The Children are our future

[a_majoor]

With attitudes like these in the up and coming generation and the people in the positions of power today, we are in very big trouble indeed:

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/006077

Thursday, April 26, 2007

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New Brunswick student refuses to respect Canadian anthem; teacher gets suspended

It’s a free country but part of the school experience is having a few rules. Be in class, show up on time and when O Canada is played, stand up, take off your hat, and sing it.

When a Grade 9 student refused to stand in class in Miramichi for the anthem, the teacher sent the student to the principal’s office.

Via CTV/Canadian Press
MIRAMICHI, N.B. - A New Brunswick teacher has been suspended after sending a student to the principal's office for refusing to stand during the Canadian anthem.
Eric Cameron, a Grade 9 teacher at Miramichi Valley High School, was disciplined following the incident last Thursday.
The superintendent of District 16 school board has declined comment, citing privacy issues.
The student who wouldn't stand was roughed up after the incident by others on a school bus.
He wasn't seriously hurt.
Supt. Randall Hansen of Miramichi Regional Police says they've spoken to a number of witnesses but charges haven't been laid.

The violence the student faced was unacceptable…period. However, the teacher was suspended for demanding that the students in his class show some respect for their country?!?

It really is do what you feel in Canada these days isn’t it?

This really is an Alice in Wonderland situation; in any sensible place the student would be the one suspended, and for their actions the school administration should be fired.......but how likely will that be, I wonder?

 

[Mike Baker]

This is sick. But, they may change to be like me, a military loving Conservative, who do sing the anthem when it is played, and stand up an remove my hat, out of respect for our great nation, and the people who fight so they can baiscally bad mouth it.  At least most people I know are not like this.

 

[MikeM]

+1 Majoor,

However, it is good to see there were some peers who decided to enforce a little respect through their own means, however thats just my opinion.

 

[Roy Harding]

+1 Majoor,

However, it is good to see there were some peers who decided to enforce a little respect through their own means, however thats just my opinion.

I doubt that the "roughing up" was meted out as a reaction to his refusal to stand.  No doubt, his action served merely as a convenient excuse for the hooligans.  They certainly weren't playing the part of the "good guy". 

This story is sad - none of the kids mentioned (the disrespectful one, NOR the ruffians who "decided to enforce a little respect") acted in any honourable way.

The only one who seems to have his head on straight is the teacher - apparently the principal and the school board failed to back that teacher up.


Roy

 

[retiredgrunt45]

The problem here may be. what is he taught at home?

If any of my kids, when they were growing up, didn't stop and respect our nations Anthem, wether it be at a hockey game or wherever it was played, there would be hell to pay, when they got home. A little respect goes along way at anything you do in life, a little self respect, which this kid seems to have non of, speaks volumes as to his up bringing. Instilling respect into your children starts at home with the parents.

 

[captjtq]

I doubt that the "roughing up" was meted out as a reaction to his refusal to stand.  No doubt, his action served merely as a convenient excuse for the hooligans.  They certainly weren't playing the part of the "good guy". 

I think you'd be surprised, actually - kids these days, from what I've been seeing, have a fair amount of respect for our country and it's traditions. Not to say that I condone their actions, but I think some of them, especially in a province that recently has been hard hit in this war we're currently fighting, may have been acting misguidedly but patriotically.

 

[Cpl.Banks]

To be entirely honnest I'm not at all surprised by this. In my school and more specifically my class there is no respect for the national anthem/ this country. A good deal of people I know say things are better where they came from etc... It's frustrating and in fact the teachers in general don't do anything to stop it, hats on, talking, mp3 players on, sitting (leaning) on desks.

Can't always blame the kids when the teachers are just as bad!
Dave 

 

[proudnurse]

The problem here may be. what is he taught at home?

If any of my kids, when they were growing up, didn't stop and respect our nations Anthem, wether it be at a hockey game or wherever it was played, there would be hell to pay, when they got home. A little respect goes along way at anything you do in life, a little self respect, which this kid seems to have non of, speaks volumes as to his up bringing. Instilling respect into your children starts at home with the parents.

+1 retiredgrunt, this is truly what it comes down to. This is our job as parents, respect begins at home.

Regards, Rebecca

 

[Bobby Rico]

Holy crap, I just had a dream about something like this happening- same type of situation- kid not paying respect to our country by standing for anthem or flag being raised or something of that nature. 

Neither here nor there.  Back in the day, I would have been one of those kids that administered punishment to brats like that- and believe me, I wasn't a violent kid, but it irked the hell out of me when people, anyone, pissed on this country.  As a 5th generation Canadian, I take people's disrespect of this country, my country very personally, even if it's something relatively innocent like not standing for the anthem.  What bugs me even more though is that the teacher was the one to get punishment?  Is this the freakin introduction to the opposites ala You Can't Do that on Television or something!?  Wow, I'm beginning to see the appeal of homeschooling now.  Violence and indifference in the classrooms, yeah, great environment to be in as a kid.  No wonder they're messed up these days.

 

[Mike Baker]

+1 Bobby. I myself am not that violent, but it do make me very mad, like you said.

 

[childs56]

They should ask the kid what country he does respect and then give him a one way ticket to it.
As for the kids roughing him up, to bad so sad. I feel nothing for him.

It is a privilege to live in Canada not a right. You have to show the respect when it is due. The National Anthem is one of them.

As for the school administration. They should all be disciplined for not acting on a teachers willingness to discipline a student who failed to follow the rules.

If they were saying the Lords Prayer and he didn't want to participate then fine. I could see this as being an issue..

The teacher should be given an apology by the Administration and reinstated ASAP.

 

[PeptoBismarck]

It's really our fault as Canadian Voters that we've voted left-wing politician after left-wing politician into positions where they can make/enforce practices like these. We need freedom of speech and some good ol' american style ass kick attitude about these types of things  :threat:. IMHO the TEACHER should beat the snot outta that kid (which is by the way legal according to the Criminal Code, maybe not beat the 'snot out' though). Education/parenting people, that's what it's all about. Teach to be pansies and guess what they'll become... pansies  :-*.

 

[GAP]

It's really our fault as Canadian Voters that we've voted left-wing politician after left-wing politician into positions where they can make/enforce practices like these. We need freedom of speech and some good ol' american style ass kick attitude about these types of things  :threat:. IMHO the TEACHER should beat the snot outta that kid (which is by the way legal according to the Criminal Code, maybe not beat the 'snot out' though). Education/parenting people, that's what it's all about. Teach to be pansies and guess what they'll become... pansies  :-*.

Having served as a school trustee, and been in the situation where a teacher grabbed a student and literally dragged him across his desk and gave him a flying lesson into the hall, I wish any teacher well, but don't count on support. I was totally outnumbered and outvoted by the rest of the board.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

It's really our fault as Canadian Voters that we've voted left-wing politician after left-wing politician into positions where they can make/enforce practices like these. We need freedom of speech and some good ol' american style *** kick attitude about these types of things  :threat:. IMHO the TEACHER should beat the snot outta that kid (which is by the way legal according to the Criminal Code, maybe not beat the 'snot out' though). Education/parenting people, that's what it's all about. Teach to be pansies and guess what they'll become... pansies  :-*.

Okay....I've now read two of your seven total posts here, and have come to the conclusion you have no idea what you're talking about....seriously, you're coming across as a 15-year old - strong opinions with zero foundation.


Matthew.  :

 

[warspite]

The student who wouldn't stand was roughed up after the incident by others on a school bus.

This actually made this story a little easier to take. Glad the here the little punk got what he deserved. If he is one of those kids who question and protest everything.... "cause it's like.... their right man.... and they're going to stick it to the man... dude those trees are waving".... DOUBLEY SO

 

[Mike Baker]

+1 warspite.

 

[armyvern]

Well,

Being that I actually get NB newspapers on occasion ... I'll follow this original article up with this one that acknowledges an investigation into the teachers suspension. It actually infers that, although the suspension (with pay) occurred concurrently with the sending of the student to the office, that the reason the teacher was suspended was not due to his sending the youth to the office. Rather, the suspension was based on the teacher's refusal to allow the student back into his classroom well after he had visited the office and been dealt with.

Reproduced under the fair dealings provisions of the copyright act:

http://www.canadaeast.com/ce2/docroot/article.php?articleID=141825

Investigation launched into teacher's suspension?
School district refuses comment on reported probe into why MVHS teacher barred from classroom

Published Friday May 11th, 2007

The school year is about to end and still there's no word if a Miramichi teacher will return to his classroom.

Miramichi Valley High School Grade 9 teacher Eric Cameron has been sent home with pay since April.

The community is a buzz with questions. A petition of support for Cameron popped up online through Facebook.com and now has about 245 signatures, some of them from students as far back as 1979. Letters to the editor continue to grace the pages of a local newspaper and questions about what happened are making their way into chats between friends.

There's never been confirmation about what prompted Cameron's removal. Some believe it had to do with Cameron sending a Miramichi Valley High School student who wouldn't stand for O Canada out of the classroom last month. That day, Cameron was asked to leave the school. The 16-year-old student was also involved in a fight on a school bus on his way home later that same day.

The school district says the O Canada incident was not the reason, but provided few details calling it a "personnel issue." Yesterday, District 16 superintendent Kathy Baldwin would neither confirm nor deny that a District investigation has been launched related to the way Cameron disciplined the student.

Sources say that Cameron refused to take the student back into his classroom after he'd been to the principal's office regarding the O Canada incident and that this is what the District's investigation is about. Sources also say the student involved in this had been a troublemaker.

Baldwin refused comment. "I'm just not talking about it," she said.

However, she did re-affirm that there's no correlation between the national anthem or a child being asked to go to the office.

As time passes the number of signatures on the petition supporting Cameron's return to the classroom continues to climb.

One supporter wrote, "Mr. Cameron is an awesome teacher. He is not only there as a teacher, but as a friend as well. He was one of my teachers when I attended MVHS five years ago. I hope that everyone will continue to support Mr. C as I know I will."

 

[Roy Harding]

This actually made this story a little easier to take. Glad the here the little punk got what he deserved. If he is one of those kids who question and protest everything.... "cause it's like.... their right man.... and they're going to stick it to the man... dude those trees are waving".... DOUBLEY SO

I've been studiously NOT posting to this thread since my original post here:  http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/60421/post-561335.html#msg561335 .

However, I can't take it anymore.

The (reported) fact that these students refused to respect our nation is a (in my opinion) despicable act.  The (reported) fact that other students chose to "rough them up" is ALSO A DESPICABLE ACT.

Come on - are you (Michael_Baker and warspite, amongst others) seriously stating that beating someone up for their beliefs (no matter how despicable we may hold those beliefs to be) is an honourable act?  Intervention when an individual is actually harming another is one thing, but "roughing up" on the school bus well after the (despicable) act - which act caused no harm to ANYONE, as far as I can ascertain through the reported stories - is simply "not on".

Surely we, as Canadian soldiers, airmen, and sailors (and supporters of same) symbolize something a bit more moral, not to mention LEGAL than random vigilante beatings of perceived wrong-doers?

Should these kids have been censured?  Absolutely.  Should OTHER kids have laid a beating on them?  Absolutely not.  Period.


Roy

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

When I read the story originally in the Halifax paper they said that the teacher forced the little darling to stand...i.e. he grabbed him and lifted him out of his seat but he wouldn't cooperate so he sent him to the office. I would think the suspension was not only for refusing to take him back in class as Librarian pointed out but for physically handling him.
This is why teacher's cannot enforce discipline in the schools and why they just give up trying to get kids to take their hats off, feet off desks, etc etc. The system says they cannot touch them or yell etc. they have to ask them nicely and if they don't comply they get sent to the office. If the office gets them there enough they suspend them which only rewards them for bad behaviour as they then get time off.
I finally have both my kids through the system....I hated the whole experience and think we have one of the worst systems in the world. If I had to do it all again I'd start them in private schools at Gr 1 and bite the bullet on the extra cash outlay. It's not the teacher's fault....we have some extremely dedicated people in education but the system does not have adequate disciplinary procedures to deal with adolescents.

 

[Roy Harding]

When I read the story originally in the Halifax paper they said that the teacher forced the little darling to stand...i.e. he grabbed him and lifted him out of his seat but he wouldn't cooperate so he sent him to the office. I would think the suspension was not only for refusing to take him back in class as Librarian pointed out but for physically handling him.
This is why teacher's cannot enforce discipline in the schools and why they just give up trying to get kids to take their hats off, feet off desks, etc etc. The system says they cannot touch them or yell etc. they have to ask them nicely and if they don't comply they get sent to the office. If the office gets them there enough they suspend them which only rewards them for bad behaviour as they then get time off.
I finally have both my kids through the system....I hated the whole experience and think we have one of the worst systems in the world. If I had to do it all again I'd start them in private schools at Gr 1 and bite the bullet on the extra cash outlay. It's not the teacher's fault....we have some extremely dedicated people in education but the system does not have adequate disciplinary procedures to deal with adolescents.

I hear you, IN HOC SIGNO - I raised three intelligent young men, in SPITE of the public school system.  My wife and I did look at private schools, but decided for various reasons (mostly, but not entirely financial in nature) to keep them in the public system.  What we did was instill in them a love for learning, a thirst for knowledge, and a recognition of excellence.  We did this through a series of evening "courses" we held in such things as philosophy, mathematics, computer programming, and literature.  We did this a set of real "school type" lessons, complete with required homework - which enhanced what they were learning in the school system.  Sort of a part-time home schooling effort.

Each of these three young men are capable of critical thought, an ability much in decline in our society (at least as far as I can see), and are engaged in professional pursuits which not only fulfill them as individuals, but contribute to society in general (a Mechanical Engineer, a Psychologist, and a Nurse).  ALL of them, in my opinion, would have attempted to intervene in BOTH the original "non-standing" incident, AND the resulting "school bus" incident currently under discussion in this thread.  They would have done so in SPITE of, rather than BECAUSE of what they learned in the public school system.

My store of tales regarding systemic non-support for well intentioned teachers is rivaled only by my store of tales regarding left-wing, interventionist teachers who could not look past their own (and their union's) politics in order to foster clear, rational, and CRITICAL thought in their students.  This conclusion has only been enhanced by my own experience with post-secondary education.

We as a society are poorer for this general lack on the part of those who teach our young.


Roy