The C7 Assault Rifle, M16, & AR15 family (C7A1, C7A2, C7 replacment, and C7 vs M16)
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Kevin - can't really visualize you with "chipmunk cheeks"... but that's something else
C1... I need an L... never saw anyone with gouges chewed out of em... though I've know a couple that've had their Ass chewed off by their Sgt (again - something else)... cheeks from not holding their rifle tight - yup - seen em often over the years - great lesson - you only do it once - knowingly.
Found that when firing the C1, soldiers would apply themselves more and get better shooting results - with the C7 have found a big loss of marksmanship skills - I figure that it's the shooter that doesn't really respect his weapon any more.
C1... I need an L... never saw anyone with gouges chewed out of em... though I've know a couple that've had their Ass chewed off by their Sgt (again - something else)... cheeks from not holding their rifle tight - yup - seen em often over the years - great lesson - you only do it once - knowingly.
Found that when firing the C1, soldiers would apply themselves more and get better shooting results - with the C7 have found a big loss of marksmanship skills - I figure that it's the shooter that doesn't really respect his weapon any more.
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Mmmm agreed. I always blame my sight for my poor marksmanship, never my rifle.
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Hey Kev, nice to chat again.
Concurr - basic & simple iron sights made the shooter pay a lot more attention to what he is / was doing. Scopes, to a certain degree provide too much visual input. Old rotating disk or even older peep sight forced you to concentrate on what you should be doing.
Concurr - basic & simple iron sights made the shooter pay a lot more attention to what he is / was doing. Scopes, to a certain degree provide too much visual input. Old rotating disk or even older peep sight forced you to concentrate on what you should be doing.
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Geo - the LFRR site has no real equip areas for me to badger.. 
I really like optics - the allow the shooter to hit under many more conditions, quicker and with greater accuracy.
that said - they cannot be used as a crutch (and the C79 is a terrible combat sight - but that later) BRM must be taught with irons. One on one with a coach - and a coach who knows what he is talking about not some dope who can regurgitate the marksmanship pricnciple but someone who can practically apply them (about 1 in 100 NCO's these days)
I really like optics - the allow the shooter to hit under many more conditions, quicker and with greater accuracy.
that said - they cannot be used as a crutch (and the C79 is a terrible combat sight - but that later) BRM must be taught with irons. One on one with a coach - and a coach who knows what he is talking about not some dope who can regurgitate the marksmanship pricnciple but someone who can practically apply them (about 1 in 100 NCO's these days)
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Hey Kev,
still workin on en to upgrade the old site - maybee..... some day.
Shooting skills deteriorated about the same time as the iron sight was taken away.
Yes - optics have their place but the decline of our shooting capabilities started with the hacking off of the old iron sight...
I find that most Reg & Res units don't do enough rifle training & this hasn't helped. Did some rocket scientist @ the Puzzle palace figure out that with the addition of the M79 sight the CF could cut back on marksmanship training?
If anything, those people who don't have a regular oportunity for live fire training would probably be better off being restricted to iron sights for their range qualifications.
Again - a personal opinion - and everyone has at least one
Chimo!
still workin on en to upgrade the old site - maybee..... some day.
Shooting skills deteriorated about the same time as the iron sight was taken away.
Yes - optics have their place but the decline of our shooting capabilities started with the hacking off of the old iron sight...
I find that most Reg & Res units don't do enough rifle training & this hasn't helped. Did some rocket scientist @ the Puzzle palace figure out that with the addition of the M79 sight the CF could cut back on marksmanship training?
If anything, those people who don't have a regular oportunity for live fire training would probably be better off being restricted to iron sights for their range qualifications.
Again - a personal opinion - and everyone has at least one
Chimo!
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I just refuse to use the C79 ;D
EOTECH HDS is coming on line for the 031's - ideal for CQB stuff - little lacking for tgt detection/discrimination - but maybe we will but into the X4 magnifier and the 552 EOTECH with lithium 123 batteries.
I still beleive a mix of system is need for troops to do their jobs - but I'm only a Cpl and I dont have a PEng or MSc so my opinion is not relevant :
EOTECH HDS is coming on line for the 031's - ideal for CQB stuff - little lacking for tgt detection/discrimination - but maybe we will but into the X4 magnifier and the 552 EOTECH with lithium 123 batteries.
I still beleive a mix of system is need for troops to do their jobs - but I'm only a Cpl and I dont have a PEng or MSc so my opinion is not relevant :
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Kev, don't go modest on me
have seen & read some of your research
I concurr that there should be a mix of systems available - but before you let anyone loose with any kind of optical sight - ensure that said individual can handle marksmanship principles and the iron sight..... with that under his belt, can pretty much grow into whatever system comes to hand.
have seen & read some of your research
I concurr that there should be a mix of systems available - but before you let anyone loose with any kind of optical sight - ensure that said individual can handle marksmanship principles and the iron sight..... with that under his belt, can pretty much grow into whatever system comes to hand.
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+1geo said:
Unfortunately that does not happen much anymore. A buddy of mine doing reflexive shooting this week had his technique "corrected" by a M/Cpl (who did not know the first thing about shooting, too wit his is the ND king) Unfortunately some in the CF equate rank with knowledge...
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agree with you Kevin,
CF has screwed the pooch with the C79 and we're stuck paying the bill.
Now someone has to figure out a way to get us out of this fine pickle...
Still contend that the detachable iron sight should be issued out to all C7 drivers so that basic marksmanship skills can be developed.... and if that means that a Cpl gives out pointers to the Sgt & the WO then - so be it.
CF has screwed the pooch with the C79 and we're stuck paying the bill.
Now someone has to figure out a way to get us out of this fine pickle...
Still contend that the detachable iron sight should be issued out to all C7 drivers so that basic marksmanship skills can be developed.... and if that means that a Cpl gives out pointers to the Sgt & the WO then - so be it.
"I always blame my sight for my poor marksmanship, never my rifle."
Now that reminds me of a story ("OK", y'all ask, "what DOESN'T remind you of a story?").
Was shooting PWT fall of 99 getting ready for Roto 6, and I was having some difficulties. To whit: failing. So we get to Wainwright to continue on a 'conventional' range, and the problem persists. On the plus side, we now have a HUMAN butt party, and the target ho said "You were bang on until serial___ then everything ended up dumping to the right. Immediately, not gradually, and consistantly to the right."
Hmmmm...
So I bring in said carbine to the gun plumbers - verdict: loose barrel. Gun plumbers re-attach bbl using their favourite colour of nail polish (what - ever), and my C8 shot like a charm after that. Me too.
Tom
Now that reminds me of a story ("OK", y'all ask, "what DOESN'T remind you of a story?").
Was shooting PWT fall of 99 getting ready for Roto 6, and I was having some difficulties. To whit: failing. So we get to Wainwright to continue on a 'conventional' range, and the problem persists. On the plus side, we now have a HUMAN butt party, and the target ho said "You were bang on until serial___ then everything ended up dumping to the right. Immediately, not gradually, and consistantly to the right."
Hmmmm...
So I bring in said carbine to the gun plumbers - verdict: loose barrel. Gun plumbers re-attach bbl using their favourite colour of nail polish (what - ever), and my C8 shot like a charm after that. Me too.
Tom
Jay4th
Member
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I don't believe the C79 is to blame. I dont believe that individual lack of respect for the weapon is to blame either. IMHO the culprit is clearly training time.
I cannot remember when the last time I was on a firing line where every shooter had a coach, let alone maybe a coach for every three shooters. It wasn't this decade or the last one.
When was the last time anyone on a DND range was firing just for practice?
When did ARSO become synonymous with coach?
Can anyone name 3 senior NCO's that agree on which way to spin the damn dial?
We abreviate the Shoot to live program, run all in one rainy morning.
We accept groups that are way huge, RSO's yell "Lets f****ing go, we got three more relays.
Then we get charged when we yell at the RSO cause the damn computer isn't recognizing our shots.
Thanks alot for the paycheck , but I'll do my training on my own time.
I cannot remember when the last time I was on a firing line where every shooter had a coach, let alone maybe a coach for every three shooters. It wasn't this decade or the last one.
When was the last time anyone on a DND range was firing just for practice?
When did ARSO become synonymous with coach?
Can anyone name 3 senior NCO's that agree on which way to spin the damn dial?
We abreviate the Shoot to live program, run all in one rainy morning.
We accept groups that are way huge, RSO's yell "Lets f****ing go, we got three more relays.
Then we get charged when we yell at the RSO cause the damn computer isn't recognizing our shots.
Thanks alot for the paycheck , but I'll do my training on my own time.
Jay4th
Member
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I was just being thorough in my recce before opening my big angry mouth.
The C79 isnt going to get any better now that everyone leans like hell on it to close the reciever with 'buffer elastometric" installed. Don't get me wrong, the thing totally soaks up the slop in an overly worn rifle.
The C79 isnt going to get any better now that everyone leans like hell on it to close the reciever with 'buffer elastometric" installed. Don't get me wrong, the thing totally soaks up the slop in an overly worn rifle.
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Jay4th said:
Ah the Accu wedge ;D - what a fricking waste - worn guns shoudl be N/S and refrubished - inc reannodizing.
I swear I could pulled enough useless parts off the C7A2 to have money for a complete C8SFW (inc KAC RAS) for the 031's - w/ EOTECH HDS...
Jay4th
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Next month when we get th C8FTHB as they are now marked there will only be enough for sgts, mcpls.
It seems to me that strapping the M203 to one would be a good idea since that is the whole reason for the barrel profile. However, I just looked and nowhere in CFAO's does it say that stuff has to make sense. If anyone knows of any more accessories I can hang from my muzzle I'm listening. Maybe a second side mounted C79 as a backup....
It seems to me that strapping the M203 to one would be a good idea since that is the whole reason for the barrel profile. However, I just looked and nowhere in CFAO's does it say that stuff has to make sense. If anyone knows of any more accessories I can hang from my muzzle I'm listening. Maybe a second side mounted C79 as a backup....
I bought an 'Accuwedge' at a gun show in Duluth, Minnesota, in 1988. I never used it. I thought that if you had too much slop between your upper and lower receiver (caused by trying to close the rifle with the pin pushed back in, usually (oops!), the accuwedge might just exacerbate it. When they started putting them in ALL of the wpns, I laughed. I told my guys to take them out. They will cause more harm than good. Rifle team, OK. Recce Sqn Crewman, no.
Tom
Tom
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Since Sgt's and Jacks typically get pistols on tour - and they never search houses anyway - they send us "expendable crewmen"(TM) I can never figure out the logic of issuing only 2 C8FTHB / SFW(w/o RAS) / section.
Then on you get eveything - and noone (especially Sgt's and M/Cpl's) know how to use/employ it properly.
Like you said Jay, thanks for the paint bullets, I had a great day - but I'll do my training on my own ;D
Then on you get eveything - and noone (especially Sgt's and M/Cpl's) know how to use/employ it properly.
Like you said Jay, thanks for the paint bullets, I had a great day - but I'll do my training on my own ;D
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