The Curse of Cultural Awareness

[neko]

Pretty much the only way to get punted is to get convicted of an indictable offence.  And since the legal system is a joke, no charges that are dual rarely ever get proceded with by way of indictment.  And even when they get drilled for something like murder or manslaughter, they find a way to get someone pregnant and generally end up staying anyway. 
Immigration policy:  "Just get here.  We'll do the rest".   :

This must be a special deal for they have on for criminals so they can't be accused of discriminating against morally-challenged people. My friend from Israel has had to jump through hoops to be able to remain here for a few years while she went to university and even more crap to be able to work. She's off shortly to Australia which has, so far, been more welcoming to her to do her master's.

 

[niner domestic]

Well don't give up hope quite yet on the use of deportation.  The War Crimes Unit has been using it since the Finta case to punt war criminals.  IMHO, I think it was quite a brilliant move to utilize that aspect of the Immigration Act to get around the moratorium on prosecuting War Criminals. 

http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/CIR/873-e.htm

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This must be a special deal for they have on for criminals so they can't be accused of discriminating against morally-challenged people. My friend from Israel has had to jump through hoops to be able to remain here for a few years while she went to university and even more crap to be able to work. She's off shortly to Australia which has, so far, been more welcoming to her to do her master's.

I know quite a few immigrants who are packing up and leaving because Canada treats them like dirt, they go elsewhere where their degrees are worth something. If you not willing to play the system and would rather be honest and hard working, they will screw you.

 

[neko]

I know quite a few immigrants who are packing up and leaving because Canada treats them like dirt, they go elsewhere where their degrees are worth something. If you not willing to play the system and would rather be honest and hard working, they will screw you.

My friend had no end of hassles with immigration, and alot of it was due to different people in immigration telling her completely different things, and a few were actually rude to her.  I won't go on as this is a bit off topic.

It is a pity that there isn't a list of offenses that, if you are found guilty of committing, would just automatically get you sent back to your country of origin, and that this would be enforced regardless of what country you came from.

 

[Bigmac]

02-01-2007, 11h51
02-01-2007, 11h51
HEROUXVILLE, Canada (AFP)

A Quebec town has banned stoning, female circumcision, wearing of burqas, and even halal meats, in a controversial signal to immigrants about the limits of Canada's renowned tolerance.

      I think this is a great idea letting new immigrants know that settling into our country also means they must obey our laws. If you are not willing to follow the Canadian laws then don't come here. Canada has always respected the cultures of new immigrants but certain customs will not be tolerated here, such as mutilation of young females, honor killings, etc. As long as they are informed up front then they can have the option of settling somewhere else if they are not willing to follow the rules.

    Remainder of article on link below.

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=161192

 

[geo]

A second town in Quebec (St Roch) has published it>s own manifesto - pert well saying the same thing.

Oik..... can see that some people will take this the wrong way.

Too bad

 

[Centurian1985]

Did they actually call it a 'manifesto'?  Perhaps 'guidelines' would be a better term...

 

[geo]

In truth, it"s a town council "resolution"

 

[zipperhead_cop]

From the article:

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=161192

Henceforth, newcomers to Herouxville are forbidden from requesting halal meats, which are prepared in the manner prescribed by Islamic law, from a local butcher.

Not lawfully enforcable.

They must not "publicly stone women to death" nor "burn women with acid"

We kind of already have a thing that covers that.  It's called the Criminal Code of Canada.

nor circumcise them,

I was curious about this one.  If it is not unlawful, the by-law is once again redundant.  I do find myself unaware as to the legal postion of female circumcision. 

and wearing a veil is strongly discouraged, the municipality declared.

Also toothless and useless. 

This, coming from a province that constantly renews it's notwithstanding clause under the Charter of Rights in order to ignore anglophone rights to language.  Perhaps Quebec wants to follow in the footsteps of France in creating an alienated Muslim population. 
I think there are better ways to try to remedy our countries manic obsession with political correctness than singling out a particular religion and attacking it. 

 

[niner domestic]

Female circumcision is held to be misconduct by governing bodies of Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons. A doctor performing such a procedure will be reported to the agencies that are authorized under the Child and Family Protection Service and dealt with in accordance to those Acts. 

Statement No. 111 - Female Circumcision
    Female circumcision is not an appropriate medical practice under any circumstance and if performed by a physician, represents professional misconduct.  If a physician is aware of a proposal to perform female circumcision on a child, the incident must be reported pursuant to the requirement to report child abuse set forth in The Child and Family Services Authorities Act .


Reference:


Daya, S. MB, MSC, FRCSC. Female Genital Mutilation - A Call to Abandon This  Traditional Custom. J SOGC 1995;17:315-8.


First Print    L&E/02/92
Revision      EXEC/11-01


            A statement is a formal position of the College with which members shall comply. 

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Yeah, but that only applies to legit doctors.  That wouldn't deter some mosque appointed butcher from going at it "old school".  To me, it is aggravated assault, pure and simple.  But then again, you could argue that about male circumcision (not intending to intiate a hijack on the pro's and con's of male circumcision)
In the absence of a victim/complainant, there is no way to prosecute.  And by the time a girl would be old enough to be able to get the idea that she had been mauled, she would have been that way all her life.  Would you go after your parents or just the doctor? 

 

[GO!!!]

Would you go after your parents or just the doctor? 

All of the above.

On the other hand - maybe this could be a method for devoutly muslim women to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt their strict adherence to cultural practices as they interpret them from a holy book - voluntary female circumcision.

When a woman is 18, allow her to make the choice. I wonder how many who currently insist on not shaking hands with male colleagues and covering their faces in public would make such a personal choice to be snipped and stitched? I suspect they prefer more superficial methods of trumpetting their differences from the mainstream.

 

[niner domestic]

ZC, you are correct in your observations that it is often too late by the time any professional who is mandated to report such an act finds out and reports it.  It unfortunately tends to fall under the category of child abuse and although it is sexual in nature, it doesn't quite meet the threshold to be called a sexual assault in a criminal context.  Why, because of the documentation of religious and cultural practices.  It can only be deemed an extreme case of child abuse and only if the child appears to have suffered (I have always had great difficulty with this rationale as an infant child of tender years is ill equipped to articulate whether they suffered when they barely have a spoken language in their grasp.)  I also agree with you on the assault, providing that those responsible for bringing about the charges can reconcile the legal tenent of you can't consent to being assaulted (R. v Jobidon) with those rights of a parent to practice their cultural and religious ideologies and customs (Re: Baby Beena B).  I have also had a huge problem with why this remains a grey matter and is not forthwith dispatched into being contrary to the CC. 

This part of the resolution may or may not stand as there are provisions in the Child and Family Service Acts to prevent and apprehend children who are in need and who are at risk - question is, is it strong enough to carry this particular act.  On the other hand it may not survive based on the Alberta case of prostitution where the city was found to be ultra vires the Feds on enacting a bylaw to deal with a matter that was clearly a federal (Crim Code) jurisdiction.  Personally, I think the Child and Family Services Act will support the town's resolution.   

 

[geo]

Zip,
I agree that the Herouxville & St Roch resolutions are vague & redundant BUT,  I think it was their way of saying that while they are more than happy to welcome immigrants into their community, the continuously growing list of accomodations (and even then - many are still nt happy) is driving everyone batty.

WRT the Hallal & Kosher meats from the local butcher .... given that the butcher is neither Jewish or Muslim,  he couldn't meet the standard - no mater the quality.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I think they could have gotten the same thing achieved by stating what they would do, and not try to say what others can't do.
Such as:
"We resolve that Christmas will be observed in overt and traditional manners as people choose.  No trees, nativity scenes, or decorations will be taken down, and no schools will be dissuaded from Christmas pageants.  The City will also allow displays of other recognized faiths.  Other Christian holidays will also be observed (notably Easter) but again other festivals of recognized religions are welcome. "
Then, if anyone had a problem with a display, they could try to fight it in a city counsel meeting, and then try to launch a law suit if they were that lame. 

Considering how hyper-persecuted some Muslims choose to feel, all they have done is created just another friction point.  It would be pretty hard to see that counsel order as anything but trying to discourage Muslims from living in that town. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I know that many of the Sunni Muslims here in Vancouver will not eat “halal” meat prepared by a Shiitte. Since the majority of Muslims here are from Iran, the Sunni are SOL. Under the Hadith’s a Muslim can eat Kosher and in order to preserve their health can eat non-halal items including pork if required. The devout Muslims have a tendency to try to out do their neighbors in piety, even if it means harming themselves, which Muhammad told them not to do.  : 

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Kind of like a Muslim version of Keeping Up With the Jones' ?
Keeping Up With the Abbas' ?

 

[chanman]

I know that many of the Sunni Muslims here in Vancouver will not eat “halal” meat prepared by a Shiitte. Since the majority of Muslims here are from Iran, the Sunni are SOL. Under the Hadith’s a Muslim can eat Kosher and in order to preserve their health can eat non-halal items including pork if required. The devout Muslims have a tendency to try to out do their neighbors in piety, even if it means harming themselves, which Muhammad told them not to do.  : 

Huh, news to me.  I was under the impression that the big Muslim communities were from South and Southeast Asia.  (Might depend on where in the GVRD you are, I guess)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

49,000 Iranians in Vancouver.

The Muslim community here is quite a mix bag of everything, something my devout brother inlaw from Malaysia was amazed at as Malaysia does not encourage Shiites and it is against the law there to practice/preach any other form of Islam than Sunnism. 

 

[geo]

A group of muslim women met the town council last weekend.....
After having compared notes, the town has ammended it's MOU

It is now "acceptable" to stone women in Herouxville.  (though Illegal)