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Syria Superthread [merged]

Russia's submarine arm flexing their muscles with another Syria demonstration:

Defense News

Russian submarine hits targets in Syria
By Christopher P. Cavas 3:58 p.m. EST December 8, 2015

WASHINGTON — Russian media reports that a Russian diesel-electric submarine operating in the Mediterranean Sea on Tuesday launched Kalibr cruise missiles at targets in Syria.

Agence France-Presse, citing Russian news agencies, reported that Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Tuesday the military had launched strikes in Syria for the first time from a submarine stationed in the Mediterranean.

"We used Kalibr cruise missiles from the Rostov-on-Don submarine from the Mediterranean Sea," Shoigu told President Vladimir Putin, Russian news agencies reported.

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Let's see how long even this level of unity lasts ....
Peace talks will be held next month between the Syrian government and a joint team of political and armed rebel groups.

The move was decided after two days of talks at a Saudi hosted opposition conference.

The final hours of the meeting, which excluded Islamic State and Nusra Front fighters, were overshadowed by a protest by another powerful insurgent group, Ahrar al-Sham.

But the talks chairman played down their demonstration and stressed the importance of the first such meeting in two years aimed at ending the bloody civil war. The gathering will discuss moving into a transitional period.

A statement released at the end of the conference also emphasised that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad must leave power ....
Iranian media plays up the exception ....
Rifts have overshadowed a meeting of opposition groups, including militants linked to Daesh terrorists, in the Saudi capital.

The chairman of the conference said on Friday the groups had agreed to meet the Syria government next month for talks on ending nearly five years of conflict.

The announcement came after a major terrorist group, Ahrar al-Sham, withdrew from the meeting, exposing enduring divisions among foreign-backed militants and casting doubt on the significance of any pledges made at the conference.

The group said in a statement that its withdrawal was an objection to a major role given to the National Coordination Body for Democratic Change, a Damascus-based opposition group. The group said the militants operating inside Syria were under-represented at the meeting ...
 
Russian-piloted Hinds joint the fight:


Aviationist

Russian Mi-35M gunship helicopter appears in Syria for the first time
Dec 14 2015 - 0 Comments
By David Cenciotti
The most advanced variant of the Hind helicopter has arrived at Latakia airbase.

New footage filmed by RT at Russian aircraft operating at Hmeymim air base in Latakia, on Friday, proves Moscow has eventually deployed to Syria the most modern variant of the Hind: the Mi-35M.
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Syrian government is accused of using chemical weapons again. 

Damascus 'chemical attack': Syria activists accuse government
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35167849
 
How many lines has Assad crossed now? 3? 4? Obama is going to go down in history as the most impotent president ever.
 
If the Sauds or their friends go into Syria, they will find the Russians and Iranians waiting for them. From a strategic point of view it would be far better to continue arming and fostering ISIS and allowing waves of foreign born radicals to engage while keeping the pressure on the economic front by continuing to pump oil and supressing the global market price. The key weakness in this plan is that ISIS is not easily controllable, and tends to dissipate their strength against peripheral targets (to the Saudi cause) like ethnic cleansing of minority groups, or attacking the Kurds rather than taking on the Quds force or overrunning Russian air bases. Perhaps the Saudis have some ideas to change this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/11/world/middleeast/russian-intervention-in-syrian-war-has-sharply-reduced-us-options.html?_r=1

Russian Intervention in Syrian War Has Sharply Reduced U.S. Option
By DAVID E. SANGERFEB. 10, 2016 

MUNICH — For months now the United States has insisted there can be no military solution to the Syrian civil war, only a political accord between President Bashar al-Assad and the fractured, divided opposition groups that have been trying to topple him.

But after days of intense bombing that could soon put the critical city of Aleppo back into the hands of Mr. Assad’s forces, the Russians may be proving the United States wrong. There may be a military solution, one senior American official conceded Wednesday, “just not our solution,” but that of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.

That is what Secretary of State John Kerry faces as he enters a critical negotiation over a cease-fire and the creation of a “humanitarian corridor” to relieve starving Syrians besieged in more than a dozen cities, most by Mr. Assad’s forces. The Russian military action has changed the shape of a conflict that had effectively been stalemated for years. Suddenly, Mr. Assad and his allies have momentum, and the United States-backed rebels are on the run. If a cease-fire is negotiated here, it will probably come at a moment when Mr. Assad holds more territory, and more sway, than since the outbreak of the uprisings in 2011.

Mr. Kerry enters the negotiations with very little leverage: The Russians have cut off many of the pathways the C.I.A. has been using for a not-very-secret effort to arm rebel groups, according to several current and former officials. Mr. Kerry’s supporters inside the administration say he has been increasingly frustrated by the low level of American military activity, which he views as essential to bolstering his negotiation effort.

Publicly, Mr. Kerry is circumspect about his dilemma. “We are all very, very aware of how critical this moment is,” he said on Tuesday.

His colleagues in the administration, however, fear that a three-month-long effort to begin the political process is near collapse. If it fails, it will force Mr. Kerry and President Obama, once again, to consider their Plan B: a far larger military effort, directed at Mr. Assad. But that is exactly the kind of conflict that Mr. Obama has spent five years trying to avoid, especially when any ground campaign would rely on forces led by a fractious group of opposition leaders that he distrusts.

Without a political solution or a stepped-up military effort, the United States is not only left with little influence over the course of the Syrian civil war, but without a viable strategy to bring all of the warring parties together to fight the Islamic State.

As Mr. Kerry arrived here for another meeting of the 17 nations that agreed last fall on principles for a political solution, several of Washington’s own allies complained bitterly about American policy, saying the United States is absent while the Russians change the nature of the situation on the ground.

Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister, used the announcement of his imminent retirement to poke holes, once again, in the American plan for Syria, which he called “ambiguous” and absent a “very strong commitment.” Throughout his tenure he has been critical of the United States for not being more aggressive, often to the exasperation of State Department and White House officials, who charged that the French grandstand in public but have been cautious to get into a fight that has no clear outcome.

An open breach erupted with the Turks, who charge that the United States is empowering the Kurds, with whom Turkey believes it is in an existential struggle. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the country’s president, denounced Washington for failing to declare a Syrian Kurdish rebel group a terrorist organization.

“Are you on our side or the side of the terrorist P.Y.D. and P.K.K. organizations?” Mr. Erdogan said in an address to provincial officials in the Turkish capital, Ankara, referring to American support for members of the Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union Party, or P.Y.D., in their fight against the Islamic State in Syria, and to the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or P.K.K. The United States considers the Kurds the only truly effective fighters against the Islamic State.

Then Mr. Erdogan — president of a NATO member nation — turned to taunts. “Hey, America,” he said. “Because you never recognized them as a terrorist group, the region has turned into a sea of blood.”

At the core of the American strategic dilemma is that the Russian military adventure, which Mr. Obama dismissed last year as ill-thought-out muscle flexing, has been surprising effective in helping Mr. Assad reclaim the central cities he needs to hold power, at least in a rump-state version of Syria.

Testifying on Capitol Hill on Tuesday, the director of national intelligence, James R. Clapper, offered a sobering picture of Russia’s success, even if it proves a temporary one.

“Putin is the first leader since Stalin to expand Russia’s territory,” he told a Senate committee. In Russia’s first major overseas military effort since its humiliation in Afghanistan 35 years ago, he said, “Its interventions demonstrate the improvements in Russian military capabilities and the Kremlin’s confidence in using them.”

While he predicted Mr. Putin would be challenged to afford the commitment over the long term, especially at a moment of falling oil prices, he offered a bleak assessment for Washington. “In Syria,” he said, “pro-regime forces have the initiative, having made some strategic gains near Aleppo and Latakia in the north, as well as in southern Syria.” While Mr. Assad has “manpower shortages,” he said, at least his forces were unified.

“The opposition has less equipment and firepower and its groups lack unity,” he told the senators. “They sometimes have competing battlefield interests and fight among themselves.”

Mr. Obama has been cautious, rejecting a plan, for example, from then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the C.I.A. director at the time, David H. Petraeus, to start a large-scale arming of the rebel groups. Instead, the effort has been far more modest, and because even that has been ostensibly secret — though among the worst-kept secrets in Washington — it creates an impression that all the military momentum is on Mr. Putin’s side.

Battle maps from the Institute for the Study of War show, in fact, that it is: The Russians, with Iranian help on the ground, appear to be handing Mr. Assad enough key cities that his government can hang on.

Current and former administration officials say they see a parallel to Mr. Putin’s strategy in Ukraine: He keeps his foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, negotiating cease-fires and slow-progressing political accords, while making inroads on the battlefield.

Those inroads have limited Mr. Obama’s options. For example the much discussed “no-fly zone” would now be far harder to enforce, since Russian jets are flying in that airspace.

While the official position of the United States remains that Mr. Assad must leave office, Mr. Kerry and his aides will not say when he must leave, or whether he could participate in the process of selecting a new government. Their talk about finding a quiet exile for the Syrian leader has largely ceased.

As a result, it is hard to discern now what kind of end for Syria is now envisioned by the administration. The political document adopted in Vienna three months ago calls for a single, unified state. That seems increasingly unlikely. A fractured nation — part Alawite, part Sunni, part Kurd — is often discussed, but never officially.

Mr. Kerry is turning to the more immediate questions of cease-fire and humanitarian access. That did not impress Abu Youssef, whose farm in Aleppo Province has been hosting dozens of Syrians displaced by the recent fighting nearby. He asked to be identified only by a nickname for his safety.

“Yes, they will have a cease-fire, but after Aleppo it is finished,” he said in an online chat. “They will close off all of Aleppo, destroy the whole area, and then the Russians will negotiate a cease-fire,” he added. “After winning victory they will negotiate.”

Anne Barnard contributed reporting from Gaziantep, Turkey, Hwaida Saad from Beirut, Lebanon,  and Somini Sengupta from the United Nations.
 
Putin is intent on heading off a land operation inside Syria,so he has dispatched a new missile cruiser to support Assad and his allies.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-sends-brand-cruise-missile-ship-syria-report-103637167.html

 
tomahawk6 said:
Putin is intent on heading off a land operation inside Syria,so he has dispatched a new missile cruiser to support Assad and his allies.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-sends-brand-cruise-missile-ship-syria-report-103637167.html 

Yahoo has the wrong photo in its article which shows a Slava class missile cruiser, not the Zeleny Dol which is a Buyan-M class missile corvette.

Wiki article on the 3M-54 Klub Kalibr multi-role cruise missile.

The Zeleny Dol will also be accompanied by a minesweeper.
 
As if Putin will just stop just because Obama and Kerry asked:

Defense News

White House: Obama Urges Putin To End Airstrikes Against Syrian Opposition
Agence France-Presse 4:36 p.m. EST February 14, 2016

RANCHO MIRAGE, United States — US President Barack Obama has urged his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to end airstrikes against Syrian opposition forces, the White House said Sunday.

In a phone call with Putin on Saturday, Obama stressed the need to quickly get humanitarian aid to besieged areas and initiating the cessation of hostilities across the war-wracked country, it said.

“In particular, President Obama emphasized the importance now of Russia playing a constructive role by ceasing its air campaign against moderate opposition forces in Syria.”

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The Saudis, Turks and other Sunni/Gulf states mulling a land invasion of Syria?

Defense News

Saudi, Turkish Forces Prep for Potential Air, Land Invasion of Syria
By Awad Mustafa and Burak Ege Bekdil, Defense News 11:04 a.m. EST February 15, 2016

Originally published Feb. 13 at 3:40 p.m. ET; updated with more details from Turkish officials Feb. 15 at 11:05 a.m. ET.

DUBAI and ANKARA — Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said Feb. 13 that Turkey and Saudi Arabia may join forces for ground operations against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant group (ISIL) in Syria.

Although a senior Saudi military official said the Royal Saudi Air Force deployed fighter jets to the Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, Turkish officials say the deployment will take place in the coming weeks.

Brigadier Gen. Ahmed Al-Assiri, consultant to Saudi Minister of Defense Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, confirmed to Saudi-owned news station Al-Arabiya the arrival of Saudi Air Force jets at the Turkish base.

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S.M.A. said:
The Saudis, Turks and other Sunni/Gulf states mulling a land invasion of Syria?

Defense News

I wonder if an invasion from Turkish territory has as much to do with keeping Syrian territory out of Kurdish hands as it does taking territory out of ISIL's hands.
 
NATO member attacks Russian forces in Syria to save the anti-Assad forces.How is that going to pan out ?
 
Part of me wouldn't be sad to see them get their lights punched out if they did invade.
 
tomahawk6 said:
NATO member attacks Russian forces in Syria to save the anti-Assad forces.How is that going to pan out ?

Even more to the point, does Article 5 get invoked when the NATO member is, de facto, invading another country?
 
One might think that if the NAC hasn't approved such an invasion, the member nation might risk waiving it's right to Article 5 protection:support? ???

Regards
G2G
 
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