SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)

[Nuggs]

I think we should build a wall and make America pay for it

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[PuckChaser]

I think we should build a wall and make America pay for it

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#TrudeauWall2017

 

[George Wallace]

What exactly could the police have done differently in that exchange?  I see no way, short of erecting a barrier, of changing that.

Was that NOT the whole point of the article?  They are hamstrung by our Laws and the loopholes in enforcing them.  The article is aimed at the Government getting off their asses and doing something before the matter worsens.

 

[jmt18325]

Was that NOT the whole point of the article?  They are hamstrung by our Laws and the loopholes in enforcing them.  The article is aimed at the Government getting off their asses and doing something before the matter worsens.

But what could be done differently?  Canadians can't enforce the law on the US side of the border, the sage third country agreement only applies to actual border crossings, and once they are in Canada, they can only be arrested.  Once they say the word asylum, we have to process their claim.  So, we can't send them back to the US, and even when their claim is done, in most cases, we can't send them home.  I'm not sure the solution.

Further - it was predicted there would be a big spike with warmer weather.  That hasn't happened.  I think there is less actual danger than there is fear. 

 

[PuckChaser]

But what could be done differently?  Canadians can't enforce the law on the US side of the border, the sage third country agreement only applies to actual border crossings, and once they are in Canada, they can only be arrested.  Once they say the word asylum, we have to process their claim.  So, we can't send them back to the US, and even when their claim is done, in most cases, we can't send them home.  I'm not sure the solution.

Further - it was predicted there would be a big spike with warmer weather.  That hasn't happened.  I think there is less actual danger than there is fear.

You just answered your own question. Expedite an amendment to Third Safe Country that bars any applications for refugee status unless they are made at a legal border crossing (that is not with the US). Immediately stops the problem. You should not be able to claim asylum when arriving from the US, including those useless deserters who we've allowed to hide in Canada for years because they wanted a free education, not war when they joined the military.

 

[jmt18325]

If that's possible, I'd be in favour of that.

 

[George Wallace]

If that's possible, I'd be in favour of that.

The article seriously points out the fact that our Government has done NOTHING to solve the problem; in fact not paying attention to it.  It is time, as I said already, for the Government to get off their ass and address this problem.  PuckChaser has provided one such solution.  Now the Government of Canada must get to work and make it so.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Good luck with getting the present PM to do anything that jepoardizes selfie opportunities and looking pretty.

 

[Stoker]

I don't buy that its that bad in the US for them to cross the border like that. Are there any numbers on how many have crossed in this manner?

 

[George Wallace]

With the surge of millions into Europe, that still continues, I can see this as the same thing, but on a smaller scale.  Opportunists looking for the handouts that Western nations have through their Social Programs.  It would appear that the American Social Programs, Health and Dental Care, etc. are not as good as ours. 

 

[YZT580]

Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

 

[Stoker]

Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

Unfortunately that's not in accordance with Canada's new "Sunny Ways" and very uncanadian.

 

[jmt18325]

Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

I don't think that's possible.  We need an agreement whereby the US takes them back.  Once they're on our side of the border, we can't send them back.  That's why we'd need to modify the safe third country agreement.

 

[Jed]

I don't think that's possible.  We need an agreement whereby the US takes them back.  Once they're on our side of the border, we can't send them back.  That's why we'd need to modify the safe third country agreement.

Why? 
just do it. What is the harm in that? At least find out if the US Customs officials are cooperative.

 

[jmt18325]

Why? 
just do it. What is the harm in that? At least find out if the US Customs officials are cooperative.

If they're willing take them back, fine.  Somehow, I doubt it. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If they're willing take them back, fine.  Somehow, I doubt it.

I'd have to agree with JMT here;  if they aren't stopping them from leaving/crossing, they are likely just as happy to see them go.  If they aren't US citizens I'd hazard a guess they have a snowballs chance in H-E double hockey sticks of getting back into the US once their 2nd foot crosses over.

 

[jmt18325]

I'd have to agree with JMT here;  if they aren't stopping them from leaving/crossing, they are likely just as happy to see them go.  If they aren't US citizens I'd hazard a guess they have a snowballs chance in H-E double hockey sticks of getting back into the US once their 2nd foot crosses over.

For the same reason, I feel that they'd be unwilling to amend the safe third country agreement.  The best option, IMO, is to withdraw from the safe third country agreement.  Let these would be asylum applicants apply through the normal channels at CBSA staffed border crossing points.

 

[PuckChaser]

If we pull out, it adds a whole whack of issues to the US's border security problem. The reason they're not stopping people in rural Manitoba/Quebec is because a majority of the manpower is down south solving the masses of people trying to cross from Mexico/Cuba.

You can't just throw your arms up and pretend we're in this by ourselves. There's a lot of agreements we can leverage to get the US on border with amendments to Third Safe Country. The problem is, there's no political will/fortitude to do something about it, until one of those people crossing the border kills someone.

 

[jmt18325]

If we pull out, it adds a whole whack of issues to the US's border security problem. The reason they're not stopping people in rural Manitoba/Quebec is because a majority of the manpower is down south solving the masses of people trying to cross from Mexico/Cuba.

You can't just throw your arms up and pretend we're in this by ourselves. There's a lot of agreements we can leverage to get the US on border with amendments to Third Safe Country. The problem is, there's no political will/fortitude to do something about it, until one of those people crossing the border kills someone.

That's because the problem is minor at the moment.  Without US cooperation, we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment.  The US could solve this by A ) stopping them on their side, or, B ) agreeing to amend the safe third country agreement.  Whether they've been asked about that second piece - I have no idea.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... It would appear that the American Social Programs, Health and Dental Care, etc. are not as good as ours.

If that was the case, why are we seeing what appears to be a surge?  Haven't our programs been different than theirs in the same general ways for a looooooong time now?  Why do you think we're seeing more of this now?

... we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment ...

The bit in yellow -- if the rules on the U.S. side allowed them to take them back AND the rules on the Canadian side allowed them to just turn them around without due process, this wouldn't be happening.