The Canadian Rangers Merged Thread

[fredranger]

Osprey's Canadian Forces in World War II http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S3020~ser=MAA, decribes the weapons the PCMR used, from page 13;
"The Rangers at first used their own sporting guns, but were later armed with a variety of older rifles such as the Ross .303, Enfield .30-60 1917, Marlin 1936 and Savage 99; the most popular were Winchester 64 and 94 models in .30-30 calibre. Sten sub-machine guns were later issued on a scale of about one to every 15 men."

 

[Pearson]

Did a sovereignty ex in a village named Holman on Victoria Island way up north. Worked with the rangers. Couple of highlights..... :warstory:

Fire power demo on the lake.Fresh caribou (shot by the rangers), hare (hunted by the rangers by running them over with the snowmobiles to conserve ammo), small tent fire that lost my left muckluck along with the right of the guy beside me. I'm size 11 he was size 8 iirc, resulted in us not changing camp locations. Also discovered that sorrels are not as good as our booties. "Arctic Turnips". Tracking fox and ptarmigan. Polar bear watch (5 rounds each tent as this was during the days of the FN) and a white out. Ice fishing sucks... no fish lots of ice.

Rangers had a little husky pup that had his paw cut by a skate on the outside rink. Being November, it would not heal until the spring, word had it they were going to put it down. We got very attached to the little guy. One of the gang took it upon himself to smuggle the little pup home in his kitbag. Got off the plane back home, out pops the pup... named him Ranger in honour of the guys up north. every man who had room for a dog like that put their name into a hat, some guy from New Brunswick got the dog.

All in all a good experience, watched one of the rangers cleaning the carburetor of his skidoo, bare handed in a can of gas in -20 to -30 weather. 

Lots of time in the tent. Had it up to an unhealthy 80 degrees at head level when sitting.
Bodily functions of the solid variety were challenging, not to mention very quickly carried out.

Rangers were very friendly,hard, and capable people.

 

[fredranger]

The general impression I have gotten from the 1CRPG Rangers, north of 60, is they have the skills, that are a cross of, MacGyver, Davy Crockett, and the Boy Scouts. Most of them posses an uncanny circumstantial ingenuity, for complex operational difficulties (say that 10 times, really fast....).
They demonstrate their practice problem solving abilities within an unforgiving environment, with few raw materials and/or resources. They tap into their traditional knowledge base just for life and death survival. For the Rangers, south of 60, the landscape isn't so barren. For example, the Pouce Coupe patrol (which I am a part of) has plenty of natural resources available. The bush can keep you alive, if you know how to use it, for food, protection from the elements, etc. Where up north, the landscape is very different, constantly changing during the winter, extremely difficult just to get your directional bearings, we just usually get snow cover on an unchanged topography. Plus, our patrol operates in an area that is much smaller, with clearly defined geographical locations and boundaries, in just about all seasons. Here is a link  with some more information on 1CRPG http://www.cfna.forces.gc.ca/new_member/yk_units_e.asp#rangers .

 

[3rd Herd]

                          I was told that the Nco's were issued Sten Guns and that some PCMR also were issued the U.S. m-1917 Enfield rifle in .30 calibre,  maybe somebody else can help me on these 2 weapons been issued.

The Canadian Rangers, Report No.92, Historical Section (G.S.), Army Headquarters, 1 December, 1960. Antecedents 3.
http://www.forces.ca/dhh/downloads/ahq/ahq092.pdf

Directorate of History, "The Employment of Infantry in the Pacific Coast Defences (Aug 39 to Dec43)",NDHO, Ottawa 1986.
http://www.forces.ca/dhh/downloads/ahq/ahq003.pdf
As follows

"Equipment initially consisted only of sporting rifles , steel helmets and arm bands. Subsequent issues were waterproof jackets and trousers, Sten guns, 30/06 Enfield rifles and pistols."(Canadian Rangers) In addition "Sten sub machine guns, .303 and 30.06 srevice rifles, and .30-.30 US sporting rifles were issued on a scale that gave all companies an oppourtunity to carry out range practice................"(NDHQ pg.26)

In the Order of Council P.C. 1644( 23 May 1947) and the resulting General Staff Statement states "No equipment would be provided, except Rifles No. 4 Mk.I on loan"( CR pg.4). Eskimos and Indians received a 100 round allotment of ammunition for their service annually.(CR pg.11).

On the 27th of April 1951 "special authority was given Headquarters Western Command to issue 12 Bren guns and 12 Sten guns to each of the Fort Radium Platoon, ...and No.7 Company at Yellowknife because:
a) Fort Radium Platoon is compoposed of employees of the Eldorado Mining and Smelting Company( a Crown Company) and will defend the uranium mine in an emergency.
b) Yellowknife would be an important forward base in the event of operations in the North.54"(CR pg.15)

Intresting asides from the same report:

" A one time officer in the Irish Republican Army and now a resident of British Columbia, Brendan Kennelly, was appointed to instruct in guerrilla warfare"

"No. 40 Company helped RCMP capture three bandits during the previous April". (pg.16) "the bandits approached the block and looking down the business end of ten .303's realized the game was up"(17).

Choo

 

[3rd Horseman]

3rd,

  Nice notes cool you are the master of the obscure history, well done.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Hey fredranger any comments on this story from Armymatters?

Re: Is Iqaluit the best choice for a deep water port???
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 23:06:20 » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

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Quote from: geo on Yesterday at 20:26:26
Iqualuit (aka Frobisher Bay) as a deep water port sounds all nice and pretty but, it's not a port that is accessible 12 months of the year... sounds good during politickin' but nor real practical.
Lived there for a while - sealift only comes in august (aka; can't get a big boat in there before that time of year)

Then again, with Global warming - who says we're going to need an icebreaker?


Agreed with the last point. In 10 or so years, we can send a CPF up there almost year round. One of my profs went up there with the CF on a winter exercise with the Rangers to photograph what the CF did up there. Saw his presentation, and it looked very interesting. Even heard of a anecdotal story of a Ranger encountering a French nuclear sub that surfaced in some pack ice, and the Ranger took out his Lee-Enfield and popped off some shots at the French submarine, until the French realized they were being shot at.

 

[fredranger]

I truly believe that Canada has to take a stronger, more noticeable, and recognized stance on her sovereignty. If we, as a nation, claim the arctic as ours, by all means, we had better defend that claim. I think a permanent military presence in the north could very well be that answer. The Canadian Rangers are just some of the tools Ottawa has available for such a task. Shooting a sub with a .303 is going to produce very limited results. I believe more is, and will be needed. Is a deep water harbour port the answer? No, but I think it should be a good start to much more. Are armed icebreakers going to be the answer? No, once again, it's a step in the right direction. Planting a flag in an icecube doesn't make it yours, it says you been there. The trick is, preventing somebody else from taking your flag down. So far, the only real threat in the north to foreigners has been polar bears.

Near the North Pole (Apr. 27, 2003) -- During Exercise ICEX 2003, the Seawolf-class attack submarine USS Connecticut (SSN 22) surfaced and broke through the ice. This polar bear, attracted by the hole which can be used to find food, was seen through the sub's periscope and these photos were captured as the image was projected on a flat-panel display. After investigating the Connecticut for approximately 40 minutes, the bear left the area, with no damage to the sub or to the bear. http://www.ecophotoexplorers.com/miscgallery.asp
Canada needs to seriously think about what is going to be the most beneficial, cost effective, and practical means to, either defend her arctic sovereignty claim, or produce a visible and effective deterrent to would be foreign tresspassers, in that area.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

My question though was did this event happen?

 

[fredranger]

Here are a few sources to collaborate the story:
http://www.csp.navy.mil/asl/Icex03.htm
http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/bear_sub1.asp
http://navysite.de/ssn/ssn22.htm
Most of the stories have the same phrase "near the North Pole", which does make one wonder, just how close or how far were they.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2003/05/article17.shtml This one has the interesting line "Should Polar Bear File Suit Against US?"

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

LOL no I mean read my reply#20...did a Canadian Ranger fire on a French submarine.....

 

[fredranger]

You know, I have no idea, but makes you wonder, just what, if anything, they were hoping to accomplish, if this incident really happened.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think there would have been documentation and from my searching there has been none

 

[fredranger]

You think something like that would be brought to the publics attention? I could see, if it did happen, it being buried on a rug.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Why not? Other things more serious has been brought before the public eye.

 

[fredranger]

Good point.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Besides the French would lodged a complaint with the Canadian Ambassador to France and that would have been all over the news. The peace groups would have decreed the threat of anything nuclear in the Arctic because we know how a .303 would set off the SSNs reactor :

 

[fredranger]

I could just hear it now;
*translated from french*
"Up periscope."
"Periscope up."
"What do you see?"
"I see an Eskimo with a bright red sweater and a rifle of some kind."
"What are they doing?"
"He is aiming at us."
THUNK
"He has fired on us! What should we do?"
"Down periscope, dive, dive, dive."
"Say this to no one."

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Added to the above:

"should we not surrender?"

 

[fredranger]

I found this, but for the most part, I am coming up empty on the aforementioned incident.
"It has been common knowledge for more than a decade that nuclear submarines from the United States, Russia, China, France, and Great Britain pass through our territory without necessarily seeking permission from the government of Canada." quoted in part, Paul Martin, December 19, 2005. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051216/ELXN_arctic_051219?s_name=&no_ads=

 

[Armymatters]

I will try to find out the specifics of that incident from that prof, as he heard it up there, and see when it happened. And yes, the reason why the story is memorable for me is because someone in the class cracked a joke about the French and surrendering, and the entire class broke into laughter. That class (of which I took a year ago) had quite a few CF members in that class; of the 200 students, a good quarter of them were from the CF.