Subsidized Education - ROTP

[Corey Darling]

I was told that although i might be able to transfer my credits over to RMC, i would have to start from year one. Im currently in second year, and taking english and computer science over again really didnt appeal to me lol. Although I'm sure my grades would have been pretty good So I've opted for civey university to get the degree out of the way. Cheaper for the government that way also  ;D

 

[checkmate_ca]

This is what I always wonder: Why do people still feel the need to skip class when they get to post secondary? Maybe I'm cynical because I had to pay for my first year, but in general post secondary is there for people who want to be there. That means people shouldn't be skipping because the classes are actually interesting right?

Cause sometimes the lecture isn't really useful and I learn nothing from them, even if I go I wouldn't get much out of it so why go and waste time.

 

[checkmate_ca]

I was told that although i might be able to transfer my credits over to RMC, i would have to start from year one. Im currently in second year, and taking english and computer science over again really didnt appeal to me lol. Although I'm sure my grades would have been pretty good So I've opted for civey university to get the degree out of the way. Cheaper for the government that way also  ;D

yea i am planning to reject my RMC offer and stay with U of T cause repeating first year doesn't sound that appealing either.

 

[Lumber]

Cause sometimes the lecture isn't really useful and I learn nothing from them, even if I go I wouldn't get much out of it so why go and waste time.

Amen.

Many (not a majority) of my lectures amount to no more than the prof. reading out a power point presentation. Sometimes the prof elaborates or goes into details not given in the power point, but often you could learn just as much by printing off the slides and reading them yourself. Since I can read the slides faster than the prof can give a power point presentation, not going to class can be more economical use of ones time.

That being said, I wouldn't skip class to go back to my room to read the slides, so it's better for me to just go to class.

Besides, most of my profs do a great job of elaborating on the points in the presentation, and write things on the board that aren't provided in the notes.

...in general post secondary is there for people who want to be there. That means people shouldn't be skipping because the classes are actually interesting right?

True, but as adults we should be able to decide what is the best use of our time.

One teacher told my class this year, "There are many legitimate reasons to be absent from class, but if you skip class to go study for an exam in some other course, that just won't fly. This course is MANDATORY!"

I'm sorry, that's just BS.

If I am passing course A with flying colours, and have no doubt that I will pass, but in course B I am honestly worried about not passing, then skipping the course A to go study for an exam in B is just good sense!

I actually have a prof., by the way, who is a military prof and flat out did not want to take attendance, but the mil wing wouldn't let him/her.

 

[infamous_p]

For the most part, the majority of Civvie-U professors (I don't know about military professors) post their notes/lecture slides online after the class... so if you find that it may be a better use of your time to skip one class to say, work on an assignment for another (as I've found I've had to do on more than one occasion), that would be a fair reason to skip class - in my opinion.

There are those who skip class because they are lazy, want to sleep, just plain don't feel like going, etc., and there are others who skip class scurrying around desperately trying to finish a thousand other things for his or her other classes. The former REALLY bugs me (as I'm sure other Civvie-U students can attest to) when it comes to the professor posting his or her lecture notes. Those who are lazy or couldn't be bothered are, in this sense, given the same opportunities for staying caught up than those who cannot attend the class for legitimate reasons. Not much you can do about that, though.

 

[Corey Darling]

yea i am planning to reject my RMC offer and stay with U of T cause repeating first year doesn't sound that appealing either.

I would jump at the chance for RMC personally.. If I could simply transfer over from where I'm at now, and if I wasn't in a long term relationship, with a new car im trying to pay off....

The flexibility of civey at that point is why I've chosen that route. Otherwise, I'd be all over RMC. Its unfortunate, because I'd get alot more out of RMC then I ever will out of Uvic.

Oh well  :

The real kicker is that 4 years ago when i started this process, the recruiter said I could start Civey university and transfer right into RMC the following year if I turned down the current job offer - which I did - didn't get pilot due to vision. So, i kept trying every year for 3 more years, and the finally changed the standards but now its too late to go to RMC.

 

[George Wallace]

Amen.

Many (not a majority) of my lectures amount to no more than the prof. reading out a power point presentation. Sometimes the prof elaborates or goes into details not given in the power point, but often you could learn just as much by printing off the slides and reading them yourself. Since I can read the slides faster than the prof can give a power point presentation, not going to class can be more economical use of ones time.

That being said, I wouldn't skip class to go back to my room to read the slides, so it's better for me to just go to class.

Besides, most of my profs do a great job of elaborating on the points in the presentation, and write things on the board that aren't provided in the notes.

True, but as adults we should be able to decide what is the best use of our time.

One teacher told my class this year, "There are many legitimate reasons to be absent from class, but if you skip class to go study for an exam in some other course, that just won't fly. This course is MANDATORY!"

I'm sorry, that's just BS.

If I am passing course A with flying colours, and have no doubt that I will pass, but in course B I am honestly worried about not passing, then skipping the course A to go study for an exam in B is just good sense!

I actually have a prof., by the way, who is a military prof and flat out did not want to take attendance, but the mil wing wouldn't let him/her.

So?  After reading this.  I get the distinct impression that you feel that just the mere fact that you have registered for a Crse, means that you should pass it.  Forget all the attending lectures and participation in class discussions, you just need the PowerPoint Slides to study and you are good to go.  Frankly, I think that this attitude is going to cause you serious problems in the future, beginning with a pisspoor work ethic.  You do realize that you do have to do some work in order to earn your wages; right?  A job isn't just a paycheque; it actually requires some labour.

 

[Lumber]

So?  After reading this.  I get the distinct impression that you feel that just the mere fact that you have registered for a Crse, means that you should pass it.  Forget all the attending lectures and participation in class discussions, you just need the PowerPoint Slides to study and you are good to go.  Frankly, I think that this attitude is going to cause you serious problems in the future, beginning with a pisspoor work ethic.  You do realize that you do have to do some work in order to earn your wages; right?  A job isn't just a paycheque; it actually requires some labour.

Don't read too much into it, now!

I didn't say I skip class, just that you shouldn't be blinded by the mentality that every class has some intrinsic value. We should be mature enough to know that if we do skip a class, that it had better be for a good reason and that you better be prepared to make up for it (i.e. getting the notes, consulting with classmates and/or the prof). The point of contention is on just what a "good reason" is. As infamous_p says, "there are others who skip class scurrying around desperately trying to finish a thousand other things for his or her other classes." That is not a "legitimate" reason as per the college orders, but I feel it's completely acceptable, maybe you disagree?

As for having a poor work ethic, I respect your opinion that that would cause a person to have trouble in the future, because I totally agree. But you don't know me very well, I have a very good work ethic. Sure, that me talking and I'm obviously biased, but you don't know me enough to say other wise. I go to lectures and discussions, and if I don't its for a good reason. I get seriously "bugged" to use infamous_p's term, at those who skip because they are lazy, want to sleep, just plain don't feel like going, and boy are there a lot of those around here. I take notes in all those lectures and am one of the only people that actually participates in class discussions; most people, my friends included, won't speak up even if they have an answer to a teachers questions, because according to them, they just don't care enough. I do.

 

[checkmate_ca]

I would jump at the chance for RMC personally.. If I could simply transfer over from where I'm at now, and if I wasn't in a long term relationship, with a new car im trying to pay off....

The flexibility of civey at that point is why I've chosen that route. Otherwise, I'd be all over RMC. Its unfortunate, because I'd get alot more out of RMC then I ever will out of Uvic.

Oh well  :

The real kicker is that 4 years ago when i started this process, the recruiter said I could start Civey university and transfer right into RMC the following year if I turned down the current job offer - which I did - didn't get pilot due to vision. So, i kept trying every year for 3 more years, and the finally changed the standards but now its too late to go to RMC.

I would go RMC if I could just transfer over

 

[George Wallace]

Your post was just in addition to several others that were advocating skipping classes.  Perhaps your work ethic is good, but several others are very lacking as witnessed in their posts.  It makes many Serving Members and many members of the Press who read these comments wonder why the heck the CF and Canadian Government should pay a lazy sluff artist to go to RMC and then reward him with a Commission and tenure in the CF as an officer?  What is being posted here reflects very poorly on RMC, the Professors at RMC and some of the people selected to attend RMC.  This is perhaps the decline of the Officer Corps as a "Class" and raises questions as to why we even need them, if we have more highly trained and motivated personnel in the NCM ranks, who are more proficient at their jobs and in leadership.  I have Cpls working in my Trade who hold Masters and PhDs.  I often ask a young first year BA student, why we should accept them as an officer cadet, when we have Cpls with much higher educations.  There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst this generation that is just entering the Universities and Job Force, that they can start immediately at the Top and not have to put any effort into what they do.  It is rampant and will cause us to see a great deal of problems in the very near future.

 

[checkmate_ca]

Your post was just in addition to several others that were advocating skipping classes.  Perhaps your work ethic is good, but several others are very lacking as witnessed in their posts.  It makes many Serving Members and many members of the Press who read these comments wonder why the heck the CF and Canadian Government should pay a lazy sluff artist to go to RMC and then reward him with a Commission and tenure in the CF as an officer?  What is being posted here reflects very poorly on RMC, the Professors at RMC and some of the people selected to attend RMC.  This is perhaps the decline of the Officer Corps as a "Class" and raises questions as to why we even need them, if we have more highly trained and motivated personnel in the NCM ranks, who are more proficient at their jobs and in leadership.  I have Cpls working in my Trade who hold Masters and PhDs.  I often ask a young first year BA student, why we should accept them as an officer cadet, when we have Cpls with much higher educations.  There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst this generation that is just entering the Universities and Job Force, that they can start immediately at the Top and not have to put any effort into what they do.  It is rampant and will cause us to see a great deal of problems in the very near future.

Can I ask, a PhD in what field? And what trade are you in? I don't know I just realize in your post you mention lazy artist and BA student. I have to say being a first year engineering student I take more course then the average first year arts student.

 

[Lumber]

Your post was just in addition to several others that were advocating skipping classes.  Perhaps your work ethic is good, but several others are very lacking as witnessed in their posts.  It makes many Serving Members and many members of the Press who read these comments wonder why the heck the CF and Canadian Government should pay a lazy sluff artist to go to RMC and then reward him with a Commission and tenure in the CF as an officer?  What is being posted here reflects very poorly on RMC, the Professors at RMC and some of the people selected to attend RMC.  This is perhaps the decline of the Officer Corps as a "Class" and raises questions as to why we even need them, if we have more highly trained and motivated personnel in the NCM ranks, who are more proficient at their jobs and in leadership.  I have Cpls working in my Trade who hold Masters and PhDs.  I often ask a young first year BA student, why we should accept them as an officer cadet, when we have Cpls with much higher educations.  There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst this generation that is just entering the Universities and Job Force, that they can start immediately at the Top and not have to put any effort into what they do.  It is rampant and will cause us to see a great deal of problems in the very near future.

There are always slackers. The distinction was made, by, once again, infamous_p, that there are those who skip because the are lazy (slackers), and those with more legitimate reason. Again, those reasons are acceptable in the eyes of some of us, but to the institution, "class is mandatory, no ifs and/or buts." Here's something you may find highly debateable: school is not the same as work. Work ethic often translates from one to the other. A slacker in school can translate to a slacker on the job. I firmly believe that your job is completely mandatory (no ifs and/or buts), but I believe that as firmly that I believe school is the exact opposite. For some people school comes naturally; they learn very quickly and don't need to work at it as hard to get the education (note* education and a degree are two different things. You can BS your way to a degree without having learned anything). Those with the strong work ethic, whether they chose to skip or not, will (should) make good Officers and well me a credit to the CF and to RMC.

"I often ask a young first year BA student, why we should accept them as an officer cadet, when we have Cpls with much higher educations."

A degree does not an officer make. There are officers without any degrees at all. An officer has intrinsic qualities of leadership, charisma, etc. I'm sure there are many educated NCMs who would make great Officers, but not simply because they have degrees, but then the whole issue of Officers requiring a degree is a whole other discussion, and lets NOT go there!

 

[infamous_p]

Can I ask, a PhD in what field? And what trade are you in? I don't know I just realize in your post you mention lazy artist and BA student. I have to say being a first year engineering student I take more course then the average first year arts student.

Your third and fourth sentence here really did not make much sense - what's the point you are trying to make here? Don't take my tone the wrong way here, I was just very confused by your two last sentences.

However, you cannot compare being a "first year engineering student" to a "first year arts student" - you might as well be comparing apples and oranges; both degrees require very, VERY different types of work. An unfortunate number of people tend to "look down" on arts students as, for whatever reason, arts is considered to be an "easy" degree program (defined as "easy" by some mysterious, invisible physical entity). In comparison to one another, engineering appeals to more of a mathematical, scientific, and problem-solving oriented population, while arts programs present students with an overwhelming amount of reading, interpretation, memorization, and verbal/written communication (hence people being either left-brained or right-brained). Now, there are many arts students out there who would look at a math equation and absolutely panic (as I would myself). On the other hand, there are many engineering students who would be assigned an essay on the Sociological Theory of Ervin Goffman and do the same - absolutely panic. Like I said - you cannot compare apples and oranges, girls and boys, or hot and cold. It all depends on the individual skill set. This mindset that exists all too predominantly among students everywhere that "such degree program is harder than such and such degree program" gets quite tiring.

Judging from the third and fourth sentences of your post (again, like I said, I was confused by them but going off of what it <i><b>sounds</i></b> like you are saying) you are putting yourself, as an engineering student, essentially <i>above</i> an arts student. That is precisely the attitude that should not and cannot exist within a good officer. As Mr. Wallace was saying, there are a large number of people out there who unfortunately (due to their degree, level of education, home environment, the way they were raised, etc.) believe they should, under all circumstances, "start at the top". This statement made by you appears to <i>me</i> like this type of attitude.

Correct me if I am way out of left field here regarding what you were trying to say.

 

[George Wallace]

Lumber

You have to remember, and some others have to realize, what kind of Institution you are in.  Remember your motto.  You are in a Military Institution and being trained and educated to be in the Military.  In the Military it is a chargable offence to be AWOL.  You are in essence in a military training establishment and learning to be part of the military.  Skipping classes, as some feel is a right to do, goes against the training that the military is trying to instill in you, and not what they are paying you for.  What is to say that said students, habitually skipping classes at RMC, are not going to conduct themselves in the exact same manner when posted to a CF Base, Unit or Installation?

This reflects on the individuals lack to fully analyse a problem and a incomplete thought process in those who feel that skipping classes really is nothing to fret about.  Everything leads to something further down the road, and this development of a lack of responsibility on some students parts is not a characteristic we want in officers in the CF.

 

[George Wallace]

Can I ask, a PhD in what field? And what trade are you in? I don't know I just realize in your post you mention lazy artist and BA student. I have to say being a first year engineering student I take more course then the average first year arts student.

Lazy sluff artist could refer to anyone.  It is not refering to a BA. 

 

[dwalter]

Can I ask, a PhD in what field? And what trade are you in? I don't know I just realize in your post you mention lazy artist and BA student. I have to say being a first year engineering student I take more course then the average first year arts student.

Now we shouldn't really be turning this into a debate about which degrees do more work. I am in arts, and I don't appreciate it when people assume we do less work. Engineers and Science students end up taking courses that are intensive in math, and communication of scientific ideas, but arts courses can have just as much work. We write essays on a weekly basis remember!

Also generally everyone takes the same amount of courses... At least where I go to university it doesn't matter what faculty you are in, you can't take more than 34 credits in one year. 30 credits is a full course load, and the extra 4 are for people who take labs in addition to their normal courses. I am taking 29 credits, and some of the engineers I know are taking between 28 and 32. We all roughly take the same amount of courses.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter what faculty you belong to, the fact is that there are slackers in each one. Even if a prof posts his or her notes online, if you think that is enough, you might as well do a distance education. I guess it depends on learning style too. Some people can do fine just reading, but personally I need to hear it as well to get the most out of a topic. Technically seminars are even better, being able to talk about it.

 

[Wookilar]

To get back on track a little here....

Checkmate: Do not confuse which "year" you are in at RMC and the courses you will be doing. If you get a transfer credit for 1st year Calc, you will not do 1st year Calc again, same with the rest (that's IF you get a transfer credit). RMC does require more, and different, core courses than most university's do.

Myself for example: I was a 1st year, then a 2nd year, then a 4th year. Yes, I am a UT, not an RO, but there are many RO's at RMC that do not fit into the standard 4 year mold either. My advice, do a little more homework and examine the options before you dismiss the offer out of hand.

Wook

 

[airman87]

The best thing to do IMO would be to contact the registrar at RMC or ask the CFRC to, and ask which credits you may transfer.

My advice, do a little more homework and examine the options before you dismiss the offer out of hand.

Agreed. Ask the CFRC staff, that's what they're there for.

 

[checkmate_ca]

Can someone tell me an average day for a first year student at RMC, like your timetable and how much free time you get. How many courses do you take in first year?

 

[infamous_p]

Can someone tell me an average day for a first year student at RMC, like your timetable and how much free time you get. How many courses do you take in first year?

Click <a href="http://www.rmc.ca/military/ji/ji_e.html#life"><b><i>here</b></i></a> and read through.

...or <a href="http://www.rmc.ca"><b><i>here</b></i></a>.