Tan berets and other CANSOFCOM, JTF, and CSOR fashions [1st split: CSOR]

[McG]

There is also going to be a CANSOF capbadge coming down the pipe soon.

but    why?  They will have a tan  beret, a CANSOFCOM  command pin, there will be hazard badges for operators (JTF or CSOR).  If they want, they will  have the option of a formation patch aswell.  How much "I'm special" decorations are required (okay, the skill hazard badges are more than an "I'm special" but not the other items).  The next step will be CANSOFCOM specific DEU.                                                         

 

[Zoomie]

  The next step will be CANSOFCOM specific DEU.                                                          

There's an idea - bring back the summer dress DEU and give them all to CANSOFCOM - they will match their berets.

 

[Mamma Bear]

Well seen the berets first hand and they look awesome so far all the support trades here in Pet are wearing them....with their own Trade Badges so far so good a few double takes but hey its the changing military and Good Luck to them all...........

 

[Kev T]

I seem to sense a lot of negativity generated towards CANSOFCOM and it's subordinate units having a tan beret, specific capbadge, and possible command badge. First of all these are all acroutments that pretty much standard in every other unit. Every regiment/corps has specific collar dogs, a capbadge, specific shoulder titles...etc. Secondly why shouldn't they have their own capbadge, command badge, etc? I mean they are a separate unit in the forces and like any other unit should be entitled to wear insignia that separates them from other units and designates an individual as belonging to a certain unit. This isn't to say that someone is elite or special it's just that this person so happens to be in CANSOFCOM. For example why do paratroopers get maroon berets and jump wings? Why do the PPCLI wear different collar dogs than the RCR? Why do Highland regiments wear kilts and balmorows? A soldier shouldn't want to be a part of special forces just because he wants to look cool. If someone really wants to have a tan beanie or any other special insignia then that person can try out for selection and soon reality will set in HARD. A beret or badge doesn't make a unit special, it's the people.

 

[gnplummer421]

Sometimes negative comments on these types of issues depicts jealousy...I can't have what they have, so it upsets me. I think it is good to have something like this (Tan Beret) it promotes pride in uniform and gives young recruits another reason to work hard to earn this privilege. With regards to support trades wearing the same Beret..I don't know, I was a tradesman, and although it would be cool to wear one, I don't think I would want to, especially if I didn't go through the same hardships as the Combat arms guys. So my 2 cents is, no, support trades should not wear them unless they go through the same training as the Combat Arms.

 

[painswessex]

Well seen the berets first hand and they look awesome so far all the support trades here in Pet are wearing them....with their own Trade Badges so far so good a few double takes but hey its the changing military and Good Luck to them all...........

Not all of us are yet. Until the CO gives it to you personally, you cant wear it. only 427 is wearing them because they have been given them.

 

[buzgo]

The commander of CANSOFCOM is personally giving them to everyone. I believe that CSOR won't get them until the course is done, and that was LCol Hammond's decision.

 

[Popurhedoff]

The Commander of CANSOFCOM personally shakes everyones hand on parade,  it was a nice parade.  Near the end of the parade during the final speech, our Commanding Officer took out a "Tan Wedgie" and presented it to the CANSOFCOM Commander... with the Order..."No Pictures" he proudly donned the "Tan Wedgie" and saluted our Commanding Officer.

The "Tan Wedgie" being something of a lark (AirForce Humor) and presented on parade showed a few things... Our Commanding Officer had the gall and sense of humor to present it and... the CANSOFCOM Commander had the nutz to wear it on parade.  With this there was a very long loud applause and cheers... something I had not heard in the Military in a long time.  This in itself probably did more positive for the unit, to establish a cohesiveness, a sense of being a part of a team,  to instill pride in the unit and ourselves.

The CANSOFCOM Commander asked if he could keep the "Tan Wedgie" as a memento, to which we could not say no

 

[buzgo]

Was it a pencil case or something? He was showing it off the other day, but wouldn't put it on... 

It was good to see the air force types at the transformation ceremony wearing their tan berets with their 1As, instead of their wedges.

 

[Good2Golf]

Was it a pencil case or something? He was showing it off the other day, but wouldn't put it on... 

It was good to see the air force types at the transformation ceremony wearing their tan berets with their 1As, instead of their wedges.

Man I've wanted to wear my army aviator's beret with 1's for a long time -- just wasn't ever allowed under the "Air Force must show it's own unique spirit program."  'Bout time...too bad it took transferring an entire squadron to a different Command to allow it...

Duey

*edit: spelling*

 

[geo]

Duey,
true - but now that the barn door has been blown off it's hinges......

 

[McG]

I seem to sense a lot of negativity generated towards CANSOFCOM and it's subordinate units having a tan beret, specific capbadge, and possible command badge

No.  They should have a command badge because CANSOFCOM is a separate command.

First of all these are all acroutments that pretty much standard in every other unit

No unit has its own command badge (but this is irrelevant as CANSOFCOM is a command & all units within it will wear the command badge), and most units do not even have their own capbadge & collar dogs (the exception being manoeuvre arm regiments that consist of only one unit).

Every regiment/corps has specific collar dogs, a capbadge, specific shoulder titles...

… and those regiment/corps specific items do not change on postings (or should we re-badge all the Patricias in TOW Coy as Strats).

I have no objection to the berets, but why take away a soldier’s regiment just because he is posted into a specific command? 

[Note: CANSOFCOM is not a unit, it is a command]

 

[Armymedic]

As much as it pained me to do, I had to jack up a couple of my troops (ones who are not allowed to try out) for making fun of a soldier wearing a tan beret with a Log capbadge on it.
I am sure the person they were making fun of was not painwessex, so because of that I think I'm ok with it.

 

[Kev T]

No.  They should have a command badge because CANSOFCOM is a separate command.

I think it's fine if CANSOFCOM has it's own command badge - that only makes sense.

No unit has its own command badge (but this is irrelevant as CANSOFCOM is a command & all units within it will wear the command badge), and most units do not even have their own capbadge & collar dogs (the exception being manoeuvre arm regiments that consist of only one unit).

This is true - slipped up a bit there with the command badge - but won't joining CSOR be technically joining a new "regiment?" You will be part of a new command but at the same time CSOR is now your unit (I'm referring to operators and not tradesmen/support). For example for the duration of a soldier's career in the 22nd SAS one will wear all the bells and whistles of that unit's uniform e.g. capbadge, collardogs, beret.....etc. Even the Airborne had it's own acroutments.

… and those regiment/corps specific items do not change on postings (or should we re-badge all the Patricias in TOW Coy as Strats).

They don't change unless the troops actually change units. I believe the Patricias posted in TOW Coy do not belong to LdSH (RC), PPCLI is their actual unit - they don't belong to the Strats (that isn't their unit), they aren't armoured soldiers, and they would be in a similar uniform situation to tradesmen posted to that unit. If one however joins CSOR as an operator then that is now the soldier's unit for as long as this person remains there. But, for example, EME techs posted to CSOR as techs still belongs to EME; CSOR is not their actual unit as they have not joined as actual operators. CSOR is just where they work. I presume that by becoming an operator it's almost like an occupational transfer and your unit also changes.

I have no objection to the berets, but why take away a soldier’s regiment just because he is posted into a specific command? 
[Note: CANSOFCOM is not a unit, it is a command]

I think the berets are fine and believe that it ain't taking away a soldier's regiment if he chooses to join specifically as an operator or spec ops assaulter thus deciding to now be a member of that unit (CSOR or JTF2). I think support staff keeping their own acroutments is fine; guess the command badge will change as long as they're posted but they'll be able to keep all the other bells and whistles.

Perhaps this whole uniform thing may be getting a little too complicated. I think they will continue to do what has been traditionally done with regards to tradesmen/support staff being posted to infantry or armoured regiments as this is how it has always happened. If this uniform trend continues I think things will be fine. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[painswessex]

As much as it pained me to do, I had to jack up a couple of my troops (ones who are not allowed to try out) for making fun of a soldier wearing a tan beret with a Log capbadge on it.
I am sure the person they were making fun of was not painwessex, so because of that I think I'm ok with it.

I appologised for the posts i made that offended some now come on this is getting out of hand you dont even know me.

 

[Good2Golf]

Okay, so that we're all clear here, is the problem that some folks see:

a)  the beret itself as an indicator of a particular qualification, and others see it as

b) a command headdress that may be augmented by various insignia to indicate qualifications (myself included)?

It sounds like the issue was relatively clear in the CANFORGEN, indicating that tan would be worn by all personnel serving in CANSOFCOM, so why the continuous sniping and jibes about folks not being worthy or not deserving to wear it?  If that's the case, then only those selected and trained should wear it and there woudln't be anybody, infanteers or other combat arms alike (less SOAC-qual'd individuals) who have any right to wear the thing.

Am I missing something here, or are we going to have to continue listening to guys who haven't been selected and trained to a Canadian SF qualification why other folks still should not be wearing a beret?  :

Duey

 

[McG]

They [capbadges] don't change unless the troops actually change units. I believe the Patricias posted in TOW Coy do not belong to LdSH (RC), PPCLI is their actual unit - they don't belong to the Strats (that isn't their unit),

Patricia's posted to the Strats are a part of that unit.  1 PPCLI, 2 PPCLI, and 3 PPCLI are units.  The PPCLI is not a unit; it is a regiment.  Soldier's regimental affiliations do not change on a posting.  Go the NDHQ, CTC, LFWAHQ, etc and you will find Patricias wearing their capbadge, you will find Strats wearing their capbadge, you will find engineers wearing their capbadge, etc.  Even when posted into a unit of another regiment (Patricias in the Strats & most manoeuvre arm RSS positions) a soldier's regiment does not change (I know a Vandoo serving in 1 PPCLI).

So, wear the tan beret but lets leave the regimental affiliations in place (as is the case with a posting to any other unit, formation, or command).  Lets see those tan berets with the badges of the PPCLI, RCR, R22eR, Arty, Engr, Medical, Log, Sigs, Navy, Airforce, Int, and any others that join the command.

 

[Armymedic]

I appologised for the posts i made that offended some now come on this is getting out of hand you dont even know me.

It was meant in jest. I would have jacked them up all the same even if it was you, cause what they did was unacceptable.

 

[Popurhedoff]

Was it a pencil case or something? He was showing it off the other day, but wouldn't put it on... 

It was good to see the air force types at the transformation ceremony wearing their tan berets with their 1As, instead of their wedges.

Pencil case ...no,  I made it from scratch,  some tan naulyga (sp?) hide, some yellow nylon edging material, a cap badge and some old Wedgie buttons...and drilled her together on an industrial sewing machine.

Ya gotta have a sense of humor every once and awhile  ;D  Life can be too dull otherwise.

Cheers
Pop

 

[T Man]

Man I've wanted to wear my army aviator's beret with 1's for a long time -- just wasn't ever allowed under the "Air Force must show it's own unique spirit program."  'Bout time...too bad it took transferring an entire squadron to a different Command to allow it...

Duey

Who said it was allowed? It certainly wasn't but we did it all anyways with Col Barr's sxxt shield.

I think it proved a point. For all other occasions it is back to Wedge with 1As. MTF.