The Decline of the Liberal Party- Swerved Into a Confederation Topic

[FSTO]

Someone in High Level AB isn't likely to have much sympathy with someone in Toronto who's toughest thing in their life was that Canada Post stopped dropping their mail in a slot in the door, since reversed as I understand it.

Man, that really ground my gears when that twit Denis Coddere lost his mind over that. Most people outside of large cities NEVER had home mail delivery, even the shut ins.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Bingo.

Population density should not equate to priority of representation.

But isn't that democracy??

 

[dimsum]

This is too big a country to think we are just one big homogeneous mass of people. Someone in High Level AB isn't likely to have much sympathy with someone in Toronto who's toughest thing in their life was that Canada Post stopped dropping their mail in a slot in the door, since reversed as I understand it. People in Kingston give less than two fucks, polished side down, that oil and gas workers in Estevan, Ft Mac, or Fort St John have to decide between the mortgage payment or feeding their kids thanks to the decisions of your duly elected government. You lived on Vancouver Island with a guaranteed pay cheque twice a month? How did you ever survive? I bet you have a friend that lives in Calgary too.

Hold on - are you insinuating that just because I was working for DND in BC, I don't understand how western Canadians would feel that they're not being heard? I can have empathy even though I'm not in that situation myself.

Population density should not equate to priority of representation.

Honest question to both of you then - if population isn't the metric, then what is?

 

[Halifax Tar]

But isn't that democracy??

I would argue Ont and Que dictating to the country is not very democratic.

Hold on - are you insinuating that just because I was working for DND in BC, I don't understand how western Canadians would feel that they're not being heard? I can have empathy even though I'm not in that situation myself.


Honest question to both of you then - if population isn't the metric, then what is?

I've discussed this before on here. I would divided the country into regions and spread the seats in the HOC as evenly as possible across the country.

Right now our politicians can ignore issues that don't lay in vote rich territory, and that's wrong. And they can ignore the wishes of vote poor territories, and that's wrong.

I repeat, population density should not equate to priority of representation.

It's a pipe dream, I know.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Hold on - are you insinuating that just because I was working for DND in BC, I don't understand how western Canadians would feel that they're not being heard? I can have empathy even though I'm not in that situation myself.


Honest question to both of you then - if population isn't the metric, then what is?

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm saying you lived in a place that has more in common with Peterborough than Ponoka.
Easy. You let AB, SK, MB go, give us the northern half of BC, coastline included. we give you a ten mile wide corridor along the southern border so your surfing and skiing can continue. You enjoy your socialist workers paradise and we get back to the business of earning money.

 

[GR66]

I would argue Ont and Que dictating to the country is not very democratic.



I've discussed this before on here. I would divided the country into regions and spread the seats in the HOC as evenly as possible across the country.

Right now our politicians can ignore issues that don't lay in vote rich territory, and that's wrong. And they can ignore the wishes of vote poor territories, and that's wrong.

I repeat, population density should not equate to priority of representation.

It's a pipe dream, I know.

What you seem to be describing is an elected and effective Senate.

 

[FSTO]

Honest question to both of you then - if population isn't the metric, then what is?

Rep by population - HoC
Rep by area - Senate

The problem is that the Senate is appointed and doesn’t have credibility in the eyes of many. Hence the cry of “Triple E” Senate to make it relevant.
That would cut into the power of the HoC and therefore will never see the light of day.

 

[dimsum]

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm saying you lived in a place that has more in common with Peterborough than Ponoka.
Easy. You let AB, SK, MB go, give us the northern half of BC, coastline included. we give you a ten mile wide corridor along the southern border so your surfing and skiing can continue. You enjoy your socialist workers paradise and we get back to the business of earning money.

I mean if you're talking Wexit, I don't see the reason for the 10-mile buffer. Folks from ON aren't driving to BC to ski/surf.

I also think Wexit will turn out about as good as Brexit is going, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In 2015 the LPC were able to capitalize on the image of a drowned 2 year old Syrian boy and haven't looked back since.

I'm not sure if the party is in decline or not but they sure as hell did a great job poisoning the well.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I would argue Ont and Que dictating to the country is not very democratic.

So if we divide Ont and Que into 7 more little provinces you're satisfied?

 

[mariomike]

Most people outside of large cities NEVER had home mail delivery, even the shut ins.

Coupons in the mail are one thing.

Some people on our street are still reeling over having to wheel their garbage to the end of the driveway.

Instead of having it picked up around back, like they used to.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I mean if you're talking Wexit, I don't see the reason for the 10-mile buffer. Folks from ON aren't driving to BC to ski/surf.

I also think Wexit will turn out about as good as Brexit is going, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Luckily the Western provinces can't agree on anything, sometimes in a spectacular fashion, so the divide and rule principle that underpins Canada's Confederation should ensure that we remain whole for the foreseeable future

Viz:

Alberta enacted Bill 12, dubbed the “turn off the taps act” in May, after it was passed by the previous provincial government in retaliation for British Columbia opposing the expansion of the Trans Mountain oil pipeline.

Court blocks Alberta law curbing energy flows to British Columbia

A Canadian court on Tuesday temporarily blocked legislation enabling the province of Alberta to restrict oil and gas flows to British Columbia, leaving the constitutionality of the measure to be decided at a later trial.

www.reuters.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

BC is a bit like California; there are noticeable political differences between people along the coast and people in the interior. In assessing "the West", coastal BC'ers don't fit. (Vancouver Islanders are so far out of tune that they think it reasonable to impose their environmental preferences on the entire province, while demanding the entire body of provincial taxpayers help to subsidize ferry service.) But even if the West is only 20 to 25% of total population, that's large enough to require collective dissatisfaction to be satisfactorily addressed by the dominant faction, which means it's also large enough that deliberate antagonism ought be avoided.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I mean if you're talking Wexit, I don't see the reason for the 10-mile buffer. Folks from ON aren't driving to BC to ski/surf.

I also think Wexit will turn out about as good as Brexit is going, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Northern half of BC includes an all year, deep water port, from which to ship all our nasty natural resources that you folks don't need or want as long as that stalwart of human rights and environmental concern that is the Most Noble House of Saud keeps selling it to you. Fine, we'll keep our ten miles, makes it easier to drive to Vegas to spend all our filthy oil money. And wheat money. And Canola money. And potash money. And...

 

[Remius]

Just add a popular vote % factor to the current system and let parties assign what they get as they see fit or as equally as possible between regions.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I would argue Ont and Que dictating to the country is not very democratic.



I've discussed this before on here. I would divided the country into regions and spread the seats in the HOC as evenly as possible across the country.

Right now our politicians can ignore issues that don't lay in vote rich territory, and that's wrong. And they can ignore the wishes of vote poor territories, and that's wrong.

I repeat, population density should not equate to priority of representation.

It's a pipe dream, I know.

Almost half the population lives in Ontario. Do you expect them to be represented by the same amount of votes as PEI? PEI has a population of 170,688. Ontario has a population of 15,007,816. How do you ensure fair representation if both PEI and Ontario have, say, six votes each?

 

[Good2Golf]

Just add a popular vote % factor to the current system and let parties assign what they get as they see fit or as equally as possible between regions.

Like was implied in PMJT’s 2915 electoral reform promise, then….well….2016, 2017, 2018….etc.

#itsoktolie

 

[Brad Sallows]

I doubt there are any small solutions which would work. Our intractable problem is that our executive and legislative design is ill-suited to a geographically large country with highly concentrated pockets of voters. All the political power of the victorious plurality rolls downhill into the PMO after every election. If we had written stuff down to prevent that, then we wouldn't be here. But not everything was written down, and customary practice is a weak pillar.

At minimum, we'd essentially have to restructure to be like the US, and the language defining the limits of federal responsibility would have to be even plainer and stronger than theirs. There can't be any wiggle room, because over time the wiggles gradually expand.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I don't think any region should be allowed to dominate the country politically.

As long as we want too retain a Westminster type of Parliamentary Democracy where people are represented in defined constituencies on a roughly equitable "rep by pop" basis then ON and QC will "dominate the country politically," because:

 

[suffolkowner]

I would argue Ont and Que dictating to the country is not very democratic

But Ontario and Quebec dont vote the same representation in