throw my opinion into the ring. I was at NDHQ on the Ex floor yesterday when the decision was put through. Actually we were briefed a little beforehand by MGen Gauthier as to what was transpiring. He stated simply that the changes, they are a comin'. Whether this be good or bad, we'll see.
I thought that VAdm Maddison (DCDS) would get it honestly, and as did a lot of my co-workers. He has been DCDS for a few years now. As far as the three element shuffle for CDS, that's done away with now, and it's purely a decision by the PM (apparently). Not sure if anyone heard this yet, but VAdm Maddison is retiring this April now as of yesterday's decision (he would've stayed on had he been chosen). That clears up the DCDS spot for someone, no indications who as of yet.
I think the CLS spot will be reserved for MGen Leslie once he gets back from advanced trg. I can confidently say that I would'nt be surprised to see Leslie as the CDS someday in the not too distant future either. My 2 cents....

This makes the appointment sound like Political Patronage........which further erodes the CF.

I hate defeatist attitudes and can see it in many of the last few posts.  What is next on the chopping block?  Chop our Herc fleet and get rid of our Jump capabilities; after all when are we ever going to jump into anything anymore with the 101st and 82nd Airborne doing all that?  That makes our Jumpers a monumental waste of money.  As a Niche Armed Forces we won't need Jumpers, Tankers, Fighter Pilots, and such.  We might as well disband and put all our money into enlarging the RCMP and Red Cross....That should take care of all our requirements for PeaceKeeping and make all those Lefties happy.

Let's loose all our experience in Combat Fighting in the Army, Navy and Air Force.  Why not we are only going to be a Niche Force relying on the good ole US of A to do all the heavy stuff.  We'll continue to ride on their coattails and play the Philosopher Kings.  It is discusting to see this happen to our Armed Forces over the last fifteen year.  We are no longer a viable force and have basically rolled over and died.  What a crock.....