The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread

[hank011]

Hank011,
You had better make your point clear in regards to this
This post is inflamitory at best.....I'm giving you a chance to explain your POV.
The Army.ca Staff

15000 air force and we deploy 487 per 6 month period...those are stats from the CF web site.
The Coast Guard does Scientific research and relies on Auroras to do the Fisheries patrols...Fisheries officers actually do stints on Auroras BTW! Not much of a Coast Guard if the navy ends up doing fisheries patrols.
The CDS rotates if you havent noticed...Army, Navy, Air Force. No progress was made when Hillier was not CDS, budgets slashed, bases closing, tighten your belt was the official catch phrase. CANFORGEN's were issued regularly urging fiscal restraint and speeches were made regularly with...we will do this if we have are way...but they were never able to get their way. Hillier is clear with his direction and the direction is always chosen by the CDS...the Army is its own entity tho....

 

[George Wallace]

OK......Everyone calm down.

Hank011 has just stuck his foot in his mouth with his obvious lack of knowledge of so many things he is trying to address.  He has just shown us he has no idea at all of what the CDS's job is.  Nor does he show any knowledge of what the rest of the CF do for a living and their contributions to the defence of this Nation.

 

[vonGarvin]

OK, back on track (from me).
Gen Hillier is indeed a "new style" of leader, compared to previous persons in that job.  Few have been so widely recognised outside of the CF. 

Take it from there....

 

[hank011]

Where do I start!!!! I know, prayer...that always calms me down...GOD GIVE ME STRENGTH!!!

First of all there are no Generals in Navy there Hank, they are called Admirals.
Second the CDS is supposed to be the leader of the whole Armed Forces not just the Army.
Your disrepect for the leadership in the Air Force and the Navy is disgusting. There are plenty of strong leaders...my big boss RAdm Dean McFadden (JTFA Commander) is an excellent leader who is extremely focussed on supporting our Task Force...0107 in Kandahar.
Do you actually know what the Air Force does and the vital roles they play not only in transporting the Army around but in Maritime Surveillance, SAR, NORAD etc.
As for the Navy we presently have a frigate in the Arabian Gulf with the American task force enforcing maritime blockade of suspicious ships (which may have illegal arms headed for Iraq or Afghanistan)...hardly un-operational and we have a lot of other roles that you would do well to acquiant yourself with.
Please refrain from posting garbage of an uninformed nature.
If the present CDS is replaced by any of the current top brass in the Navy the whole of the CF will be well served...they are dedicated and strong leaders.

OMG really an Admiral...well that changes everything(shaking his head).  Uh my comments were about the fisheries patrols...not the gulf. I have no idea what the Air Force does...thanks for enlightening me. History does not seem to support an effective non-army CDS.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

OMG really an Admiral...well that changes everything(shaking his head).  Uh my comments were about the fisheries patrols...not the gulf. I have no idea what the Air Force does...thanks for enlightening me. History does not seem to support an effective non-army CDS.

I think you might be well advised to suck back and reload. You are not impressing anyone here with your posts.
This isn't a forum where you get to disrespect your fellow service men and women in a different element.

 

[Franko]

Back on topic troops.

Gen Hillier is indeed a "new style" of leader, compared to previous persons in that job.  Few have been so widely recognised outside of the CF.

The Army.ca Staff

 

[GAP]

History does not seem to support an effective non-army CDS

Other than trying to support his basic statement above in a poorly worded, undiplomatic way, is he that far out?

 

[Edward Campbell]

There are several factors which make a CDS more or less ‘effective’ in the ever present task of securing the necessary resources for the CF.  The main one is: government reliance on the CF.  Put simply: if they need us they will give us resources (money for people, kit and O&M); if they don’t they won’t.

Gen. Hillier is fortunate in serving when the governments needs us and ‘feeds’ us.  Other excellent people - VAdm Larry Murray comes to mind as my personal favourite - were every bit as able as Gen. Hillier in every possible respect, they ere excellent commanders and leaders (and I agree with a previous poster who said these are not quite the same thing) and skilled workers in Ottawa’s bureaucratic vineyards too boot, but they did not bring home the bacon for the simple reason that there was none - the government had turned off the taps.  Absent a real battle to be fought with real bullets there was no way - none at all - to turn the taps on.  In the same circumstances, Gen. Hillier, I am 100% confident, would have fared no better than e.g. Gen. Dextraze or VAdm Murray.

Gen. Hillier is an exceptional CDS and he has had the support of the government and he has been able to secure some of the resources we need.  Mind you, most of the plans and projects which Gen. Hillier is seeing through to fruition were initiated, nurtured and supported by his predecessors and I am also sure that he would be last person to bad mouth them for their foresight and perseverance.

 

[kratz]

Other than trying to support his basic statement above in a poorly worded, undiplomatic way, is he that far out?

I'll bite at the question GAP.

I've known many senior Naval leaders who would have been considered as a great CDS but were never appointed for various reasons. When considering the process of sharing the post of CDS between the elements and political timing are considered, those Naval leaders who have held the helm as CDS have had a tough course to steer.

I have great respect for the current CDS as he is getting the job done, has earned and keeps the troops' respect and is an overall leader who we should be following now.

 

[GAP]

+1

I, also think Edward's post clearly explained the why's and why nots

 

[Just a Guy]

I have worked for the last three CDS's at some point of my career. Huge differences between each, one thing that has stuck with me was hearing General Hillier say (btw has a brillance the depth of which most are not given the chance to see) he could not presently accomplish his job if General Henault had not steadied the organization during a time of great Governmental unrest. I would argue, and the Chief would doubtless agree, that he could not have done what General Henault did, neither could Henault have done what Hillier is doing. The great thing about history is that it tends to demonstrate that different challenges need different leaders.

Just a Guy

 

[Cloud Cover]

Hillier also appears to have brought a visible plan and a warrior centric vision that was at least initially bought into by all levels. If nothing else, he has an ability to motivate and appears to instill confidence in those he leads provided they share his visions. He scares the shit out of a fair number of people as well. Without commenting on the fairness of the following, it seems to me the stabilizing effect of Henault mentioned by JAG was cloaked by his fairly significant reputation of being seen by the ranks as being too politically acceptable to the Libs- in other words creating the impression he was a completely neutered military man.  I accept he was a bit of a fence mender, however his behind the scenes work did little in terms of building motivation, and he did not seem to be able to counter the element of distrust  within the army and Navy, although I believe the air force and purple types were somewhat more likely to give him some slack.   

 

[Cloud Cover]

Interesting- this is the same guy who pretty much appeared to have crapped his pants in a press briefing when a reporter started asking questions about a clip shown by the US of a CF-18 attacking a target in Kosovo. 

 

[GAP]

Different preceptions and POV....people, most people expect Military Officials, especially those wearing the uniform and being in charge, to be clear, concise, and straightforward. If the image does not come across that way, they are then pigeonholed as something else.

 

[Good2Golf]

Just a Guy and others had the opportunity to see Henault head off much of Chretien's distaste for the military.  He will be someone that will likely not receive acknowledgement of his efforts commensurate with the degree to which I believe they kept the CF going during difficult time (governmentally and socially.)  If anything, Henault conducted shaping operations (including not getting fired by Chretien) that many would argue set the conditions for Hillier to operate within with such success today.  Both are different people, but I have a great amount of respect for both.  Gen Hillier is fantastic motivationally in a way that I would never expect from Henault.  Both have great military and political acumen, then Gen Hillier happens to camouflage for the most part...make no mistake, however, the "simple" soldier from the Rock is anything but!  Hopefully he continues to provide his operationally-focused leadership to the CF for a long time to come...lord knows, there are days he looks very tired.  I wish him the best!

G2G

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Just a Guy and others had the opportunity to see Henault head off much of Chretien's distaste for the military.  He will be someone that will likely not receive acknowledgement of his efforts commensurate with the degree to which I believe they kept the CF going during difficult time (governmentally and socially.)  If anything, Henault conducted shaping operations (including not getting fired by Chretien) that many would argue set the conditions for Hillier to operate within with such success today.  Both are different people, but I have a great amount of respect for both.  Gen Hillier is fantastic motivationally in a way that I would never expect from Henault.  Both have great military and political acumen, then Gen Hillier happens to camouflage for the most part...make no mistake, however, the "simple" soldier from the Rock is anything but!  Hopefully he continues to provide his operationally-focused leadership to the CF for a long time to come...lord knows, there are days he looks very tired.  I wish him the best!

G2G

Agreed and if he were not a good leader I doubt that he would have been selected for the NATO post he holds today. And just for that bloke that was accusing the Navy and AF of having poor leaders the last Canadian guy to hold the NATO post was Admiral Robert Falls....an excellent CDS who had the misfortune to serve during the Trudeau years of desolation (Oh yeah he was a decorated WW2 Naval aviator who commanded the Bonaventure and the East Coast Fleet)...not such a shabby leader.

 

[dynaglide]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070216/hillier_prop_070216/20070216?hub=Canada

Comments?

 

[Edward Campbell]

This, reproduced under the Fair Dealing (§29) provisions of the Copyright Act is from today’s Globe And Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070216.whillier0216/BNStory/National/home

Hillier laments military's 'decade of darkness' under Grits

Canadian Press

OTTAWA — A Liberal MP accused the country's top soldier Friday of being “a prop” for the Conservative party after he described the 1990s as “a decade of darkness” for the military.

General Rick Hillier, the chief of the defence staff, said in a speech to a defence group earlier in the day that the Canadian Forces faced troubled times after 1994 in a period when the Liberals worked to balance the federal budget with heavy spending cuts.

Liberal MP Denis Coderre said he is disappointed that Gen. Hillier would describe the Liberal era in such terms, and he called the general's highly political and inappropriate.

Mr. Coderre said the Liberals under Paul Martin proposed adding billions to the defence budget.

Gen. Hillier says he is not a politician and he describes things as accurately and bluntly as he can.

While I think the description is both apt and accurate, Gen. Hillier’s comment was bound to create some controversy – I’m sure he knew that going in.  I’m fairly sure his staff had the courtesy to pass the speech by the Minister’s office – DND’s ‘voice’ at the Conference of Defence Association’s annual meeting used to be fairly well coordinated in order to ensure that the MND, DM and CDS did not contradict one another in public.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Wooops ... I didn't see this when I posted the Globe and Mail's version and my comments in the General Hillier thread.

Perhaps the Mods can merge them ...

 

[career_radio-checker]

Liberal MP Denis Coderre says he is disappointed that Hillier would describe the Liberal era in such terms.

Ohhhhh to be Hillier for this comback  

"Well Mr. honerable member sir, *gets big black DND 'expediture cut/operational increase book from podium* I'm sure you'd like to have some proof. Don't mind the target circles around Chreatien and Matin's pictures that's part of DND's interdepartmental stamping system."

Sadly, I feel that Hillier's statement would put him in his own coffin if the liberals ever got back in power. Pray the day never comes, pray I tell you!