The Agent Orange and Its Repercussions Thread

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Some more "things" coming back to haunt?

http://chealth.canoe.ca/health_news_details.asp?news_id=15474&news_channel_id=0
Contractors find potential toxins at military site
Aug. 25, 2005

GREENWOOD, N.S. (CP) -- A defence contractor has recommended the military further investigate several dump sites a former soldier claims contained so many toxins he became sick with cancer.

A final report by MGI Ltd. suggests more work be done in "three areas of interest" where sub-surface metal anomalies were identified following an excavation of an area of Nova Scotia's Camp Aldershot.
"They found pieces of metal that were somewhere between the surface and two metres down," Capt. John Pulchny said Thursday at CFB Greenwood. "The next step will be to determine what that metal is."

Pulchny said the military is considering the recommendations from the Fredericton-based company and will decide in the coming months how best to determine what's in the ground.
That could include digging further test pits and drilling wells to take more samples, work the military hopes to complete by Christmas.

The area was also used as a landfill, so Pulchny said the metal objects that were detected could be non-toxic.
The investigation began following allegations by a retired soldier that he was ordered to bury barrels of a thick, toxic sludge he says caused several ailments including cancer.

Bill Coleman, a former army private, said that he and others were ordered in 1961 to bury drums of toxic chemicals they had dredged from the bottom of Peach Lake inside an artillery range at Camp Aldershot.
Coleman, 69, said he and his colleagues hauled up the barrels in the lake, causing an oily material to rise to the surface. On the third day, he noticed dead frogs and turtles in the lake, and a persistent burning in his eyes and face.

The military also recently tested samples of the lake water, but found only slightly increased levels of mercury. It plans further testing of the lake.
Coleman, who has lost many of his friends to cancer, said they recovered pieces of barrels and hauled them to an area to dispose of them. They then were ordered to hose down their truck and were given a change of clothes to replace the boots, gloves and oilskin clothing they had to wear.

Coleman said that six months after dredging the lake, he and some of his co-workers began to feel ill, lacked energy, and he developed sores on his head and hands.
Coleman, who has suffered from bowel, prostate and skin cancer, went to the training camp with the contractors to point out where he thought the burial site was located.

Coleman decided to come forward with his claims after consulting doctors and hearing about allegations of toxic exposure at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick. Several people there have said they were exposed to Agent Orange and other chemicals at the base in the 1960s.

 

[medicineman]

I've been skimming through this thread, so missed some posts for sure, but all this hue and cry about the US military testing here in Canada during the 60's kind of overshadows the fact the what we know as Agent Orange was actually developed by Connaught Labs in Ottawa in the 30's - it was likely tested/used in Canada long before the war in Vietnam.  Just a bit of food for thought.

MM

 

[ArmyRick]

Bill Coleman handled these chemicals in the 60s and now in the 2000s has developed cancer? I have a friend of mine who works closely with oncologist and we discussed this issue. He gave me some good points about cancer to think about.  I would look at ALL the toxins Mr Coleman was exposed to in the more recent years of his life.
Cigarette smoke, car fumes, household cleaning products, paints, pesticides, factory waste, etc, etc.

There are ALOT of so called everyday chemicals that can lead to cancer that we are exposed to everyday. Whats worse is they are so called safe to handle products.

Being exposed to some nasty chemicals and than developing cancer 40 years later and beleiving that it was the chemicals you handled 40 + years ago?  Come on the human immune system is much stronger than that. I personally don't buy it.  If those chemicals were the cause, Mr Coleman would probably have died of cancer long time ago. 

Before anybody climbs down my throat about being insensitive, I do sympathize for the victims and their families, I lost a relative very recently to cancer.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

I am pleased to see that your interested enough to discuss the problem of chemicals... and yes, every day we are exposed to many dangerous chemicals...
I am not sure I would take your friend to seriously since most oncologist are unfamiliar with the dioxins involved with THIS problem.  Oncologist themselves work with some pretty dangerous chemicals when they administer Chemo. I have tried to become educated and have learned that the dioxins talked about when talking about CFB Gagetown, are actually the most damaging... and the 'soups' of chemicals are certainly in question.

It has been said that everyone's body is touched by cancer at some time (true or not, I have no idea) but our immune systems do conteract the damaged cells and the problem can pass without us being aware... Now, think about this, the dioxins cause mutation of the immune system and with these damaged cells the body tries hard to fight off the cancerous cells.. How long can that battle go on with a damaged immune system?  I think no one can really answer that. The dioxins get stored in the body fat, and the person gets older (not knowing that this battle is going on). This person thinks it is time to lose some of the excess weight that has gathered over the years. In losing that weight the dioxins are released back into the system to compromise it again. Well I am no scientist but, seems to me that the body can just suddenly give up the battle... and the cancer gets a free pass to really attack. How long can we have cancer before it is diagnosed?  You and I are not in a field that can understand all this but I do know what our doctors told my husband and that is that he had cancer for at least 10 years before it was caught at least that is what they guessed... could it have been longer?  So being exposed in the 60s, the immune system battling, then the immune system again be attacked by the stored dioxins, could someone develop diagnosable cancer after 25-30 years, then go thru remission to have cancer flare up again, go thru treatment (which can be painful) only to have cancer flare up again?.... hmmmmm... Cancer does not get diagnosed in weeks or months after exposure to chemicals... and cancer is not the only illness that results from dioxin exposure.

Someday even scientist might understand what actually happens to the human body that allows our bodies to be affected by chemicals and develop cancer but it happens and it does happen many years after the exposure... and the mutated reproduction system passes THIS Gagetown problem onto our children and grandchildren, that at least is a fact that has been accepted by scientists. Education about chemicals and knowing what to do IF we are exposed can be an important key. The people in Gagetown were told that such chemicals were not used there and so no one knew what was making them ill. Doctors did not know why they were ill. Now, we are standing up to protect the next generation by asking for a cleanup and honesty in the future so that a person can know when and if they were exposed to a chemical that could cause problems....
I hope we can all become better educated by having these open discussions.

I had to respond because my husband was exposed in the 60s. He retired in early 80s and never worked at another job. He was having medical problems since late 60s but no one could diagnose his problems until he was struck with cancer and diagnosed at age 62. His medical problems were problems that his family history could not explain. No one in his family has ever had cancer.  In January we were told by his oncologist that he was terminal and had 14-20 months to live, he died in May (that is 4 months) so, do oncologist know all?... I have to say no but they sure do try and I respect them for what they do. Our daughter was born in 68 with malformed hip joints, no family history of this type of problem and she was told, at the age of 34, she should have hip replacement so she could walk... hmmmm... I have to end by saying, we all need to learn more and cancer medicine and knowledge is still struggling in unknown waters. What chemicals do to our bodies is a mystery too. Bill Coleman's story might be the same as mine and my husbands.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

by Kenneth Dobbie;  As posted at www.agentorangealert.com
Some time has gone by since the release of the information concerning the chemical defoliation of CFB Gagetown, I want to add a few facts.

2,4-D + 2,4,5-T (which the Americans called Agent Orange & Agent Purple) was negligently sprayed on the training area of CFB Gagetown from 1956 to 1964.

In 1964, there was a spraying accident involving a temperature inversion, which caused the Dioxin-laced spray to drift across the Saint John River to the market gardens of communities from Burton to as far down-river as Jemseg, primarily in the Sheffield to Maugerville area. However, the entire distance covered by the spray was 29 kilometres.

(I know the distance, because I drove the old river road in these communities in June 2005 and I clocked the distance as being 29.3 kilometres) The crops on all these farms were destroyed and the Crown compensated the farmers for the loss of their crops by paying them a total of $250,000 in 1964.

This was not the first time this had happened.

According to the August 8th, 1964 edition of the Fredericton Daily Gleaner and I quote:

"Meanwhile, Camp Gagetown officials are not too concerned about the situation. One officer said complaints of crop damage were received every year"

Mr. Baker, project engineer and local head of Defence Construction Limited
(A division of DND) said that: "...Compensation for fair and reasonable crop damage after due investigation has been paid in the past and will be paid in the future" Mr. Baker said.

This admission shows that there were similar spraying accidents BEFORE 1964.

One has to wonder just how toxic the vegetables were in successive years, because we all know that Dioxin is a persistent and bioaccumulative toxin. Since Dioxin has a half-life of over 10 years in the soil, it makes a person wonder what happened to all the people's health who consumed vegetables grown in these market gardens in the immediate years after 1964. Keep in mind that these market gardens supplied produce to the entire Fredericton area and some of them exported their vegetables to other parts of New Brunswick as well as out of the province.

These farms grew vast quantities of vegetables. One farmer is reported to have lost 25,000 tomato plants in the summer of 1964

In 1965, for a number of factors, one being the spray accident, secondly because the military were not satisfied with the kill ratio of Agent Orange, they switched to using Tordon 101 for the next twenty (20) years until 1984.

Tordon 101 is Agent White, which contained 2,4-D, plus Picloram in a 4:1 ratio. The deadly part of this mix was Picloram, which contained Hexachlorobenzene (HCB).

According to the EPA website: www.epa.gov/pbt/hexa.htm

"Because Hexachlorobenzene (HCB) is persistent and bioaccumulative, it stays in our environment for a long time and contaminates our food chain. HCB can cause severe health problems for humans and other wildlife.
· Damages bones, kidneys, and blood cells
· Can harm the immune system
· Lowers the survival rates of young children
· Can cause abnormal fetal development
· Harms the liver, endocrine, and nervous system
· May cause cancer
Again, to emphasize, this persistent, bioaccumulative toxin (BCT) was sprayed for twenty years from 1965 to 1984.

Our military and government of the time approved the extensive use of these persistent, bioaccumulative defoliants and even strengthened the mix to achieve a greater kill ratio.

In total, from 1956 to 1984, our governments and DND sprayed over 1.3 million litres of persistent bioaccumulative toxins, Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene, over an area of 181,000 acres of the CFB Gagetown training area.

Any person coming in contact with these persistent toxins would have been poisoned. People in the training area were assured that there was no danger to their health, numerous veterans have stated this fact. But the fact is that anyone going into the training area would have been poisoned if they travelled in the spray areas. Since the government sprayed 181,000 acres which is more than one third of the acreage of the training area, it became inevitable that travel, or staying in various parts of the training area exposed and poisoned people. Later in their lives, the poisonous toxins would have already done the damage in the form of all kinds of disorders, diseases and cancers.

So when the government says that the spraying only occurred in 1966 and 1967, remember the facts. They are lying and their lies are only being compounded by their deceit and stupidity in thinking that this is going to go away.

Mr. Blaney has been given an enormous task to find the truth.

Let us hope that he does and when he does that he communicates that truth to the government that they were and are responsible for making thousands of people sick, dead or dying.

However, given the facts that we already know, I personally do not see the need for a fact-finding committee. The facts are already known, thus the only real way to get to the truth of what happened at CFB Gagetown is to call for a public inquiry.

I urge all Canadians to contact your MP and demand a public inquiry into our government and military who wilfully contaminated an area with deadly toxins that was to be used by personnel both military and civilian. And that toxic contamination resulted in death, disablement and sickness in thousands of people.

I urge all of you who read this to contact your MP and ask them to demand a public inquiry when Parliament resumes later this month.

A public inquiry is the way to the truth.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

Yesterday makes it 4months since Mike died... 4 months of waiting for autopsy results... no update as yet
I have spent several years of trying to get answers and our government is still dragging their feet while citizens suffer.
The bottom line of this story is NOT going away and we should all educate ourselves as more information comes to light.


Agent Orange: A Toxic Legacy
    A Multi-part Series Uncovers New Information, New Victims and Debate
    Surrounding Public Inquiry

    VANCOUVER, Sept. 21 /CNW/ - Beginning Wednesday this week, Global
National launches a special series searching for justice and accountability
for thousands of Canadians who say they are sick or dying as a result of
secret military spraying of Agent Orange and other toxic defoliants at C.F.B.
Gagetown. An investigative team led by Global National anchor, Kevin Newman,
Jacques Bourbeau in Ottawa and Ross Lord in New Brunswick has uncovered
startling answers to questions the federal government has been dodging for
decades.
    "Agent Orange: A Toxic Legacy" not only reveals Ottawa's fast-shifting
story about how much and what kind of deadly chemicals were used but exposes
new information about where the spraying occurred that could have
repercussions across the entire country.
    Global National has also learned that the federal government was worried
about the harmful effect of spraying herbicides at least two decades ago. Why
wasn't more done to raise the alarm? Others are now raising questions about
the lingering effects that may still pose a danger to both soldiers and
civilians.
    Now, with a growing sense of betrayal among legions of soldiers and
civilians exposed to Agent Orange and other dangerous herbicides, the
government is finally launching an investigation, but there are already angry
accusations of cover-up, bias and indifference. Some fear they will never see
the compensation they say they deserve.
    "This is going to surprise a lot of Canadians," said Kevin Newman, anchor
of Global National. "We want to know that our government has our best
interests at heart and that those who serve our country in the military will
be recognized for their duty. The people we spoke to are angry and frustrated
that they lived with toxic chemicals in their community and that the
government has taken so long to respond to their concerns." In fact, many
victims have banded together and launched a class action lawsuit against the
government.
    Global National with Kevin Newman will broadcast this multi-part series
beginning Wednesday, September 21. Global National with Kevin Newman airs
nightly at 6:30 p.m. in Ontario, Quebec and Alberta. 6:00 p.m. in Manitoba and
Saskatchewan. 5:30 p.m. in British Columbia, and 11:15 p.m. in the Maritimes.



For further information: contact: Karen Williams, Junior Publicist,
Global Television, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Inc., (416) 446-5530,
kwilliams@globaltv.ca

 

[Sandy Skipton]

This thread started in Feb03 as a request for information... It seems no one has any rememberance of the event that we asked for information about. My husband was ill and we needed to prove he had been in Gagetown since we are claiming he was exposed to AgentOrange there. We needed DVA help.
On May12 05, we received the second reject letter concerning his claim. Rejected because we could not prove he was there and (I quote) "There is no documentation to indicate that you required medical attention as a result of an exposure to AgentOrange"  At this time, May05, the government was still denying the scientific documents after having denied for 40yrs that such chemicals were even being sprayed at Gagetown. We had included copies of documents that AmericanVA had accepted his medical complaint on their list of AO accepted illnesses.
On May15 05, Gloria Sellar released her story, and that of her husband Brigadier-General Gordon Sellar, many of us thank both for being so open and brave to step forward. The news release can be read at  http://www.blackwatchcanada.com/dcforum/DCForumID12/5.html#
On May21 05, my husband died. He never knew that there were others like the Brigadier-General. He died thinking he was being foolish to even submit this claim. "A waste of time. No one will believe me" Those were his words. "Keep up the fight and prove it for so many others!" Those too were his words.
On May 22 05, our family doctor with the family, sent my husband for an 'investigation due to AgentOrange' autopsy to carry on his quest to prove his exposure.

That is the short story. Now an update
I was informed yesterday that my husbands file ('investigation due to AgentOrange' autopsy) had been sent to a major center (Halifax) because the local hospital (one of the large regional hospitals of NovaScotia) is understaffed. It is expected that the report could be ready in about 8 weeks.
I did not know that it could take 6 months for an autopsy to be performed...

I am becoming paranoid here...  ???
NO person has a memory of the event we outlined??...  (most likely all have died, I expect my husband was the youngest member of the team.)
NewsPapers, covering the time of the incident, were turned over to Dept of Defense at their request??... I have a letter to that effect from UNB
My son, who lived just down the road, was denied a compassionate posting request and transferred??... This during the same time as he is going thru a G4-04 medical and preparing to retire after 25 yr service.
Minister of Defense has no time to respond to several emails, starting on Jun22??
My local member of parliament returns no calls??

Just an interesting story about one service member and the trials and torture a family can go through. This family is strong. My son, the one transferred, will return since he has served 25yrs and will be retiring soon. I am strong and I do not intend to let this go until we understand what the heck is going on/has gone on. I promised an update and I will continue to keep, those that are interested, updated as time goes by..... Sandy Skipton, former wife of a very brave MAN

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

  http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/10/13/1260938-cp.html

Tories eye Agent Orange inquiry
   
FREDERICTON (CP) - Two Conservative politicians in New Brunswick are calling on the federal Liberal government to make fundamental changes to the inquiry into the Agent Orange controversy at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown.
New Brunswick MP Greg Thompson and Jody Carr, a member of the provincial legislature, say people simply don't trust Ottawa's investigation into the use of chemical herbicides at the sprawling base in southern New Brunswick.

The head of the federal inquiry recently resigned, citing health problems, and Carr and Thompson say Ottawa should use the opportunity to restructure the entire investigation to make it more independent and open.
They are recommending an arm's length technical review committee and a speedier compensation process for the hundreds of people who believe their health was harmed by exposure to herbicides used at the base from the 1950s to the 1980s.
Fredericton MP Andy Scott, the senior New Brunswick representative in the federal Liberal cabinet, says he welcomes the recommendations.

He says Ottawa is moving quickly to find a new co-ordinator for the investigation.
Thompson and Carr believe Ottawa has not been sincere about the inquiry, but has been using it as a public relations exercise designed to stall payment of compensation.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

Search for Agent Orange barrels reveals metal traces Last updated Oct 14 2005 04:09 PM ADT
CBC News

A dozen sites have been identified at CFB Gagetown as places where empty barrels of Agent Orange may be buried
The engineering company Marine Groundwater Inc. has been exploring the base following allegations from former soldiers that chemical drums were buried after Agent Orange spray operations in the 1950s.
The search for barrels began mid-summer, in the wake of allegations that dangerous defoliants used on the base may have damaged the health of soldiers and civilians.
Its engineers discovered 12 suspicious locations in their search for buried chemical barrels.
Some nearby residents suspected the army buried drums used for Agent Orange and other dangerous herbicides.
Some veterans, including John Chisholm, who served on the base are also suspicious. "Some people I talked to have mentioned that some barrels of that might still be buried there," he said.
MGI representative Mike Sauerteig explained the results at a news conference on Friday. "Our findings indicate that there are metallic anomalies present. The information we have would not tell you whether it is a drum or whether it is a small metal objects of some sort."
Base Commander Col. Ryan Jestin says even with records indicating some of the burial sites, he's not convinced about what was actually buried. "If it's something that may contain contaminants and again this is pure speculation, but once we determine what it is by scraping off the top layers of the soil, then we're going to the next level which is to actually excavate it."
Jestin says the military will hire a private company to dig up all 12 sites to find out whether the metal traces indicate the presence of buried contaminants. Results of those digs are expected in mid-November.
Several veterans of the Black Watch who trained on the base during the Agent Orange spraying are watching this investigation closely.
Earl Graves is one of them, and likes what he's seen so far. "I'm satisfied with the presentation today. Col. Jestin covered alot of ground and the current concerns that we had, he covered those, and what concerns we have we won't know until they get that stuff dug up and know what it actually is."

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Residents demand Agent Orange answers Last updated Oct 13 2005 04:33 PM ADT
CBC News

People concerned about the effect of herbicide spraying at CFB Gagetown are applauding efforts by two politicians to expedite the investigation.
MP Greg Thompson and MLA Jody Carr are urging the federal government to change its approach to the problem so the public knows more about what's happening.
John Chisholm lived and worked at Base Gagetown until 1970. He wonders whether chemical spraying during the 1950s might have contributed to his wife's death. "She was breathing that stuff, it was in her hands. Possibly my kids were into that. How far does this go?"
Chisholm is just one of hundreds of Gagetown-area residents who want answers from a government investigation into the program, which sprayed Agent Orange over the base during the 1950s.
Carr and Thompson held a news conference Thursday to demand a better method of gathering information. They say government efforts to provide answers to residents have been weak. They say a fact-finding body that held two hearings this summer and whose leader has resigned never had enough power.
The two conservatives have come up with recommendations they say will improve the investigation. They say Ottawa has too much power over the probe and want researchers to have more indepedence. They want more research to be made public and to focus on testing for poisonous dioxins. They also want the government to pay for some blood tests speed access to compensation for victims.
Carr says the current program is too complicated. "Currently there's three convoluted compensation processes, three different criteria, three different entitlements, and it's unfair. So we want this commitee to make specific recommendations and provide action so that we can fast-track compensation so that all those victims that have been hurt will be helped quicker."

 

[childs56]

The worst thing isn't just what has been sprayed on Military bases. During those times our governments allowed the use of many pesticides, and herbicides right up to today. What effects has this had on people and their health. 

Most military bases have contamination of numerous chemicals. I would figure the common ones would be oil and fuel. Until the last few years soldiers use to spill POL all the time, and never clean it up. (every time you filled with a jerry can, topped up oil) We hide behind our rules, regs and environmental laws now a days and act as if we didn't do anything wrong before.

I would hate to see what comes of the final enquiry as to the level of contamination of all CF bases. For the most part, it was us the Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen that polluted our own areas, spilling fuel, kicking over that paint buckets.

We look at what causes all these health problems, and we most certainly have to look at our own fault for the majority of them. Not wearing PPE, being lazy and not cleaning up the mess we just made.

I in no way mean to take away from what the investigation in Gagetown and other bases are going through right now. I also don't mean to insult the suffering of people  affected by the type of contamination that has resulted. For the most part we did a lot of it to ourselves, threw lack of training, or inability to understand how things would effect us.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

http://www.newglasgownews.com/
Wednesday, October 19, 2005
The Betrayal of the Black Watch Jennifer Vardy

The barrels lay on the side of the road, with a strip of orange or purple running around them to signify their contents.
The planes would swoop over the area, dumping the sticky chemicals on the foliage below, then set down and fill their canisters again.
Some people, like George Megeney, were sprayed directly. Some rubbed against the chemical where it landed on the foliage. Some even drank it, because the only water available while training was from the streams and rivers that had been sprayed.
"We didn't know what those planes were dumping, but it left an awful taste in your mouth," said ex-Black Watch member Ken Langille. "It was oily, like kerosene."
In June, 1966, one of the largest live fire exercises ever held in the British Empire got underway at Gagetown. Participants included military forces from England, Scotland, the United States and Canada. Among them was the Black Watch, a regiment that was stationed at CFB Gagetown in Oromocto, N.B.
"It was live fire, so there was live artillery. The Americans did a napalm drop," said Westville resident and former Black Watch member Hugh MacKenzie. "Unbeknownst to us at the time, the Americans were also spraying the area with defoliant. We later found out it was a combination of Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White."
The herbicides were dubbed Agent Orange and Agent Purple by the Americans because of the colours associated with them on the barrels.
Soon afterwards, the litany of health problems began. Black Watch members are dying at a young age. Most of the 1,000 members were only in their early 20s when they were exposed, and of those, about 300 have died already, many not living beyond their early 50s.
But the ex-Black Watch members say it wasn't just the military members who were affected. Their spouses and their children - even those who hadn't been born yet - experienced serious health issues.
"Everyone here has a story," MacKenzie said of the two dozen former Black Watch members that live in Pictou County. "If you go around this table, you'll hear the horror stories. If it's not their health, it's their wife or their children."
MacKenzie's eldest daughter was one of the children who was severely affected. She was born in 1969 without the top of her mouth. Over the years, she's required 20 surgeries to correct the problem, which finally ended with a bone graft.
"The hell she went through..." MacKenzie said, shaking his head. "She was our firstborn, and we had to go to a veterinarian to get a long nipple that we could put on her bottle so the milk would go down her throat."
She can't have children, either, and MacKenzie thinks his other three children are probably sterile as well.
"It's always been my wife's wish to have grandchildren, but we've kind of accepted that's not going to happen," he said.
Many other children were born with spina bifida, some had such severe birth defects they died shortly after birth and there are countless instances of cancer.
Even the former members of Black Watch that are healthy right now fear that they could suddenly be stricken with a new medical problem.
"Everybody here has been in the hospital for one reason or another related to Agent Orange," said Middle Brook resident George Lees. "I'm healthy right now as far as I know, but next month I could go in for tests and they'd find something wrong. I think it's in all of us."
There were nine people in Lees platoon. Of those, four have already died, one of brain cancer. His wife had cancer of the arm as well, which he blames on the Agent Orange.
"We wore our clothes home and our wives had to wash them," he said. "We were covered in the spray."
Many of the ailments aren't always visible, but they do cause a lot of suffering, Langille added.
"We all have a lot of health problems in our lives, but we have to live with it," he said. "We have some good days and some real bad. Today's bad. I've got aches and pains right from my neck to my tailbone, I've had bowel problems and stomach problems for years, too. All of us have suffered."
Although there's no way to definitively say the ailments were caused by exposure to Agent Orange, similar symptoms in American soldiers who served in areas where the chemicals were sprayed has resulted in immediate eligibility for benefits.
Symptoms in those cases included adult-onset diabetes, 11 types of cancer, bowel disease and heart attacks. Vietnamese officials also claim that the effects of Agent Orange are ongoing, as a disproportiontely large number of children are still born with genetic defects, both mental and physical, in the areas that were heavily sprayed.
Research in the U.S. and Vietnam has shown that Agent Orange is filled with dioxins, which are extremely toxic to humans. Dioxins accumulate in the body and cause cancers. Anyone eating or drinking in contaminated areas then receives an even higher dose, according to Vietnamese doctors studying the effects of the chemical.
To date, only a handful of monthly disability pensions have been issued to a Canadian for Agent Orange exposure.
"They used us as guinea pigs to test something on us that didn't have to be tested," said MacKenzie. "They didn't consult us, but they invaded our bodies. They didn't need to test it, they'd already tested it in Vietnam."
Megeney said it's even worse because it was for the benefit of the American government.
"The government had a whole generation of guys like us," Megeney said. "We were mostly uneducated, children of working people, who were subjected to very dangerous chemicals without our consent. And it wasn't even for their own purposes. It was for the benefit of the American Marine Corp. That just makes it all a little bit worse. Our own government permitted them to do this."
Many of the men questioned what they were spraying, Megeney recalled, but were told it wouldn't cause them any harm.
"Even if we knew different, you couldn't complain to your superiors back then," he said. "You'd be labelled a complainer and you'd be out. You did what you were told and you kept your mouth shut."
It's left the former military men angered as they lobby the government to do something to recognize their health issues.
Many of them - along with their dependents, like MacKenzie's daughter - have entered a class action law suit against the government, demanding recognition.
The suit was filed in July and is currently waiting to be accepted by the courts.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

I am expecting to have an update shortly.. After I have a meeting with my doctor to have my husbands autopsy report translated into layman english....
Some of you might be keeping up with the AgentOrange information by checking out www.agentorangealert.com website. For those that don't check that website, I am including a new request for your consideration...

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"Base Gagetown and Area Fact-Finders' Project,
witness protection program needed"    written by Ken Young


We Need some help from all ex soldiers and Civilians alike that might have been affected by Agent Orange, Purple, White, Green to name a few of the stuff that was dumped on us soldiers who trained in Gagetown between 1956 and 1984. This includes Families that lived in PMQ and the people that lived in the surrounding area during that same time frame. We could use the help of family and friends of the people affected also because numbers do count when it comes to getting anything from the Government.

There are more then a few witnesses that want to come forward with documentation and facts that have not yet been presented to the general public, however they are afraid that they may loose their pensions, AO settlements and some even fear jail time. High ranking Officers and Corporate Officials not to mention the people that actually did the spraying at this time have their hands tied, or better said their mouths shut, by the Official Secrets Act, Corporation Confidentiality Oaths and Pension & Settlement Non disclosure Clauses.

We need everyone or as many as possible to write to the Newspaper in their towns, to their MP's and even to the PM and ask that there be some form of protection for them that testify in front of the BGAFFP, so that more people do come forward. If the Whistle blowers act was in effect we would be alright but our fearless leaders in their infinite wisdom have been stalling on this one.

I find it hard to believe that our Government could refuse us that much after all is said and done, we are both after the truth or so I am told. If the Canadian Government really wishes answers they must protect people that may have Military of Corporate restricted or confidential documents and who may wish to hand them over to the BGAFFP in their mission.

Some of these people are already sick and dying and they don't need Jail time to be added to their load.

Thank you Guys in advance.    To sum things up we need a "BGAFFP witness protection program".

Ken Young
Nanaimo, BC
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[Bruce Monkhouse]

Thought this might liven things up here,
Quote from 3rd Horseman,[ from the "Army Culture" thread]
  A note on all the Agent Orange hype,

  I was not around back then but served under those that were and I dont believe for a second that any of them would have put soldiers in harms way. That being said the facts about Agent Orange are very clear for those who are inside the mil but appear to be clouded outside. A few points on AO
  Agent Orange was sprayed (two barrels) in two places on the base by US contractors no forces were near or at ground zero.
  The residual effects of AO are not present enough to rub off onto a soldiers uniform or persist in the soil or water after a period of time. Soldiers did not exercise in the two test areas after the spraying until much later if at all.
  AO is a combination of two herbicides that those same soldiers back in the 60s could have bought at a hardware store for usage on there own lawns.
  The whole thing is just a little blown out of proportion. Not to take away from the real problem of the 20 year herbicide spray program which was conducted by civilians who after long periods of exposure of mixing and spraying probably have gotten ill, they deserve the review and the compensation.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

hmmm.. I find it interesting that 3rd Horseman would comment that he was not there... and he served under those that were... Brig/General Sellars was a leader there and he died due to AO... DVA accepted his claim after he fought for 15 yrs..    then there is the lists that have been shown in this thread of just what was sprayed, that information was taken from DND documents available via access of information.  The quote from 3rd Horseman was made without an effort to read any information about the subject....

More and more of the BlackWatch are stepping forward to tell their stories... I would be ashamed to say any of the BlackWatch would add to a 'HYPE"  Perhaps the ones that were there are very clear on the facts about Agent Orange and KNOW the facts more clearly than those that came later.... I further noticed no mention of the Agent Purple or Agent White that were also sprayed.. this is not JUST about AgentOrange... btw.. AO is chemically comprised of the same chemicals as what were sprayed from 1956 til 1967 then Agent White was sprayed til about 1984. This hype about Gagetown is about Chemicals... deadly chemicals that were not all called AO since some of them were sprayed before the Americans 'nicknamed' the chemical composition 'Agent Orange'

anyone that would like to educate themselves on this topic should check out www.agentorangealert.com
no insult is intended towards 3rd Horseman

 

[3rd Horseman]

Miksam,

    The post from bruce was a cut and paste from another area and was out of context.

Non the less it does not change the substance of what I believe and what I know. I did read all the posts on AO and I have a detailed knowledge of AO and Base Gagetown. I stand by my belief that AO was not an issue at CFB Gagetown that does not mean I dont believe that the 20 years of spraying herbicides by some civi workers did kill them or cause severe medical impairments. One must remember that the substance AO and the other herbicides sprayed were legal chemicals that anyone could buy at the local hardware store and spray at home. The contention from the other thread is that it was not done on purpose that is the out of context part.

Go to the base talk to the people in charge they have no axe to grind they wont lie or cover anything up they will tell you the truth.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

I can agree with you that at the time it was legal chemicals that were sprayed... BUT, when it was found that the chemicals were damaging to people and then the government found that people were dying, THEY did nothing...
They are still doing NOTHING... As more and more people asked questions they continued to do NOTHING... well they did set up a 'fact-finding mission' that will listen to our sad stories, that was nice WOW!!!  The facts are already known so why are they wasting $800,000 dollars to continue doing NOTHING?

THEY could have let Medical Service in the area of Gagetown know, so that if someone came in with symptoms, they could be properly treated... THEY could have let Military Medical Service know so that if a member developed a medical problem, they could have been properly treated... Instead THEY did NOTHING... My husbands symptoms showed up right after the exposure but could not be diagnosed. At that time he and maybe DND did not know about the symptoms of DIOXIN exposure. His symptoms were documented. The Base Surgeon was just as confused... and that continued throughout his time served. These symptoms and the symptoms of many many people could have been better handled IF "THEY" (DND/Government) had not lied and denied what THEY knew...

Now facts are being exposed. The main fact is that lots of questions were asked.. The government answered with saying they never sprayed such chemicals... LIE    DVA, at first told me that there were no chemical exposure problems concerning CFB Gagetown... LIE  Now the truth is coming out only because people are coming forward to talk.

You tell me... should a member have to fight for proper medical service at the same time they are fighting to protect Canada?  Think about all the members that have returned, lately, from Africa, with medical problems and had to fight for recognition of their medical problems...

My husbands body was damaged by these chemicals, just as many other people were damaged. YES, it is a fact that Miltary members can expect that to happen. BUT he could have had better 'Quality of life' if THEY had been truthful and his life could have been extended if THEY had been truthful... Think really hard. DO YOU THINK THE GOVERMENT IS TRUTHFUL???  All any of us are asking is for OUR government to be honest with the citizens of Canada... IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK?

If you, 3rd Horseman, have detailed personal knowledge of AO and Base Gagetown, I am asking you to share it because all truth pro or con MUST come out... btw I have gone to Gagetown, I have spoken to serving members there and I agree that the CO seems to want the truth, but even he is being held back because he has no control over who is testing or what is being tested and he also has a job that he MUST do... Can he closed the training area until the testing is completed? NO  Does his budget cover more involved testing? NO  Has he informed the soldiers being trained there or the instuctors about the 'possible' dangers? NO because that might slow things down.... Lets be honest all way around and look at this from all sides... I was a CO myself, for a small unit, a weekend soldier but I still know that a CO is just another Military Member that has to answer to the DND. DND is part of THEY 'Government' and government have LIED  "PROVEN" by their own documents. Our Miltary Members are the BEST that there is and we/they deserve the best. NOT LIES.   
At this time AOAC (AgentOrangeAssociation of Canada) is only asking for a public inquiry into this matter so that people who have signed 'Confidentiality Agreements' can come forward to speak out, with protection from legal action against them. Let us hear the complete truth and then we can all decide...

 

[Sandy Skipton]

Can anyone out there help with the request below?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Art Connolly

It has been brought to my attention that a request has been made to the University of New Brunswick's Harriet Irving Library for copies of the CFB Gagetown military newspaper that were published prior to 1968.  Below is a portion of the response:

"In reference to your initial question concerning our holdings of the
Oromocto Post Gazette, UNB has either the originals or copies on
microfilm starting with the date of April 11, 1968. This paper with
various titles, started publishing under its initial banner Camp
Gagetown Gazette on December 16, 1960. A year or so ago, the results of
contacting by phone various departments: local library, Gagetown
Military Museum, CFB Gagetown's Public Affairs Office, staff at the
newspaper, National Archives, National Library and the Department of
Heritage, and the Department of National Defence Library produced no
earlier copies of this paper. Of note, staff at the newspaper had
indicated they believed the papers they had stored were transferred to
the Department of National Defence as requested."

Why is DND requesting that copies of papers prior to 1968 be transferred to DND? Are they hiding something?

Anyone who may have copies of any of these papers please advise me at  webmaster@agentorangealert.com   

 

[George Wallace]

Why is DND requesting that copies of papers prior to 1968 be transferred to DND? Are they hiding something?

Anyone who may have copies of any of these papers please advise me at  webmaster@agentorangealert.com   

It looks to me like you are looking for a conspiracy where there is none.  Many Newspapers, especially small ones, will empty out their basements of their old copies.  They try to find a Museum or Archives that will accept them.  In this case, you are probably looking at this practice having been done in the past, with relevant copies being sent to DND historical archives.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

re-read the posting I made ...
The quote is from a letter written by the University of NB .. they retain a microfilm of pretty well all NB newspapers in their archive but the papers referred to were missing.. much to the surprise of the Univ.. so they investigated and tried to locate them in a list of places, with no luck.
So now, what is being asked is that anyone having any papers "Oromocto Post Gazette" dated prior to 1968, please contact webmaster@agentorangealert.com

 

[Acorn]

As it was a military (base) paper at the time, it was likely treated differently - like a unit newsletter, rather than a newspaper. I would guess that, since it started publishing in 1960 and the first copy on microfilm is 1968, it is simply an oversight, or it wasn't considered important enough, or maybe there wasn't the budget to microfilm it.

In any case, if it was a base paper/newsletter I doubt you'd find anything you're looking for. Have a look at current base papers for examples of the type of editorial content you'd likely see. Not very controversial stuff in them.

Acorn