TCCC Shoulder Bag aka The Med Murse
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medicineman
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St. Micheals Medical Team said:
That's why you tuck it up in your underwear or wear spandex
.MM
PhilB
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St. Micheals Medical Team said:
I have a carbine and occasionally a pistol as well. I wear the bag directly behind me, sitting basically in the small of my back. You barely notice that it is there, and it does not interfere with either weapon. Again, slinging it forward is extremely easy and quick.
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Maybe a couple pictures so that they can see where you carry it, and how it 'deploys'. With your after market rig, and maybe one with the TacVest, as well? Not trying to tell you how to do your job, just trying to make it easier for the rest of us to envision.
I am the 'First-Aider' for my cadet corps, and I always carry one of those big 'Bag, Green, Red Cross on top' when we are out doing stuff. I carry it over my butt as well, so I know what you mean. I am very tempted to get one of these though, it looks like it would not make my butt look so big (in keeping with the male nurse theme ;D )
Thanks for the great review
I am the 'First-Aider' for my cadet corps, and I always carry one of those big 'Bag, Green, Red Cross on top' when we are out doing stuff. I carry it over my butt as well, so I know what you mean. I am very tempted to get one of these though, it looks like it would not make my butt look so big (in keeping with the male nurse theme ;D )
Thanks for the great review
At the risk of reviving a necrothread, I'd like to add my review for the ICE TCCC bag- mine finally arrived the other day.
Phil has plenty of pictures up, so I'll dispense with that. The only difference is that mine ahs the elastic loops in the rear compartment that Phil had mentioned would be added to all future models.
The bag is alrger than I had expected from looking at the pictures Phil posted- I'm not sure what I had expected, but it's simply alrger than I thought it would be. No problem though; TCCC supplies don't weigh much, and I still think it's many times more convenient than the issued leg bag. There's no trail of medical breadcrumbs left on the ground when you suddenly had to move in a hurry and the pouch wasn't properly closed. Gravity does a ncie job of holding everything in its palce.
Right now I have loaded and organized 7 field dressings (4x Israeli, 2x CF, in the main bag; 1x OALES bandage in one of the expterior pouches), 4x CAT tourniquets (three in the other outside pouch, one inside the main pouch), my shears in the same outside pouch as the dressing, several pairs of gloves, 2 packs of compressed gauze, four or five rolls of rolled gauze for wound packing, 2 triangular bandages 3 Asherman chest seals, 2 pneumothorax kits, 2 NPAs with the tubes of lube taped to them, a fistful of different sized Tegaderm bandages, 2 disposable breath valves, Quickclot (in the rear pouch, with a couple more packs to be added once I get in theatre), casualty triage cards, and a couple of field dressing wrappers for occlusive dressings. It all fits well with some room to spare. I intend to add a couple NPAs, and maybe lighten up on the gauze (replacing a couple of CF or Israeli dressings with OALES dressings gives me spare gauze to work with anyway). Other than that I'm ahppy with the loadout.
The weight is negligible, though of course it does have some bulk to it. I could add mroe stuff, but I should be good with this. The bag holds it well, with plenty of elastic loops for sorting and organizing The exterior pouches are very well sized, and there are three rows of four-channel MOLLE webbing between the two front pouches, leaving you with many options for additional stuff. I have my eye on a collapsible dump pouch as one possibility- somewhere to toss my leather gloves while I'm working on someone, or whatever else may arise.
All in all, a very well designed and thought out piece of kit. I reccomment it to anyone who will be employed as TCCC.
Phil has plenty of pictures up, so I'll dispense with that. The only difference is that mine ahs the elastic loops in the rear compartment that Phil had mentioned would be added to all future models.
The bag is alrger than I had expected from looking at the pictures Phil posted- I'm not sure what I had expected, but it's simply alrger than I thought it would be. No problem though; TCCC supplies don't weigh much, and I still think it's many times more convenient than the issued leg bag. There's no trail of medical breadcrumbs left on the ground when you suddenly had to move in a hurry and the pouch wasn't properly closed. Gravity does a ncie job of holding everything in its palce.
Right now I have loaded and organized 7 field dressings (4x Israeli, 2x CF, in the main bag; 1x OALES bandage in one of the expterior pouches), 4x CAT tourniquets (three in the other outside pouch, one inside the main pouch), my shears in the same outside pouch as the dressing, several pairs of gloves, 2 packs of compressed gauze, four or five rolls of rolled gauze for wound packing, 2 triangular bandages 3 Asherman chest seals, 2 pneumothorax kits, 2 NPAs with the tubes of lube taped to them, a fistful of different sized Tegaderm bandages, 2 disposable breath valves, Quickclot (in the rear pouch, with a couple more packs to be added once I get in theatre), casualty triage cards, and a couple of field dressing wrappers for occlusive dressings. It all fits well with some room to spare. I intend to add a couple NPAs, and maybe lighten up on the gauze (replacing a couple of CF or Israeli dressings with OALES dressings gives me spare gauze to work with anyway). Other than that I'm ahppy with the loadout.
The weight is negligible, though of course it does have some bulk to it. I could add mroe stuff, but I should be good with this. The bag holds it well, with plenty of elastic loops for sorting and organizing The exterior pouches are very well sized, and there are three rows of four-channel MOLLE webbing between the two front pouches, leaving you with many options for additional stuff. I have my eye on a collapsible dump pouch as one possibility- somewhere to toss my leather gloves while I'm working on someone, or whatever else may arise.
All in all, a very well designed and thought out piece of kit. I reccomment it to anyone who will be employed as TCCC.
RubberTree
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I like the way you have packed the bag...the picture of the shears and the gloves in one pouch made me a little nervous.
If you are still looking for a name....
Over the Shoulder Medical Holder
OSMH
Pronounced "Awesome".
If you are still looking for a name....
Over the Shoulder Medical Holder
OSMH
Pronounced "Awesome".
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On my TCCC course right now, and doing very well. If I pass I'm probably going to be a TCCC for my tour in 2010, and as part of my kit study I now have to add TCCC pouch to the kit list. Being in the recce squandron, most our casualties come in 4s (vehicle crew size); so, I want to have enough kit in the vehicle to handle 4 badly mangled guys. Of that, the amount I want on my person would be enough to treat my crew for anything that happens while dismounted. (Half in my ruck, half on my vest).
I'd like the pouch to have a velcro backing for attachment to either the side of the CF vest, or the back of a panel that has molle/daisy chain webbing on the other side for mounting to a modular platform should they be approved. The velcro isn't critical, as I'm sure once I find a pouch I could get a custom modification done. I just want to be able to easily remove it from my person or ruck when I need it most (pull a couple quick-release tab or side release buckles and rip it off).
I'm also looking for critique on what I plan on carrying, should I have more or less of certain items, if I'm missing anything, etc.
On my person I want a pouch that can handle the following:
- 3 x CATS
- Shears
- 3 x Israeli dressings
- 3 x Compressed Guaz
- 3 x ARS Needles
- 3 x Triangular Bandage
- 3 x Quickclot
- 3 x NPA
- 3 x NPA Lube
- 3 x Tegaderm Transparent Dressing
- 3 x Marking Booklet Thing
- 3 x Quikclot
- 3+ x Pair of Small Gloves
- 3 x Mouth Breathers
In the ruck I'd plan on carrying the same amount of kit, plus 6 Asherman Chest Seals just to keep any curious bigwigs happy.
While the Asherman chest seal is a neat concept, my TCCC instructors fresh from the sandbox repeatedly state how the Asherman fairls in the hot Afghan conditions on hairy soldiers chests. Being a very hair guy myself, I stuck a seal on one of my less hair areas to see if it would stick. For the most part it stuck to the hair, but not to the skin. With Derma Bond or a shaved chest the results could have been different, but I doubt that in any situation overseas where a guy would actually need the application of one that he has the time to spare for me to apply derma bond or start taking the hair off his very sweaty chest... In addition to me being so pumped that I'd actually have the dexterity in the hot clammy gloves to properly apply dermaond or shave a chest. As such, I'd rather not waste any room by throwing them in. So I asked one of the medics about making a 3-sided seal instead with the transparet dressing, applied with extra Gun Tape to hold it down. They approve of the idea, saying it would serve the same purpose, as the new ARS needles don't need a one way valve over them.
Like I said, in addition to looking for a good pouch, I'm looking for critiques of my planned kit load of the more experianced guys out there.
I'd like the pouch to have a velcro backing for attachment to either the side of the CF vest, or the back of a panel that has molle/daisy chain webbing on the other side for mounting to a modular platform should they be approved. The velcro isn't critical, as I'm sure once I find a pouch I could get a custom modification done. I just want to be able to easily remove it from my person or ruck when I need it most (pull a couple quick-release tab or side release buckles and rip it off).
I'm also looking for critique on what I plan on carrying, should I have more or less of certain items, if I'm missing anything, etc.
On my person I want a pouch that can handle the following:
- 3 x CATS
- Shears
- 3 x Israeli dressings
- 3 x Compressed Guaz
- 3 x ARS Needles
- 3 x Triangular Bandage
- 3 x Quickclot
- 3 x NPA
- 3 x NPA Lube
- 3 x Tegaderm Transparent Dressing
- 3 x Marking Booklet Thing
- 3 x Quikclot
- 3+ x Pair of Small Gloves
- 3 x Mouth Breathers
In the ruck I'd plan on carrying the same amount of kit, plus 6 Asherman Chest Seals just to keep any curious bigwigs happy.
While the Asherman chest seal is a neat concept, my TCCC instructors fresh from the sandbox repeatedly state how the Asherman fairls in the hot Afghan conditions on hairy soldiers chests. Being a very hair guy myself, I stuck a seal on one of my less hair areas to see if it would stick. For the most part it stuck to the hair, but not to the skin. With Derma Bond or a shaved chest the results could have been different, but I doubt that in any situation overseas where a guy would actually need the application of one that he has the time to spare for me to apply derma bond or start taking the hair off his very sweaty chest... In addition to me being so pumped that I'd actually have the dexterity in the hot clammy gloves to properly apply dermaond or shave a chest. As such, I'd rather not waste any room by throwing them in. So I asked one of the medics about making a 3-sided seal instead with the transparet dressing, applied with extra Gun Tape to hold it down. They approve of the idea, saying it would serve the same purpose, as the new ARS needles don't need a one way valve over them.
Like I said, in addition to looking for a good pouch, I'm looking for critiques of my planned kit load of the more experianced guys out there.
PhilB
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Canadian Mind,
Here are some responses to your post, keep in mind that this is coming from an infantry TCCC perspective. There are tons of guys that are much more knowledgeable on the medical side, and I am not experienced in operating out of a coyote, that being said:
1. In reference to pouches, by ruck do you mean an assault pack or are you planning on carrying your ruck everytime you are dismounted?
2. I would be really hesitant to rely on velcro to attach a pouch. You are going to want something more substantial, try looking at the ICE or ATS tear off pouch if you are looking at a velcro option.
3. When you are considering a pouch, consider how you are going to operate out of the pouch. Are you going to be able to access your pouch while it is attached to your vest? Will you be able to reattach/close whatever pouch you plan on using if you have to transition back into care under fire?
4. The more pouches, and places that you have medical stuff stashed the harder it will be to find stuff when you are under stress, remember KISS. Keep in mind that you should be using that patients kit first, as opposed to the stuff in your kit.
5. Again, a caveat, I am not a medic so those more knowledgeable please feel free to shoot down my opinions, but based on my experience I would change your load out a bit. I dont see a need to carry three packets of quick clot. From what I was taught quick clot should be used as a last alternative. In my tour, despite treating two multiple amputee patients I did not use quickclot once. I was able to control bleeding with pressure/ TQ. I carried only 1 pack of QC. I would carry more kerlix, what are you planning on using three triangular bandages for? I found tagaderm had the same issue you are mentioning about the asherman, they did not stick at all. Dermabond works great and doesnt require much dexterity just pour it on! I would carry WAY more gloves than 3.
Obviously YMMV
Here are some responses to your post, keep in mind that this is coming from an infantry TCCC perspective. There are tons of guys that are much more knowledgeable on the medical side, and I am not experienced in operating out of a coyote, that being said:
1. In reference to pouches, by ruck do you mean an assault pack or are you planning on carrying your ruck everytime you are dismounted?
2. I would be really hesitant to rely on velcro to attach a pouch. You are going to want something more substantial, try looking at the ICE or ATS tear off pouch if you are looking at a velcro option.
3. When you are considering a pouch, consider how you are going to operate out of the pouch. Are you going to be able to access your pouch while it is attached to your vest? Will you be able to reattach/close whatever pouch you plan on using if you have to transition back into care under fire?
4. The more pouches, and places that you have medical stuff stashed the harder it will be to find stuff when you are under stress, remember KISS. Keep in mind that you should be using that patients kit first, as opposed to the stuff in your kit.
5. Again, a caveat, I am not a medic so those more knowledgeable please feel free to shoot down my opinions, but based on my experience I would change your load out a bit. I dont see a need to carry three packets of quick clot. From what I was taught quick clot should be used as a last alternative. In my tour, despite treating two multiple amputee patients I did not use quickclot once. I was able to control bleeding with pressure/ TQ. I carried only 1 pack of QC. I would carry more kerlix, what are you planning on using three triangular bandages for? I found tagaderm had the same issue you are mentioning about the asherman, they did not stick at all. Dermabond works great and doesnt require much dexterity just pour it on! I would carry WAY more gloves than 3.
Obviously YMMV
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1. Based on what I went through in Suffield, and from the guys coming back, the ruck stays at the FOB, while the assualt pack goes with me in the vehicle. I never had either on me while dismounted. It's more just a stash of supplies within reach should the shit really hit the fan.
2. Velcro would be one means of attachment. I primarily want that so I can slap it onto the side of the CF issued rig should chest rigs not be allowed on my tour. I'd like or perfer something with a set of side release buckles that can be attached to the metal buckles on the vest via 1 inch straps so i can quickly release and attach the thing as the situation dictates.
3. I want to be able to rip it off and use it on the ground in a hurry. Less cumbersome. If I have to switch from TFC back to CUF, simply being able to slap it closed and attach one or two buckles to keep it on me while I get the casualty out of harms way woudl be ideal.
4. I want one large pouch i can open right up and have easy access to everything. All I'd have to do is pull a tab and instantly a set of H&H, Isreali Bandage, Triangle bandage, and set of gloves are available. all the extras can be tucked into their specific spots.
5. I'll take your experiance into consideration re. Quikclot, gloves, and kerlix. As for triangular bandages, I honestly haven't got a clue what i'd use the damn thing for aside from what everyone knows from Standard First Aid. I was issued two too use on 2 separate people, so I figured if I'm configuring the kit on me to treat the other three people in my callsign, I should include 3 bandages. Maybe it was the product we were using on course, but the little plastic viles of dermabond we have on course are impossible to use at the best of times, it's like a liquid-polish applicator, but no easy application. What we did apply took over a minute to set and bond to the skin.
Thanks for tips.
2. Velcro would be one means of attachment. I primarily want that so I can slap it onto the side of the CF issued rig should chest rigs not be allowed on my tour. I'd like or perfer something with a set of side release buckles that can be attached to the metal buckles on the vest via 1 inch straps so i can quickly release and attach the thing as the situation dictates.
3. I want to be able to rip it off and use it on the ground in a hurry. Less cumbersome. If I have to switch from TFC back to CUF, simply being able to slap it closed and attach one or two buckles to keep it on me while I get the casualty out of harms way woudl be ideal.
4. I want one large pouch i can open right up and have easy access to everything. All I'd have to do is pull a tab and instantly a set of H&H, Isreali Bandage, Triangle bandage, and set of gloves are available. all the extras can be tucked into their specific spots.
5. I'll take your experiance into consideration re. Quikclot, gloves, and kerlix. As for triangular bandages, I honestly haven't got a clue what i'd use the damn thing for aside from what everyone knows from Standard First Aid. I was issued two too use on 2 separate people, so I figured if I'm configuring the kit on me to treat the other three people in my callsign, I should include 3 bandages. Maybe it was the product we were using on course, but the little plastic viles of dermabond we have on course are impossible to use at the best of times, it's like a liquid-polish applicator, but no easy application. What we did apply took over a minute to set and bond to the skin.
Thanks for tips.
PhilB
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Hi Canadian Mind,
From the sounds of the pouch you are looking for I would suggest something along the lines of the ATS tear away pouch (available here http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=oneshot&Product_Code=MP-ATS-0005&Category_Code=) or the very similar ICE Tactical med pouch (available here http://www.icetactical.com/pouch-detach_med.html). If you get a modular side panel from CP gear (here http://www.cpgear.com/StoreBox/tacvestaccessories/4047.htm ), either pouch will interface well with the tacvest, or with a chest rig. Either pouch would allows you to tear the pouch away from your vest. Hope this helps.
From the sounds of the pouch you are looking for I would suggest something along the lines of the ATS tear away pouch (available here http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=oneshot&Product_Code=MP-ATS-0005&Category_Code=) or the very similar ICE Tactical med pouch (available here http://www.icetactical.com/pouch-detach_med.html). If you get a modular side panel from CP gear (here http://www.cpgear.com/StoreBox/tacvestaccessories/4047.htm ), either pouch will interface well with the tacvest, or with a chest rig. Either pouch would allows you to tear the pouch away from your vest. Hope this helps.
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Seen and Seen, though neither have pics of the interior layout, so I'll give em a call tommorow.
Thanks so much!
Thanks so much!
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The best way to get intouch with us at ICE is to email us at paul@icetactical.com . That way things don't get lost in mix.
Cheers,
Paul
Cheers,
Paul
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Filled or empty pouch avalible.
http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=oneshot&Product_Code=MP-TKN&Category_Code=FA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HdQXUgzYz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKbXabQH7Gc&feature=related
http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=oneshot&Product_Code=MP-TKN&Category_Code=FA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HdQXUgzYz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKbXabQH7Gc&feature=related
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Farmboy said:
I don't think that would make a good TCCC pouch, atleast not for me, for two reasons:
First is the amount fo kit it holds.
If thats all the kit that can be fit into it (based on the loadout in the video), I just don't see it being enough for mass-casualty situations or my own personel use.
If I have to go from Tactical Field Care back to Care Under Fire, how am I supposed to pack that thing back up in a hurry? The zippered ones are bad enough, but having to intricately fold it and fit it into a slot while being shot at? Thats a no-go.
Not really a problem for me personally, but it might catch the SSMs eye; it isn't available in CADPAT AR or TW.
I could see it being used as an individual first aid kit for a guy who's got an arm blown off or badly injured, but not for the TCCC.
But I could be wrong on one or more of the above points, so if anyone more qualified or more experianced in the medical field of things has differing opinions, feel free to shoot down mine. I'm still learning here.
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It will fit more than it comes with. You can easily fit two Oales dressings, CAT or SOF-T, and other gear.
A number of the combat medics are using the CTOMs pouch which holds three tourniquets on the outside and tons of gear inside.
I take some heat for this but some of the TCCC things I've heard about seem out to lunch. One is the fold up strechers, guys were looking for a pack that carries this and the medical gear. Put it in the vehicle or procure some of the roll up strechers.
Fold it once like a wallet and shove it in the pouch. That's it. Doesn't get much simpler.
Tons of gear over there is not Cadpat, probably more than is.
A number of the combat medics are using the CTOMs pouch which holds three tourniquets on the outside and tons of gear inside.
I take some heat for this but some of the TCCC things I've heard about seem out to lunch. One is the fold up strechers, guys were looking for a pack that carries this and the medical gear. Put it in the vehicle or procure some of the roll up strechers.
Fold it once like a wallet and shove it in the pouch. That's it. Doesn't get much simpler.
Tons of gear over there is not Cadpat, probably more than is.
PhilB
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Darren,
As far as the stretchers go, lots of troops aren't operating in the vicinity of vehicles any more. The problem with the small role up skedco stretchers is that when covered in blood they become VERY slippery. After one incident where the stretcher completely failed to carry a casualty our platoon got rid of them. I dont like having to carry a fold up stretcher anymore than the next guy but at least it will carry a casualty. Our platoon had access to several netting type stretchers made by a 3VP rigger from A7A straps that worked quite well.
As far as the BFG pouch goes, from the one I have seen in person, I would say it would be to small to be used successfully as a TCCC pouch. I think the CTOMS pouch or the ATS large medical pouch that I linked above would be much better suited to a TCCC.
As for color, you hit the nail on the head, color doesnt matter to much. It all looks the same when covered in moon dust!
As far as the stretchers go, lots of troops aren't operating in the vicinity of vehicles any more. The problem with the small role up skedco stretchers is that when covered in blood they become VERY slippery. After one incident where the stretcher completely failed to carry a casualty our platoon got rid of them. I dont like having to carry a fold up stretcher anymore than the next guy but at least it will carry a casualty. Our platoon had access to several netting type stretchers made by a 3VP rigger from A7A straps that worked quite well.
As far as the BFG pouch goes, from the one I have seen in person, I would say it would be to small to be used successfully as a TCCC pouch. I think the CTOMS pouch or the ATS large medical pouch that I linked above would be much better suited to a TCCC.
As for color, you hit the nail on the head, color doesnt matter to much. It all looks the same when covered in moon dust!
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It matters while I am using the pouch for training in country and down in California.
I think I'm going to continue to research the two pouchs Phill suggested. Still haven't fired off that email yet, should get too it.
At present I'm favoring the ICE Detachable Med Pouch, as it appears to only need a single clip to get it closed and on my body in a hurry, while the other pouch would need to be folded (not something I want to fuck with when getting tagged by the enemy).
I think I'm going to continue to research the two pouchs Phill suggested. Still haven't fired off that email yet, should get too it.
At present I'm favoring the ICE Detachable Med Pouch, as it appears to only need a single clip to get it closed and on my body in a hurry, while the other pouch would need to be folded (not something I want to fuck with when getting tagged by the enemy).
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