The Capital Punishment Debate

[Danjanou]

No problems here. The advances made in DNA and Forensics etc pratically ensure relatively little chance of another Donald Marshall, Morin or Millgard.

 

[48Highlander]

I have no problems with the ilk of Clifford Olson being put to death.  On the other hand, Illinois issued a picture of 75 people who had been on death row and subsequently found 'not guilty' by DNA or other evidence.

That's the whole point of death row, it gives the system plenty of time to ensure they're not executing an innocent person.  Even if your number weren't overinflated, all it would prove is that the system is working properly

 

[Jarnhamar]

I have no problems with the ilk of Clifford Olson being put to death.  On the other hand, Illinois issued a picture of 75 people who had been on death row and subsequently found 'not guilty' by DNA or other evidence.

Lets not forget to take into consider when these innocent people were convicted.

It's great that those 75 people were found not guilty due to DNA. This is an excellent argument FOR capital punishment.
DNA evidence makes "convicting the wrong man" a hell of a lot harder.  One of the biggest arguments against the death penalty, the chance of killing an innocent person, becomes smaller and smaller.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

Makes you wonder what would happen if the minds of the world united and perfected the lie detector. You could clear up court backlogs, find terrorists and most importantly screen the politicians before they are ever put in power.

 

[Armymedic]

I believe that the Death Penalty should be brought back, and used in these ways:

1. Murder of a Police Officer
2. Murder of an Judge
3. Murder of two or more persons, and
3. Causing the death (murder or manslaughter) of another person while commiting another serious crime (rape), or in commision of a crime involving a firearm.

I am not a lawyer, so forgive my lack of legalese.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think the rape and/or murder of a child should warrant the death penalty as well.

 

[48Highlander]

I think the rape and/or murder of a child should warrant the death penalty as well.

death penalty for rape?  you'd be setting the justice system back a few thousand years.

 

[Infanteer]

I think he meant rape of a child.

 

[48Highlander]

I know what he meant but that's still rather extreme.  Remember the who eye-for-an-eye thing?  I'm not a big fan of changing it to eye-for-an-eye-except-when-it's-a-child.  Rape is rape, wether it occurs to a child or an adult is a minor detail.  Either way the guy's sick and needs to be punished, but executing him would be a bit extreme.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

You wouldn't be saying that if you knew a child who had been raped and how much its destroyed them as a person.

 

[George Wallace]

I guess the Death Penalty will never come back, due to the fact that there are too many 'Bleeding Heart Liberals' to allow it.

 

[Dog]

Lets not forget to take into consider when these innocent people were convicted.

It's great that those 75 people were found not guilty due to DNA. This is an excellent argument FOR capital punishment.
DNA evidence makes "convicting the wrong man" a hell of a lot harder.  One of the biggest arguments against the death penalty, the chance of killing an innocent person, becomes smaller and smaller.

DNA evidence is not the be all and end all of the justice system, and I don't think that the argument of "the chances are pretty slim we'll kill an innocent man" holds water unless those chances are 100%. Until we gain the power to grant life to those who deserve it, we should not execise the power to execute those who we think deserve death.

I feel obligated to clarify that this opinion only applies to the justice system, and is completely seperate of my view in regards to the military and it's operations.

HOWEVER, I do think that we should have a single prison population, and that people like Bernardo and Olson should be left to their own devices amongst the rest of the prison population.

 

[Infanteer]

I know what he meant but that's still rather extreme.   Remember the who eye-for-an-eye thing?   I'm not a big fan of changing it to eye-for-an-eye-except-when-it's-a-child.   Rape is rape, wether it occurs to a child or an adult is a minor detail.   Either way the guy's sick and needs to be punished, but executing him would be a bit extreme.

Okay.  Your argument makes sense.  However, I think raping a child represents an abnormal crime - rape is one thing (it is not as uncommon and abnormal as it appears; see Ghiglieri's Dark Side of Man for an interesting look at rape as an evolutionary trait), but targeting children deserves special attention from the justice system.  When we see these pedophiles with 47 counts against them, you know that they've:

A) Destroyed many children's lives
B) Will do it again

To me, that warrants the noose, or at least long-time banishment to the Infanteer Gulag....

 

[Infanteer]

As an aside, as a suitable alternative to the death penalty I like the idea of an island where those charged with life imprisonment with no chance of parole are merely dumped off and completely forgotten - I think there was a movie about that once....

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

We could make Hans Island our version of Devils Island..

 

[48Highlander]

You wouldn't be saying that if you knew a child who had been raped and how much its destroyed them as a person.

actualy I know several, and they're all doing just fine.

you can base laws on age, but I think that's pretty silly.  one persons definition of a child is not the same as anothers, and different children mature at different speeds.  if you want to see just how dumb some of these laws are, take a look at the discrepancy in age laws around the world.  you've got age of consent ranging from 13 to 18.  legal drinking age from none, to 16 to 21.  there's no logical way to set a standard, because there's nothing logical about age-based laws.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I shake my head at people like you 48...I really do....you see nothing wrong with mj or dismiss raping of children as not as major as it is. You have to get a head on your shoudlers dude and figure out your priorities in life.

 

[48Highlander]

Okay.  Your argument makes sense.  However, I think raping a child represents an abnormal crime - rape is one thing (it is not as uncommon and abnormal as it appears; see Ghiglieri's Dark Side of Man for an interesting look at rape as an evolutionary trait), but targeting children deserves special attention from the justice system.  When we see these pedophiles with 47 counts against them, you know that they've:

A) Destroyed many children's lives
B) Will do it again

To me, that warrants the noose, or at least long-time banishment to the Infanteer Gulag....

As an aside, as a suitable alternative to the death penalty I like the idea of an island where those charged with life imprisonment with no chance of parole are merely dumped off and completely forgotten - I think there was a movie about that once....

Agreed, repeat crimes of any sort really should require some sort of different treatment.  If you have 100 assault charges and each time you've spent a week in jail, obviously it's not working.  I'd have no problem with, say, doubling the sentence on each recurrence of a crime.  You rob a store, you get two years.  You get out and do it again, you get 4 years.

Or just dump 'em on an island  ;D

 

[Manimal]

"Recent studies support the view that the death penalty does not have any deterrent effect. Rather, these studies found support for the theory that the death penalty has a brutalizing effect.

A report released in September 2000 by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates that states with the death penalty. The Times reports that during the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48 percent to 101 percent higher than in states without the death penalty.

Furthermore, FBI data showed that ten of the twelve states without capital punishment have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with capital punishment have homicide rates above. Based on the data in the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, average of murder rates among death penalty states in 2001 was 5.2 per 100,000 population in contrast to 2.9 among states without death penalty.

Comparing homicide rates in the United States and Canada and Europe additionally supports the fact that the death penalty does not have any deterrent effect. According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, the homicide rate in the U.S. in 1999 was 5.7 per 100,000 population, while in Canada, which abolished the death penalty in 1976, the rate was only 1.8. Likewise, data released by the British Home Office reveals that the United States has a murder rate that is more that three times that of many of European countries that have banned capital punishment."

http://www.amnestyusa.org/askamnesty/dp200310_4.html

 

[48Highlander]

I shake my head at people like you 48...I really do....you see nothing wrong with mj or dismiss raping of children as not as major as it is. You have to get a head on your shoudlers dude and figure out your priorities in life.

I see.  So, if someone rapes a 15 year old, they should get the death penalty.  But if he waits untill she's 16, it's ok, just give him a few years in jail.

Yeah, I'm totaly with you on this one man  :