The CF policy on laser eye surgery for Pilots? Unfair?

[Grunthor]

You can wear glasses, once you're trained.

Ya but that doesn't exactly help me because I'm not trained yet, and I need glasses.  Sadly I think I'm going to have to move to Britain or the States in order to become an air force pilot .  Oh well, maybe by the time i finish university Canada's policy will have changed  :-\.

 

[Bograt]

Grunthor,

I think you would have a better chance if you grew wings. I can't even image in the timeframe or hurdles you would have to undergo to get into this trades with other nations. I'm sure it can be done, but there are easier ways to slip the bonds of Earth. If you really want to fly, here are my suggestions:

1. Civilian ticket.
2. Apply for other aircrew trades (NAV, FE, or join and later remuster as a ASEOP etc...)
3. Infantry- They are always flying somewhere.

 

 

[dearryan]

Ya but that doesn't exactly help me because I'm not trained yet, and I need glasses.  Sadly I think I'm going to have to move to Britain or the States in order to become an air force pilot .  Oh well, maybe by the time i finish university Canada's policy will have changed  :-\.

Remember years ago you could be found medically unfit by the CF if you had laser surgery done prior or during employment. However now many of the restricted trades (air crew, SAR, etc) will allow people whom have had the surgery done. So....your statement of,"by the time I finish university" is a possibility....a very slim one. You never know. I heard our friends to the south are doing some testing regarding the situation. Evolution!!!

I think the recommendations from other members would be your best bet.

Ryan

 

[medicineman]

I'm pretty sure that the aircrew restriction on laser eye surgery while you're in the service only applies to back end crew - those that require A2/4 medical categories.  I'm pretty sure that if you're a front ender at the controls, it's still a no no.

MM

 

[dearryan]

I'm pretty sure that the aircrew restriction on laser eye surgery while you're in the service only applies to back end crew - those that require A2/4 medical categories.  I'm pretty sure that if you're a front ender at the controls, it's still a no no.

MM

It depends on whom you talk to and or what time of day it is. But I have asked soem "ranking" members that SOULD know the restrictions and there does not SEEM to be many. Could change by tomorrow. ;D

Thanks

Ryan

 

[medicineman]

This is an excerpt from the most current Flight Surgeon's Guidelines.

In June 1999, a panel of highly qualified specialists from across North America met at DRDC Toronto (formerly DRDC Toronto (CFEME)) to discuss the issue of laser refractive surgery within the context of Canadian Forces air operations. As a result of these deliberations, the following revisions to the Flight Surgeon Guidelines has been implemented:


Laser refractive surgery will continue to be medically disqualifying for either entry into or retention in the Pilot classification. Quality of vision and the response of the altered cornea to ambient flight conditions continue to be a concern. Ongoing research in the United States Navy and the United States Air Force will be monitored closely with the view of revising this directive for pilots in the future.


Laser refractive surgery is considered acceptable for entry into and retention in all non-pilot aircrew classifications providing certain criteria are met. These criteria are:

1.  The member must accept financial responsibility for the procedure and any career implications resulting from a less than desired outcome.
2.  The member must obtain permission from his or her Commanding Officer for any absences or temporary employment restrictions resulting from the procedure (see below).
3.  There must be a mandatory six-month observation period from the time of surgery until return to flight status or entry into training.
4.  The Central Medical Board at CFEME Toronto must assess each member's refractive surgery documentation (current status as assessed by an ophthalmologist and report to be at least 6 months post-op) prior to entrance into training or resumption of aircrew duties. If in the opinion of CMB further ophthalmology consultation is required, the member will be assessed at CMB by the CMB consultant in ophthalmology. Travel for members, to and from CFEME for these assessments, will be treated as medical referrals. The cost's associated with these referrals will be born by the member's medical section as per Unit SOP's.
5.  The member's post-surgical refractive correction must not vary more than 0.50 diopters over the six-month observation period.

It is recognized that with current surgical techniques, a small number of patients have a loss of Best Corrected Vision (BCV). The current aircrew standards require correction to 6/6 in one eye and 6/9 in the other. If a member's BCV is below these standards after surgery, they would be rendered unfit for flight duties.


For purposes of data collection and in order to establish a longitudinal study group, the first 50 non-pilot aircrew members and/or aircrew candidates taking advantage of this revised policy will return to CFEME at 18, 30 and 42 month intervals (post-surgery) for a full ophthalmologic reassessment.


As I said - if you are A2 or A4, no biggy after your category is up.  For an A1 slot (Pilot) - still a no go.  You can slip in V category  - all it does is either changes that you may need corrective lenses or have restricted status applied to flight (ie  - no solo missions).  But for pilot, you must meet V1 upon enrollment.

Here is the link for the Flight Surgeon's Guidelines for Visual requirements: http://www.toronto.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/medical/visreq_e.html#_Toc30396231

MM

 

[dearryan]

Them's the facts. But just so we are clear...I did not mean pilots when I said,"air crew". "Can I be a pilot if I have had laser surgery" has been and will continue to be discussed at nauseom.

thanks for the facts. I probably had to call 10 members to get that info 2 months ago.

Ryan

 

[koss78a]

hello in regards to lasik eye surgery , if someone is in the military and wants to get lasik done?
would the military accomodate a schedule for the person to get it done? would the military pay for it?
thank you

 

[medicineman]

If you want it, it's out of your own pocket and your own time - most friends of mine who had it done did it on annual leave, since it's a totally elective thing.

MM

 

[Melbatoast]

We all know that laser vision correction is currently disqualifying for pilot candidates, but a personal situation has recently made the situation a little more important to me.

This document - http://www.toronto.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/medical/visreq_e.html - is the only thing I can find anywhere on the subject.  Note that the document is dated 2003, and that the laser correction review was conducted in 1999.

This is important to me because I just wrote the aircrew selection test for ANAV.  I didn't pass for that occupation (not unexpected, my BPSO says he's never seen anyone pass), but did pass for pilot.  Not only that but it was like I had a strong pilot aptitude, so much so that the BPSO was excited and even though I wear glasses right now, said I could be considered at a lower V-level.  Then we got to the laser surgery thing, and it so happens I had no-touch laser PRK done 13 (thirteen) years ago.  I don't regret it because I wouldn't be doing anything worthwhile (to me) in the military right now without it, but it's still a kick in the ass because I would very likely kill anyone to be a pilot.

At any rate I'll re-write the test later this year, with some preparation this time, and hopefully get flying soon-ish as a navigator.  But if anyone has heard anything, it may be small comfort and hope.

p.s. I'm worse than 20/20 right now because I had the surgery done when I was too young, 18 years old.  I've never had any effects.

 

[Michael OLeary]

If this requirement ever changes, I expect it will be posted here before th ink on the approving signature dries.

 

[Strike]

Reviving a dead topic to save bandwidth from starting a new thread...

CANFORGEN 069/08 CAS 014 081205Z APR 08
LASER (EYE) REFRACTIVE SURGERY IN CF AIRCREW
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. 6600-1 (CAS) 20 MAR 08
HTTP://VCDS.MIL.CA//CAS/DMCS2005/FILES0/DMCS-17864.PDF
B. 1150-1 (SSO AV MED) 22 OCT 07
C. RODS 1150-1 (CAS MED ADV) OCT 07
D. AMA DIRECTIVE 400-02 LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY FOR CF AIRCREW
HTTP://WINNIPEG.MIL.CA/1CDNAIRDIVSURG/FLTSURG/GUIDELINES.HTM
E. FSG 400-01 VISUAL STANDARDS FOR CF AIRCREW
F. A-GA-005-000/AG-001 CHAP 7 - MEDICAL STANDARDS FOR CF AIRCREW



THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO COMMUNICATE RECENT CHANGES MADE TO CF POLICY ON LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY IN AIRCREW


IN THE PAST, PILOT APPLICANTS WHO HAD UNDERGONE CORRECTIVE LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY WERE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ENTRY INTO AIRCREW OCCUPATIONS. SERVING PILOTS WERE ALSO DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY TO UNDERGO LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY TO CORRECT FOR REFRACTIVE ERRORS


AT REF A, CAS ENDORSED THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE AEROMEDICAL POLICY AND STANDARDS COMMITTEE (REF B) TO APPROVE LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY FOR CF AIRCREW INCLUDING PILOTS. THE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE MADE FOLLOWING THE CF REFRACTIVE SURGERY SYMPOSIUM (REF C) AND ARE CAPTURED IN THE AEROSPACE MEDICINE AUTHORITY DIRECTIVE 400-02 LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY FOR CF AIRCREW (REF D)


REFER TO REF A OR REF D FOR THE FULL LIST OF APPROVED/NON-APPROVED PROCEDURES


IN ALL CASES, APPLICANTS AND SERVING MEMBERS MUST STILL MEET THE VISION STANDARDS DETAILED AT REFS E AND F


AS THE CF DOES NOT YET INCLUDE LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY IN ITS SPECTRUM OF CARE, BOTH THE DECISION TO UNDERTAKE SUCH SURGERY AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE ARRANGEMENTS ARE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CF MEMBER. PLEASE NOTE HOWEVER THAT WRITTEN CHAIN OF COMMAND APPROVAL IS STILL REQUIRED BY SERVING MEMBERS PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF ANY LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY. FOR DETAILS CONCERNING ELIGIBILITY AND STANDARDS, INDIVIDUALS ARE ENCOURAGED TO CONTACT EITHER THEIR LOCAL RECRUITING CENTRE OR THEIR LOCAL FLIGHT SURGEON.


FUNDING: A CF FUNDING POLICY FOR LASER REFRACTIVE SURGERY IS UNDER DEVELOPMENT. UNTIL THIS POLICY IS PROMULGATED, EXPENSES FOR THESE PROCEDURES MUST BE BORNE BY THE CF MEMBER


QUESTIONS ON THIS MATTER CAN BE DIRECTED TO CAS MED ADVISOR CAPT (N) COURCHESNE AT 613 995-4742 AND MAJOR T. SARDANA AT 613 943-6917 OR LCOL BAIN, HEAD OF THE AEROSPACE AND UNDERSEA MEDICAL SCIENCES CENTRE AT CFEME TORONTO AT 416 635-2024

 

[WannaBeFlyer]

That's good; perhaps now the CF will no longer be short of Pilot applications. 

Wow. First they revive CEOTP, then they lower the vision requirements, and now they have approved LASIK. Good news for those who have been waiting for this policy to change!

 

[George Wallace]

........... Good news for those who have been waiting for this policy to change!

;D

For some.  Others are now too old.  ;D

 

[Kruggle]

That's good; perhaps now the CF will no longer be short of Pilot applications. 

I thought the CF had way too many Pilot applications?

 

[cp140tech]

He tacked that winking smiley in there to indicate sarcasm I think.

 

[Kruggle]

Aw. I was happy for a second as I am still trying to figure out whether I want Pilot or Aerospace. I was told today that my CFAT qualified for both and I need to know my first choice before my interview.

 

[dwalter]

;D

For some.  Others are now too old.   ;D

And some of us are still too young... To get LASIK surgery a person has to be over 21 years old, and go through a better of tests to determine suitability for the surgery. Not everyone who says "I want to get laser surgery" can actually get it. Not unless they feel like going into their dark basement and getting a friend to shine a laser pointer in each eye for a while. =P

 

[benny88]

Not unless they feel like going into their dark basement and getting a friend to shine a laser pointer in each eye for a while. =P

  I am at your service IntD.  >

  What are everyone's opinions on Lasik/corrected vision in different types of aircraft? I am in no way knocking people who fly different types, but I would think that glasses/contacts would be more appropriate flying multi-engine than say fast jets or Tac Hel, for safety reasons (Yankin and bankin, could lose a contact? And yes, I know multi-engines do tactical descents and what-not, please don't jump on me.) Also, how do contacts or laser treated eyes react to pressurized cockpits found in fast jets and multi-engines? (and training a/c, for that matter.)
  Do you think they should differentiate and restrict people with different types of correction to different types? I have no firm opinion because I don't have enough experience, but it's something I've been thinking about. Your thoughts would help.

Cheers.

 

[belka]

Lazer Eye Surgery now approved.

Aircrew - including pilots - will now be permitted to undergo certain types of Laser Refractive Surgery (LRS). In the past, pilot applicants who had undergone corrective LRS were not eligible for entry into aircrew occupations and serving pilots not able to undergo LRS.

The policy change resulted from an in-depth study and review of LRS procedures - advances in technology, outcomes of research and community standards of practice are among the reasons for the policy change.

"[LRS] is an effective procedure that will make it possible for many talented individuals, who would otherwise not have met the aircrew visual standard, to pursue an exciting career operating Canadian Forces aircraft," says medical advisor to the Chief of Air Staff, Captain (Navy) Cyd Courchesne.

Serving members and applicants who have undergone LRS must meet standard aircrew vision requirements before flying in CF aircraft and their vision will be monitored throughout their flying career. Only specific types of LRS that have successful track records are permitted. The decision to undergo LRS and the cost of the procedure, at this time, rests with the individual.

This new policy applies to all CF aircrew occupations including pilots.

The Canadian Forces has not had any difficulty attracting aircrew applicants in the past several years.  However, having an even larger pool of applicants may result in a more competitive selection process, thus ensuring the Air Force has the best aircrew responding to the demanding security environment of the 21st Century.

Two years ago, the Canadian Air Force became the first Air Force in the world to develop and implement new body measurement standards for potential pilot recruits.  The move was greeted with great enthusiasm as it was expected to open the door to many people, including  women, who had previously been denied admission into the Canadian Forces because their body types would not fit certain aircraft types.

In the past, anthropometric standards were based on statistical data gathered in the 1960s and were not tailored to specific and current aircraft cockpits.

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/news_e.asp?cat=114&id=5838